tonydean
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Folk Fingerstyle Acoustic guitar/vocals mixing ideas
Hi guys, I know everyone on here has different ways to mix, so I wanted to start off a thread to get different opinions on my new project. I write folk style music with mainly just finger style acoustic guitar, vocals and some tracks include some La Session Strings cello and some tracks have harmonica. I use Sonar X1, I have all the Waves plug ins, Mercury bundle. I have watched quite a few tutorials on mixing acoustic guitars and vocals, and I wanted to get users ideas here on what they use. With my current set up, I like to keep it quite simple, with two acoustic guitar tracks, panned hard left and hard right, using the same recording of 1 acoustic guitar. I route the acoustic tracks to one reverb bus, that I also use for vocals. I also have the vocal track sent to a delay bus and the one reverb bus. Now, here are some of my questions I'd like to share for you helpful guys. 1. Should I use the same reverb bus for acoustic guitar and vocals, as I've heard that using the same reverb, you get the mix sounding like it's all in the same room. 2. Which reverb plug ins does everyone like to use, I currently have Lexicon reverb plug in too. 3. Which plug ins and chains does everyone like to use. Any other tips would be great. I also want to ask you all about using too much/too little compression on acoustic guitars as I want to keep my acoustic tracks very dynamic as it's folk style, and I don't use many instruments, so therefore there is a lot of space in my mixes. Thanks in advance for all your help! Tones..
Intel Core i7 920, 8GB DDR3 1600 RAM, Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit, Dual screen, Sonar X3e, Producer64bit, BFD2 64bit with Andy Johns Waves Mercury, M-Audio Profire 610, Fender Strat Guitar, Cole Clark, Angel 2 Acoustic, Takamine G-Series Acoustic Guitar Jackson Skulls Guitar, Rode NT-2 Condenser Mic 2 TB, Samsung pro840 256 gig SSD, USB 3.0 WD external HD, Sonar V-Studio 700c.
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gswitz
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Re: Folk Fingerstyle Acoustic guitar/vocals mixing ideas
2013/10/01 19:35:39
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I mix pairs acoustic musicians often because they are small and fun to mix. I usually use the same reverb on both vocals and guitars. I have played with lots of different Verbs... Right now, I have Perfect Space, Sonitus, Blue Cat and Breverb full. I like them all on different days. I usually like Reverb applied lightly enough that the artists aren't sure it's there until I hit stop and they hear the tails. I like CA-2A compressors on the vocals and on the more melodic guitarist I can put a hint of Tube Saturation. Primarily, I try to keep it simple. I usually pull some of the mids out of the guitars during the vocals so the vocalist doesn't compete so hard with the guitars for the same range (depends where the guitars and vocals are of course). It can help to start mixing EVERYTHING panned Center (turn stereo interleave off on the main bus). That way you can EQ so you can hear everything. Then spread it out after you're done EQing. And record a lot and mix a lot. That helps. :-) I remember one of the people I mix for was like... that September 2011 Mix is still my favorite and I laughed. I don't really stamp out mixes with a particular format. Every one is new.
post edited by gswitz - 2013/10/02 06:54:35
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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tonydean
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Re: Folk Fingerstyle Acoustic guitar/vocals mixing ideas
2013/10/01 20:39:57
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Hi gswitz, Thanks for the input. I like what you've written here, it's very similar to what I've been doing. I also like to keep it simple with EQing mainly on the tracks. I find one aspect interesting here that you've stated. When you say you like to pull some of the mids out of the guitars during the vocals, do you mean that you automate the EQ so that you drop the mids only when the vocals are active in the track? Thank you again for your input. Tones..
Intel Core i7 920, 8GB DDR3 1600 RAM, Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit, Dual screen, Sonar X3e, Producer64bit, BFD2 64bit with Andy Johns Waves Mercury, M-Audio Profire 610, Fender Strat Guitar, Cole Clark, Angel 2 Acoustic, Takamine G-Series Acoustic Guitar Jackson Skulls Guitar, Rode NT-2 Condenser Mic 2 TB, Samsung pro840 256 gig SSD, USB 3.0 WD external HD, Sonar V-Studio 700c.
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gswitz
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Re: Folk Fingerstyle Acoustic guitar/vocals mixing ideas
2013/10/01 20:44:33
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Yep. That's exactly what I mean. I replace mids for the guitars during instrumentals where the guitar mids are not competing for space with the vocals. Sometimes for heavy vocal tracks I skip it... or if one guitarist is primarily rhythm, I duck the mids for that guitar and don't automate them back in letting it fill the space of bass/rhythm and symbols (high end) leaving more room in the middle for melody around the vocal range. I can duck a Piezo acoustic guitar pickup 12 dB pretty casually in the mid range. Be aware that automation of the PC EQ is not as tight as volume automation in my experience. You can't duck a click to a millisecond. You have to give it more time to adjust. It does work though and can easily change over seconds.
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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tonydean
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Re: Folk Fingerstyle Acoustic guitar/vocals mixing ideas
2013/10/01 20:56:03
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Ok buddy, thanks again for your insight! Tones..
Intel Core i7 920, 8GB DDR3 1600 RAM, Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit, Dual screen, Sonar X3e, Producer64bit, BFD2 64bit with Andy Johns Waves Mercury, M-Audio Profire 610, Fender Strat Guitar, Cole Clark, Angel 2 Acoustic, Takamine G-Series Acoustic Guitar Jackson Skulls Guitar, Rode NT-2 Condenser Mic 2 TB, Samsung pro840 256 gig SSD, USB 3.0 WD external HD, Sonar V-Studio 700c.
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gswitz
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Re: Folk Fingerstyle Acoustic guitar/vocals mixing ideas
2013/10/01 23:19:25
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☄ Helpfulby tonydean 2013/10/02 02:17:43
For playing with it... try setting the volume for the rhythm guitar a little too loud on the vocal (cover it up a bit)... then dial back the mids until you can hear the vocal nicely. You should end up with a warmer fuller mix than if you just suppress the volume of the rhythm below the vocal.
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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tonydean
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Re: Folk Fingerstyle Acoustic guitar/vocals mixing ideas
2013/10/01 23:49:51
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Another nice tip, thanks again!
Intel Core i7 920, 8GB DDR3 1600 RAM, Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit, Dual screen, Sonar X3e, Producer64bit, BFD2 64bit with Andy Johns Waves Mercury, M-Audio Profire 610, Fender Strat Guitar, Cole Clark, Angel 2 Acoustic, Takamine G-Series Acoustic Guitar Jackson Skulls Guitar, Rode NT-2 Condenser Mic 2 TB, Samsung pro840 256 gig SSD, USB 3.0 WD external HD, Sonar V-Studio 700c.
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M_Glenn_M
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Re: Folk Fingerstyle Acoustic guitar/vocals mixing ideas
2013/10/02 00:02:42
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I'm doing this style right now too. Goods tips thanks. My favorite trick right now is using V-Vocal for harmonies on a cloned track. It keeps it very tight. I notice it helps if you nudge the harmony a bit late.
Producer Exp x1d Win XP, intel Core2 Duo CPU E4600 @ 2.4 GHz, 2 GHz RAM Nvidia gforce 8500 GT BR800 controller , DR880 drum machine. GR20 guitar synth, Alesis QX25 KRK 6 + 10" sub. Sennheiser HD280pro cans 2 Yamaki acoustics, Korean Strat, 60's Jazzmaster, 60's BF Deluxe Reverb,
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tonydean
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Re: Folk Fingerstyle Acoustic guitar/vocals mixing ideas
2013/10/02 00:18:59
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Welcome to the thread Glenn, thanks for your input!
Intel Core i7 920, 8GB DDR3 1600 RAM, Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit, Dual screen, Sonar X3e, Producer64bit, BFD2 64bit with Andy Johns Waves Mercury, M-Audio Profire 610, Fender Strat Guitar, Cole Clark, Angel 2 Acoustic, Takamine G-Series Acoustic Guitar Jackson Skulls Guitar, Rode NT-2 Condenser Mic 2 TB, Samsung pro840 256 gig SSD, USB 3.0 WD external HD, Sonar V-Studio 700c.
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tonydean
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Re: Folk Fingerstyle Acoustic guitar/vocals mixing ideas
2013/10/02 02:20:18
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Anyone else with tips on how they mix?
Intel Core i7 920, 8GB DDR3 1600 RAM, Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit, Dual screen, Sonar X3e, Producer64bit, BFD2 64bit with Andy Johns Waves Mercury, M-Audio Profire 610, Fender Strat Guitar, Cole Clark, Angel 2 Acoustic, Takamine G-Series Acoustic Guitar Jackson Skulls Guitar, Rode NT-2 Condenser Mic 2 TB, Samsung pro840 256 gig SSD, USB 3.0 WD external HD, Sonar V-Studio 700c.
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gswitz
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Re: Folk Fingerstyle Acoustic guitar/vocals mixing ideas
2013/10/02 06:53:51
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Usually when I record 2 acoustic instruments + singers there is lots of bleed in the mics. For this reason, I am loathe to adjust pitch because while I might improve the vocal, I'm likely to pull the guitars out of tune. I use M-AutoAlign to resolve phase issues on the various concurrently recorded tracks with bleed. It basically measures the distance between the mics. It's kinda cool. If the mics were 4 feet apart, the adjustment is around 4 milliseconds. http://www.meldaproduction.com/plugins/product.php?id=MAutoAlign There is a video tutorial for MAutoAlign on the Melda Site that helps explain.
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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Beepster
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Re: Folk Fingerstyle Acoustic guitar/vocals mixing ideas
2013/10/02 10:32:43
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Well I haven't done much of my acoustic stuff with Sonar yet and this may or may not be useful to you but I found R-Mix was absolutely great for cleaning up room and other noise. Made it easier to do the rest of my tweaks because I was working with a nice clean signal. Trying to get rid of that stuff with traditional methods is daunting for a semi-beginner mix engineer such as myself. As far as mix/recording techniques there are lots of good ideas to be found over on Groove3 if you can afford to drop 15 bucks or whatever it is for a month pass. There is one vid mostly about micing/recording that has a pretty good section on micing a solo acoustic singer/songwriter. IIRC too there is a pretty good Cake Blog post on micing acoustic guitars as well but I forget who wrote it or if it actually was the blog. I think there were a bunch of vids attached to it to show the various techniques and how they sounded. Very in depth.
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Beepster
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Re: Folk Fingerstyle Acoustic guitar/vocals mixing ideas
2013/10/02 10:36:10
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Beepster
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Re: Folk Fingerstyle Acoustic guitar/vocals mixing ideas
2013/10/02 10:39:49
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I haven't reloaded my bookmarks back onto my laptop after wiping it a little while ago but I'm sure I've got other links. Check back later today. I'll try to get around to loading them back up and see what I've got. Cheers.
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tonydean
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Re: Folk Fingerstyle Acoustic guitar/vocals mixing ideas
2013/10/02 15:59:05
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Thanks Beepster for dropping by. I have a few Groove 3 tutorials, but I'll check out the solo singer/songwriter ones, thanks again. Tones...
Intel Core i7 920, 8GB DDR3 1600 RAM, Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit, Dual screen, Sonar X3e, Producer64bit, BFD2 64bit with Andy Johns Waves Mercury, M-Audio Profire 610, Fender Strat Guitar, Cole Clark, Angel 2 Acoustic, Takamine G-Series Acoustic Guitar Jackson Skulls Guitar, Rode NT-2 Condenser Mic 2 TB, Samsung pro840 256 gig SSD, USB 3.0 WD external HD, Sonar V-Studio 700c.
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tonydean
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Re: Folk Fingerstyle Acoustic guitar/vocals mixing ideas
2013/10/04 01:25:48
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Friendly bump
Intel Core i7 920, 8GB DDR3 1600 RAM, Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit, Dual screen, Sonar X3e, Producer64bit, BFD2 64bit with Andy Johns Waves Mercury, M-Audio Profire 610, Fender Strat Guitar, Cole Clark, Angel 2 Acoustic, Takamine G-Series Acoustic Guitar Jackson Skulls Guitar, Rode NT-2 Condenser Mic 2 TB, Samsung pro840 256 gig SSD, USB 3.0 WD external HD, Sonar V-Studio 700c.
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