Flat Response Phones

Hi,
I know it's not the industry standard to mix on phones, but sometimes we all do it, late at night
so no one can hear, wife and kids are sleeping, I'm adding a bit of guitar or keys, but seriously
I have a set of Sony MDR-7506 phones, a nice set of phones, but I want a set of flat response
phones, not too expensive, about the same price as my phones.
I don't think my phones give a true response, so therefore I want another set that will help me
get a more accurate sound, yes I know there are the pro's who say NEVER MIX ON PHONES !!!
I'm just looking for someone who maybe thinks outside the box a little, and can point me in the 
right direction.

Thanks

If I had had a little extra dough I would have gone for the Audio Technica ATH M50s that yorolpal mentioned. However I went with what seems to be considered the next best thing in a slightly lower price range. Sennheiser HD 280 Pro's. They are quite nice and around a hundred bucks. The M50s were an extra $80 up here.

I don't think you are honestly going to find a set of headphones that accurately/flatly can give you what would be considered a good baseline for reference...

Its the nature of our ears that makes this improbable...

That being said, I also don't think the idea of "taboo" is accurate either, I've heard great mixes done on headphones and I always check my mixes on several different kinds...

So where I would go is what headphone can allow you to spend hours on a sonic stage and not fatigue your ability to hear?

My vote would go to the Grado RS-1's...

I have the ATH-M40s phones...not quite as good 
as 50's....but not bad for the money...

I, also, couldn't quite reach the 50's either...but I will get a pair...
I haven't heard a bad word about them, and they're half the
price of most phones...about $159 at most places..and
usually on sale somewhere...

I can do a fairly decent mix in my 40's....not great..
not bad either...and, like beep said...I listen to 
the mix on multiple sources after that...and adjust
accordingly...

Cheers!

@jwh... Purist is indeed a word and to me it's a dirty word. Whatever gets results is my philosophy. I really do get far better mixes going back and forth between the headphones and the monitors and then trying it out on other systems like my home stereos and low end computer speakers. Then I'd take it out to various bars and clubs where I knew the staff and they'd let me listen to it on their systems. Or at friends houses or in their cars. Really it's the only way to do things without spending a ton of money at a mastering house who may not even get the results you want. Anyway... greetings from Canada. :-)

ATH-M50's are my workhorse cans as well. I like them a lot and have recommended them many times on this forum. But let's be realistic. They are most definitely not high-fidelity transducers. Frequencies about 6KHz are pretty much not there, in these and most other comparably-priced headphones. Transients are not well-reproduced, especially in the low end. The frequency response overall is plus or minus 10db, worse than we'd tolerate in conventional speakers.

I am not any kind of "purist". I do a lot of mixing on headphones. If you have a crappy room, headphones may be your only option. If you don't live alone and like to work late at night, headphones are your only option. Headphones are essential for detailed editing. Headphones are a crucial. They are just no substitute for speakers and a treated room.

To answer the original post, there is, to my knowledge, no such thing as flat-response headphones. At least, not that I could afford!

Again I write without actually communicating...

Here's what I fond with headphone mixes...no matter how flat, or un-flat the response is you will still need to adjust your mix to become pleasant to the ears...

A perfectly flat response is only valuable as a palette...no one wants to hear it that way...so find a set of headaches you feel comfortable with and learn to mix in relation to the color they provide...or in reference to the link you suggest, the color they do NOT provide...

The fact that many, many great mixes have been made on a set of NS10's is proof enough that "flat" is a relative term...

bapu

Psychobillybob


I don't think you are honestly going to find a set of headphones that accurately/flatly can give you what would be considered a good baseline for reference...

If you can live with a grand price tag, I'd say THESE just about do it, especially if have them custom fitted/molded to your ears.

I use Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro and I think they sound amazing - for the simple reason that I got used to them.

What I mean is - one can use "any" set of headphones as long as you know how they inherently sound. Some headsets lean towards "bassy", others might have a slight boost at 4kHz, etc... If you churn out enough mixes on your headphones, test them on various systems, take notes, go back to your mix and correct accordingly (using the same headphones), you will eventually learn to adjust your mix while compensating to the color that your headset provides.

Besides if you only want to use them for recording late at night, I don't see why you need another set of headphones. It's only when you come to mixing that you need to switch between headsets and speaker-monitors. That's important, because both media reveal certain issues in the mix that are very important.

For e.g., checking reverb on vocals on headset only, might leave it a bit too dry because they are closer to the ears so the reverb tail would be more pronounced. On the other hand, checking reverb only on speakers might leave too much reverb. So you need to check on both.

Ideally, you check on as many different systems as possible. Professional studios have 2 sets of monitoring systems, headphones and even one standalone speaker to check how the music translates to true mono.

But back to the original point - if you get used to the sound / color, you should be fine. That's why even the best mixing engineers carry with them music they are very familiar with so that they aurally test the system they're gonna be working on before they start their new mix.

yorolpal


ATH M50s.  Amazing.  Industry standards.

I have these!
But sometimes when mixing with the M50s, I sometimes wonder if I have enough low end :)

Oh, and one thing I don't like about the M50s is the ultra thin "leather" lining of the inside headband....mine is already frayed and worn out :(

Don't think it can be replaced........

I like the AKG K-240 DF's myself. I believe they are discontinued, but I've been told the ones that replaced them are even better. I've spent years with my 240's and absolutely love them.

While I'll never consider myself a purist, I can say that though my mixes were always fair in cans, they didn't improve until I got a good monitor rig. Though I completely understand what it's like to be forced to mix in cans, I also whole-heartedly feel you are your own worst enemy when you "just accept" that and don't look to better your monitor environment. Though great mixes have come from cans, in my opinion it's a much better situation to listen through good monitors to where you instantly hear what needs to be fixed. In my opinion, no matter what cans you have, you just about always have to compensate for something or make a decision that is really not audible.

Ever make a mix, take it out to your car, write down all the changes you'd like, go back into your studio and not hear these changes in your cans or monitors? So you do what? You compensate for something you don't really hear. You know you have too much bass going on, yet you don't hear too much bass in your studio. So you pull it out anyway and keep on experimenting until you pull the right amount of bass out, or find the right frequency and cut it.

I just wrote an article for Wusik online magazine and one of the first things I mention in it, is not to mix in headphones. If you truly want to become a better engineer and have better, more consistent sounding material, you need good monitors with monitor correction and some room tuning. But if I were in a situation to where it was not an option, the AKG's are the best cans I own that give me mixes that are very close to what I'd come up with on my monitors. They still fall short, but I'd call that "fairly acceptable".

Those Sony MDR's you have jwh, very bass heavy (at least the 5 sets I have here are) and lack mids. They are great cans though because they are loud and drummers love them. I'd never attempt a mix on them though, that's for sure. I really think you'd like the AKG's. They are about $100 more, but well worth it in my opinion. Flat sounding, yet accurate.

-Danny

Give a try to the Sennheiser HD 600's.  These are very well balanced headphones.
 
Kevin Kascak

Oh thank goodness, Jonesey. I was starting to feel like a freak over here with my HD280s. They fit nice, sound good, tweaks seem to translate well to the monitors and although I haven't worn them for more than an hour or so at a time (I take lots of breaks) they don't seem to cause much ear strain. At $100 they're a good deal. I do want some MT50s at some point but that will be a luxury purchase.

Yup. It's like they're not even on your head. I've almost walked away from the rig with them still on and hooked up.