First Post! Hardware Selection, Sonar X2 Producer, Seven Questions, Please & Much Thanks

Hello Cakewalkers!  This is my first post and I am very pleased to be part of the Cakewalk family (again).
 
I last used Cakewalk eons ago as a MIDI editor for my backing tracks.  I used to earn my living doing a fulltime high-tech (for the time) solo act playing guitar, keyboards and singing. At the end of my fulltime musical endeavours, I was using a Casio PG380, Korg M1, Yamaha QX1, Alesis HR16, AKG headset, Rockman XPR, three Sampson wirelesses, QSC power, EV mains, playing the nicer pubs, restaurants and the like.  I started the high-tech aspect of my solo career with a brand new (for the time) Roland TR-606 & TB-303.
 
I'm 58 now and feel like building a hobby studio given there are no consequential venues in the Vancouver British Columbia area, and thus I would hardly even have my transportation costs covered at many of the venues that would hire me.  I have no plans for recording live bands, just myself (singer / guitarist / keyboard player) and lots of toys. I have no aspirations about becoming rich and famous (and in fact never have had any).  I am pleased that there was a period of time in my life that music was my source of income, and I am satisfied with my fulltime teaching position in an unrelated field (I would like my wife to stop being so crabby, but we can dialogue on spousal dynamics another day).
 
Yep, to the point of the matter at hand.
 
I recently bought Sonar X2 Producer (might upgrade to X3) and I am trying to decide how best to go about using a computer with it. As discussed, I am setting up a hobby studio and have no plans for recording live bands, just myself (singer / guitarist / keyboard player) and lots of toys.
 
I have a laptop I could use. I am not committed to using it, but it would be nice for portability and cost reasons, however:
a) it does not have a 7200 RPM HD (it's 5400 RPM), so I assume disk access times may be compromised.
b) it does not have a second HD for audio files, so I assume disk access times may be compromised.
c) it does not have an SSD, so I assume disk access times may be compromised.
d) it does not have a dual head video card, so I assume I can't run dual 24 inch LCD monitors.
e) it does not have a dedicated video card (not 100% sure how can I tell?), so I assume processor cycles would be compromised.
f) it does not have an 1920x1080 LCD, so I assume viewing would be compromised.
g) it does not have a 17.3" LCD, so I assume viewing would be compromised.
 
ASUS Laptop Model R500A
15.6" LCD
Intel Core i7-3630QM
1TB HDD 5400
8GB RAM
Windows 8
USB 2 & 3
Video 1377x768
 
Questions:
 
1) Am I correct in my assumptions a) through to g) above?
 
2) How well suited is Sonar X2 Producer for mixing, editing, controlling with no external hardware-based control surfaces and no external hardware-based mixers (expect of course for an 88 key MIDI keyboard controller)?
 
3) I'm torn between the Roland Octa-Capture and the newer Focusrite 18i20.  It would be nice to have the Roland's reverb and compression for zero latency monitoring, four monitor sends, digitally controlled preamps and auto-levelling, however it would be also be nice to have two separate headphone outputs, (the presumably nicer) Focusite preamps plus newer gear (as is the case with the 18i20) usually means better gear in the fast moving world of digital audio plus the Focusite is $100 less than the Roland. I would be using this for my hobby studio and I like the idea of flexible routing and numerous I/O's, but I have no plans for recording live bands, just myself (singer / guitarist/ keyboard player) and lots of toys which I would rather leave plugged in at all times. Comments on the Roland Octa-Capture versus the newer Focusrite 18i20?
 
4) I have run LatencyMon Home Edition Version 5 a number of times and by shutting down of a number of Windows Services etc, LatencyMon informs me that my laptop will do the job.  Is this a reasonably reliable starting point for my ASUS laptop?
 
5) Most of what I've read suggests that Sonar X2 Producer really comes alive with 1920x1080 dual 24" LCD's.  Now I am sure Sonar X2 Producer can function with less resolution and less video real-estate, but does what I've read have merit in the light of the fact that I have no intention of mixing, editing, controlling Sonar X2 Producer on external hardware-based control surfaces or external hardware-based mixers (expect of course for an 88 key MIDI keyboard controller)?
 
6) If I was to get a higher-end laptop such as the Cakewalk recommended HP EliteBook units, would the LCD on a 17.3" HP EliteBook basically negate the benefits of having dual 24 inch LCD monitors (assuming I cannot run dual 24 inch LCD monitors on a 17.3" HP EliteBook)?  Or would having dual 24 inch LCD monitors still be substantially easier than having the single LCD on a 17.3" HP EliteBook (assuming I can run dual 24 inch LCD monitors on a 17.3" HP EliteBook) given I have no intention of mixing, editing, controlling Sonar X2 Producer on external hardware-based control surfaces or external hardware-based mixers (expect of course for an 88 key MIDI keyboard controller)?
 
7) I am somewhat reluctant to buy a desktop for the following two reasons, one I enjoy the mobility that a laptop allows such as working on Sonar X2 Producer with headphones in the living room, and two, once a desktop has outlived it's usefulness as a DAW, it can't be easily used for casual use and becomes a boat anchor to me (I have too many old desktops in the basement as it is). Thus my question is, would it be the case that the desktop plus the dual 24 inch LCD monitors' total cost would be about the same as a similarly spec'd 17.3" HP EliteBook?  If so, and if I cannot use dual 24" monitors with a similarly spec'd 17.3" HP EliteBook, I understandably might opt for the desktop. Comments?
 
Very much thanks for you kindness!

Hello cparmerlee, thank you kindly for your input and I'm sure you mean well but I would very much like this thread to stay focused on the seven questions presented.  However to respond in kind to your text:
 
Yes, I know people use laptops with music software, I have been doing so for many years.  Yes, I know I can get a fast enough notebook with a 17.3" monitor, I've already said so as per the Cakewalk recommended HP EliteBooks.  As to a second monitor, I was addressing a dual head video card (which is rare on a laptop) versus a laptop VGA output via Win 8 extended desktop, perhaps I should have been clearer in that regard.  Yes I know that doing everything in the box has merit from a computer hardware perspective, however I was asking in the context of the software Sonar X2 Producer.  Lastly, I was not asking if I should start with using my ASUS laptop, I was asking if I was correct in my assumptions a) through to g); as mentioned in my first post, I started many years ago.
 
All the best,
Chum

Thank you so much MachineClaw, I appreciate your succinctness!
 
1) Question, is there good reason to have a dual head video card (which is rare on a laptop) versus using the VGA output via Win 8 extended desktop?
 
2) Question, can you list your hardware for your desktop PC running Sonar Producer X2/X3?
 
3) Win 7 or Win 8?
 
My responses:
1. Well it's not the end of the world as did not buy the ASUS lappy for music purposes primarily.
2. Wonderful to hear you say that, it confirms my understanding as well.
3. Interesting, and worthy of further consideration.
4. Yep, that confirms my expectations.
5. OK.
6) I'll go big.
7) Since I can get a desktop that specs better than a lappy and is more easily upgradeable for similar cash that's a worthy point.
 
As to your view that my ASUS lappy will overheat, it has something called "Ice Cool".  I have worked it hard with all power saving features off and all systems maxed, and the damn thing hardly gets warm.  Very unlike any other laptop I've ever owned.
 
Your point that the ASUS lappy will become an annoying / limiting factor is likely quite true, and I appreciate you confirming that for me.
 
I'm considering X3 Producer mostly because of the integration of Melodyne Essential and Addictive Drums so your further views are welcome.
 
Very much thanks for your kindness!

Hi Mudgel,
 
Sounds interesting and I may do that.  There is the downside in that shipping from the US to Canada is exorbitantly expensive. There is a first class computer chain here called NCIX so a parts list alone might do the trick and then let NCIX do the build.

I have just contacted Jim.  I live near Vancouver B.C. Canada and I am considering the Platinum Studio DAW because on further investigation the only charge I would incur is FedEx ground and I can broker the unit myself thus saving that fee plus now with NAFTA there is no more duty on computers.  The question that remains is what support, BIOS tweaks, install services, etc. does Jim provide with the Platinum Studio DAW that would make any cost deferential in NCIX's favor become inconsequential?
 
Stay tuned and very much obliged for your recommendation, it looks promising and to be honest I sometimes get tired of fiddling with computers simply to get them to run optimally for any given purpose.

I only took a quick glance at all that but two things that immediately come to mind...
 
You could swap out the HDD for a 7200 or 10,000RPM rather easily (there are plenty of tuts on youtube and I'm sure Newegg has some tuts and recommendations as well).
 
You could use the USB3 port to run a second drive externally but again get something that spins at higher speeds.
 
The lack of a graphic card is a bit of a drag but your CPU should be powerful enough and if I'm not mistaken all the "i" series have some fancy graphics processing doohickeys in them (mine does).
 
Focusrite is a good company. I have an 18i6 and it's great. Roland stuff if good too but their sluggish driver release worries me but I think they are up to date at the moment.
 
If you want to learn more about suitable systems for Sonar read this link and if you are looking to buy a new laptop dedicated to audio and have the cash take a particularly close look at the ADK Systems link...
 
http://www.cakewalk.com/PCResource/default.aspx
 
Welcome to the forum. Good luck and ask us anything. Good bunch these dudes and/or dudettes are.

Chumer
I would very much like this thread to stay focused on the seven questions presented. 

1) It depends
2) It depends
etc.
 
The hardware you have will work just fine up to a point.  And then it won't work if you want to do more tracks, more complex VSTs, more things on the screen at the same time, etc.  You are asking for definitive answers to questions which are all very subjective.  There is nothing on your list that would prevent X2 from working up to a point.
 
If you are wiling to freeze or bounce a lot, you can do some fairly complex projects on that notebook as is.  Personally I would struggle with the limited display, but X2 gives you ways to make the limited display pretty efficient.
 

I only use one monitor so I can't help you with that (although I do have a vid card with multiple outputs... well there are multiple physical outputs anyway so I think it supports that). I will say that with a nice sized monitor Sonar is pretty slick to to use on just one screen though. The screenset feature and all the easily popped up/hidden elements (via hotkeys) is more than enough I think to keep you motoring through your project. Maybe hold off on the dual monitor action until you see what it's like. Using a laptop screen might be a little whack though so at least one separate monitor would probably be a good idea.
 
As far as 7 vs. 8... well I don't own X3 nor Windows 8 but it seems Cake has really been pushing the Win8/touchscreen gack lately so I'm assuming the coding might be a little more geared towards 8. That is merely speculation though.
 
Also if you get 8 and do decide to get into all the dual monitors wackiness you'll have access to all the touchscreen features (if you purchase a touchscreen monitor). That way you could have your main monitor with an overview of the project and use the second angled flat on your desk to use as a virtual mixing console or to manipulate pretty much most any of the different views in Sonar (there are some vids in the Cakewalk University section of this site showing this type of work). Personally I have no interest in that style of working but you sound like you may be into that.
 
Cheers.

Nope... touchscreen is in full effect as of X2a. You will still need a keyboard and mouse for certain things but AFAIK editing, parameter control and other functions where touch makes sense are all working.  How WELL it works? Well IDK because I don't use it but I haven't seen any complaints about it on here. Like I said take a look at some of the newer Cakewalk University links for vids showing it off and I think there are some blog posts too.
 
Here's a link that'll get you to a bunch of vids...
 
http://www.cakewalk.com/CakeTV/
 
And here's the Blog...
 
http://blog.cakewalk.com/
 
Lots of interesting topics to dig through in both those links. I've got a ton of external links bookmarked I can link as well but that should give you a good idea of how Cake envisions their product. Keep in mind there is a lot of stuff involving older versions but many times it is still applicable in the current versions. Cheers.

No problem. One of the nice things about Sonar is the plethora of free learning resources floating around as well as modestly priced books and vids. Cheers.

Sanderxpander

For the rest, as cparmerlee also said, it all depends. I think your system may be capable enough for your needs. Of course you can run into limits (mainly HD speed) but a 3rd gen i7 (even a mobile one) and 8GB of RAM is really quite good. Upgrading your laptop with a new internal HD is kind of a hassle with reinstalling the OS and everything, but even if you're not against getting a new system, why not start by getting that soundcard and a nice big monitor and get to work? Installing Sonar itself won't take that long and you can easily move all your projects (and use the monitor and soundcard) if you do need a bigger/better system.

And i7 w/ GB RAM is way beyond the Q9300 w/ GB RAM that i'm running.   A fast external drive to run projects may not be a bad idea either if it's practical.
 

There are laptops with dual monitor support.  Dell Alienware 14 gaming laptop for instance.  There are many out there.
 
so looking at specs of your current laptop you can add a 2nd monitor and use the laptop screen and extend the windows screen to the added extra monitor.  your laptop has integrated video.
 
a laptop with a integrated onboard video sometimes shares the main computer memory.  this can take cpu speed and memory away from other things like SONAR.  a laptop that has a video card dedicated to processing video takes this load off the cpu and has it's own dedicated memory freeing up this process.
 
this goes the same for desktop computers.
 
integrated video - not so great.  takes cpu and memory away from program use.
single dedicated video - better.  frees up cpu to work on other things and frees up main memory to work on other things.
dual dedicated video - way better.  each monitor gets a video card to handle that graphic and it's own memory.
 
win7 or win8 with sonar?  well sonar is now optimized to use win8 but works perfectly good in win7.
 
I bought a new computer that came with windows 8 on it.  I could not stand using windows 8.  it's different and there is a lot to learn.  I did not want to spend my time learning how Microsoft wants me to use my computer.  I returned the computer and bought a different computer that had windows 7 pro installed on it.  This was simply a matter of my investment of time use and familiarity.
 
my experience started with a laptop and a simple cheap sound interface.  I had a small screen so I added a 2nd monitor old school CRT monitor which was easer on my eyes but it took space. then I added a separate keyboard and mouse for better typing and ease of using a mouse.  my desk space started growing and cables and whatnot was getting crowded. the hard speed was 5400 and I was getting drop outs in audio playback and very high latency with the interface.  I just wasn't happy using this configuration.  I was always fighting desk space and the computer and not being creative - getting to the music.  Then the laptop died. bought a new laptop that was a bit better newer tech and it was a bit easier to use but 2nd laptop dies in time.
 
Then I went desktop computer but I didn't have the money at the time to get everything I wanted so started adding and upgrading the computer.  still fighting the computer limitations.
 
so I now over time I have learned more and more what technology is best when using sonar and audio production recording and what my needs are to feel comfortable playing and using sonar.
 
My current configuration is all about comfort, speed and convenience for me.  fast computer, lots of memory, big monitors freed up clean work space. I have invested a LOT of money and time in my configuration.
 
The reason I am writing all this is for you to consider what your needs are, what is going to make you comfortable having fun being creative and making music.
 
with what you have currently throw a 2nd monitor on your laptop, get sonar X2/X3, buy a good decent sound interface and start using your setup and you will discover what your path is.  the 2nd monitor and interface can be used later on in a different configuration be it a different laptop or a desktop in the future.  it's not a wasted investment.
 
Hope that is helpful.

There is a lot of nice feedback here.
 
My situation is very similar to the OP in that I do music for "fun" and often get this sinking feeling that if it were not fun, I would stop.
 
For me, I use a laptop (for other programs), but find them very restrictive. For my studio, I wanted to have the ability to "turn it on, and record" and can do so in under 2 minutes flat. My external audio interface is an M-Audio Ozone (which thankfully has 64-bit drivers), and when I ask about a new device similar to folks, I get the response "An audio interface and MIDI controller in the same device? I do not know of such a thing..." I will be crying my eyes out if this ever dies.
 
Having kids, I was always dealing with taking 30 minutes to set up, and could not leave cables plugged in, which no longer exists... so can have a "dedicated work area."
 
Desktops have more "upgradability," run cooler, and allow more to be added to them (i.e. made more "powerful" than a desktop). I think with SONAR, being able to "see" is important. I built my machine for Win7 64-bit use, and backed out of a Win8 upgrade when I saw that Win8 cannot be "uninstalled." Now I am reading posts that Win8 drivers will not work in Win8.1, which has me even more committed to Win7.
 
For me, I can simply turn on the external audio, sound system it feeds, switch to the extended desktop (if desired), plug in something (if other than MIDI or the mic) and go. This has always been the place I wanted to be, but was not "there" until 2 years ago.
 
The "Sandy bridge" machines like mine are "obsolete" now, but I saw info which still benchmarked mine at #10, so it is still very powerful (the graphics card and SSD would be overkill for many users though). These can still be built very cheaply by custom vendors, and are worth researching... bottom line (for me) was the time to get up and running, performance, and being able to see my GUI's without issues. The a-g items in the original post would be "N/A" with a desktop imho.
 
Michael

If you're going to be loading large samples I feel an SSD is a must.
 
Loading an SD3 drumkit on my i5/7200rpm laptop takes forever.  It's painful.
 
The same kit will load from my desktop SSD in a couple of seconds.
 
Loading projects is a lot worse/better.
 

Desktop and dual monitor (for the time being).  Desktops are cool since you can switch the easy parts - hds, memory, slot stuff.  Your dual monitoring will be a slotted - that is the cheapest way.  Matrox is better but twice as much.  And no need to use the usb drive, just slap a second hd inside.
 
The safest and best way is to get one of the music computer builders here to make you one.  Alas, I've never had the money for one of those here at home, but have had great sucess w/ SONY and HP the last 12 years.  Yea, the OEM software is full of crap and bloat, but otherwise they use pretty good components.  As a bonus, all my kids got a desktop as I upgraded.  Once you do the kind of tweaking that Studio Cats etc. do you have a good music computer.
 
Two monitors are good.  My best setup was 2 large matched CTRs.  Right now I have a large flatscreen for the timeline and a smaller one w/ the browser and dock.  I'm waiting for prices to fall to get a same large-sized touchscreen to place below the non-touch so they line up.  I'm hoping this Christmas prices will fall far enough so I can pick one up as a present to myself.  That would be the optimum I think.
 
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