Focusrite Scarlett 18i6 and Behringer ADA8000 with X2 (latency)

I'm on a mission to get my latency down and don't want to spend more $$ than I have to.  I purchased a TASCAM US-1800 about a year ago and can't seem to get the RT latency below 10ms. If I set the latency in ASIO control panel (i.e. TASCAM) to "very low latency", the driver crashes and takes down X2.  I've been able to set it to the next step up to "low latency" but the best I get is 15ms. Still unacceptable.  I've seen a few posts regarding the Focusrite devices and their low latency drivers.  I have to be able to deal with the ADAT inputs (for 8 of the channels anyway), so I'm looking at the Behringer ADA8000 which should foot the bill.  I would purchase the Focusrite OctoPre MKII but it's twice the price of the Behringer.  My goal is to use X2 in "Live Gig" situations as well as the studio.  To have a hybrid solution between software and hardware is probably going to work best.  What I'm trying to say here is that I don't need to use ProChannel  or other plug-ins for EQ, Compression, FX since I already have hardware to accomplish this instead of adding software plugins (can always add later) that increase latency.  I also am trying not to drag my 32-channel board around with me and want to record live venues and mix down later. BTW, I've turned off CPU "Parking" which makes a big difference in performance.  Any thoughts? 

If you're looking for the lowest possible round-trip latency, that means using an audio interface that has a small hidden safety-buffer.  

External USB/Firewire units often use a large hidden safety-buffer to ensure glitch-free playback.  While this help to ensure glitch-free playback (under less than ideal circumstances), it comes at the expense of greater round-trip latency.  Other than increasing the sample-rate, there's nothing you can do to mitigate an audio interface's round-trip latency.  Units that use DICE-II tend to use a larger hidden safety-buffer (Alesis, TC, Focusrite, etc)

In an external unit:
RME, MOTU, and Presonus Audiobox VSL series would all fit the bill.
The RME USB units offer round-trip latency of 4.9ms at a 48-sample ASIO buffer size/44.1k

MOTU and Presonus units would be slightly above this.
The Octacapture and siblings would be slightly above the MOTU and Presonus units (7.4ms)

With PCI/e units:
Most offer round-trip latency of ~5ms at a 64-sample ASIO buffer size/44.1k

Thanks all for you input.  I did purchase the Focusrite Scarlett 18i6 today with the Presonus Digimax 8D ADAT unit.  I've attached links to screenshots in X2 on how I configured my preferences:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/p4f5v9nhq0i950m/1.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/6ys7758wxwoycyf/2.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/6r0g9rpesw03u74/3.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/t05kup2so54mkhd/4.jpg

Travis, In response to your post, I use two different configuration.  A duo format with two female vocalists where we use professional tracks. Both vocalists play percussion and one plays guitar. I'm just the lonely Harmonica player that sits in from time-to-time . The other format is a band consisting of 3-part vocal harmonies, guitar, bass and drums (no tracks).  All channels in X2 are recorded audio tracks from the instruments or vocal mics. I have hardware to handle compression, FX and EQ for stage monitoring or FOH.  


Jim, In response to your post, I was going to go with the Octacapture initially, but an expensive bugga when compared to the Focusrite.  I decided against the Behringer ADA8000 (although all my other hardware is Behringer) because I was told the pre-amps tend to be noisy.  I've heard good things about the Presonus Digimax 8D.  Ended up getting the Scarlett 18i6 for $240 US and DigiMax 8D for $330 US.


Bottom line is I'm going to have to play around a bit to find what works.  What else is new  

Travis,


I know Behringer has gotten a bad rap in the past, but I think they've come around quote a bit.  Their 32-channel board is one of the few with 6 aux sends, 4 of which are pre-fade.  Works great for separate monitor mixes.  I use their FX, compressors and 2 EQ's (one for monitor and one for FOH).  Back to the latency issue, I may be taking the Focusrite back.  To get less than 10ms RT, I had to drop the buffer width to 1ms and increase the buffer I/O to 2048.  Still hangs the SONICPDR.exe process.  I know I can increase the buffer width to 2ms, but that will put the RT to about 14ms.  What's the difference between that and the 15ms I'm already getting with my TASCAM?  Only that I've spent another $700 US (with tax and warranty) to gain nothing.  If I keep spending this kind of $$, I could have purchased the X32 digital board for $2500 US.  I think I'm coming to the conclusion that I shouldn't use a soft mixer for live gigs and stick with hardware. I don't know how Mackie is doing it with their DL1608 running on an iPad or the PreSonus Studio Live units.  Even Behringer released their iX line of mixers that, like the Mackie, run with an iPad interface.  This part of the business is so frustrating.  Am I sticking with a software product (X2) that only interfaces with legacy hardware (even the Behringer X32 with Mackie Controller won't interface), or should I move to Pro Tools and learn another DAW or will I be faced with the same issues?  I've been with Cakewalk since before they branded it SONAR, but when CW Support states that you have to have a RT of 10ms or less and won't recommend hardware that will work, it puts me off.  Am I ranting?  Can you feel my frustration ?

travismc1


Gio
 
I was against the Behringer because of the age of the product and the limitations... 44.1 or 48 khz only, modern digital equipment that is reasonably inexpensive can go 96khz and some can even go 192khz.  That may not be noticeable to the ear, but I would try to maintain a certain level of compatability between digital equipment.
 
I have the SX4882 for my studio and the Invisible Mic Pre-amps are quiet.  But then again I don't toss that board around like I did my 1986 mark iv built-like-a-tank-and-weighed-just-as-much Peavey board.
 
I know Behringer gets a bad wrap, but nobody is trashing their chinese-made iPhones or X-boxes.

I wouldn't swap out to protools, personally I just keep PT for the few people that come in and say "I want recorded in ProTools. It's the industry standard." I show them I have it, let them see it, they think I'm more professional than Bob down the street that is running reaper... I probably wouldn't swap out to anything else, software wise. The end results on the recording side are still awesome. Every piece of software is going to work similarly. Presonus's hardware is capturing the sound before it gets to the computer. They are just designing the dynamics into the BOX. You control the settings from your computer but the info is in the box before it gets to the DAW. And your TASCAM software mixer should do the exact same thing. Play with that just a little.... MIX with the Tascam Software Mixer and see what you get. Have sonar running in the background and arm the tracks one at a time. You'll see what I mean.