For those who wish to move to ProTools........, here is a horror story

Currently, I have a friend who uses ProTools and paid for version 11 and almost all Waves plugins. His current build is something like 11.3.1. I use Cakewalk and record all tracks then send him those tracks for mixing. We do this because his skills as a mixer are far superior to my own. He also has a slew of plugins from Waves that I do not own.
 
Recently, he received an email from Waves that he HAD to update to their newest version even though we have never had an issue with one of their plugins. Suddenly we have had 3 sessions corrupt which pretty much stopped our progress on our upcoming album.
 
After much troubleshooting, we found online that the newest version of Waves won't support any version of ProTools before 11.3.2.
 
You also cannot downgrade Waves either.
 
My friend tries to find that version since he has paid for 11 and it is not available UNLESS YOU PAY FOR VERSION 12. Does that make any sense?!!! It's the last update for 11 and you have to buy 12 to get it?? We are currently too broke to pay for it just yet so our album is on hold until we resolve this! (He is remote BTW so we can't just switch to my PC with Cakewalk - also, I do not own the same plugins)
 
Obviously, we are also mad at Waves. He believes that this is some sort of collusion between Avid and Waves but I am not as much of a conspiracy theorist. I have to admit that it sure looks that way to the passerby. Waves' updates never seemed to add any functionality or fix any bugs that we have experienced so we have to wonder why they forced them. He had been running fine on the old version and never had a bug.
 
The reason I post this here is because I am mad! Also, I wanted those of you who feel angry at Cakewalk (I've seen some posts threatening to move to ProTools)  for some reason to see that the alternatives may not be so great! I am very happy with Sonar.
 
I am trying to talk him into buying Sonar and moving on but he doesn't want to learn a new interface. Who knows? He had always bragged about how great ProTools is but last night he began to doubt himself.
 
Thanks for letting me rant! :)

You may have a point there. Waves forces updates and I never see any change in the plugins. It feels like forced obsolescence.

Can Waves kill your plug-ins if you don't update? Does your friend not have a system backup?

I already chastised him for not backing up his system first (He could make an image like I do before every upgrade). The problem is that they forced the upgrade of the license center which would have stopped the older version from working so even backing up would not have helped in this case. When you load the new version it automatically pulls the latest version down and does not provide an older version at all. You are forced to upgrade.
 
What really stuns me is the fact that you purchase version ProTools 11 and they make you pay for 12 in order to get the last update to 11. Does that make sense to anyone? He found a large number of posts from their customers complaining about it but Avid has not responded at all to the complaints.

Sanderxpander
You can install older Waves versions just fine. Go to their site. Not sure about PT compatibility but I'm assuming there too you can install an older version. It's always a good idea to set a system restore point before running updates.

As I was going to say as well, when you Download/install, you will get an option to chose your version. 
At least it was possible last time I got a plugin... a few months ago... :)
 
peace!

Maybe he should just buy SONAR Platinum with Lifetime updates?
 
All my Waves plugs (Mercury, SSL and Abbey Road bundles) have ALWAYS just worked in SOANR. I've been on Waves since Version 7 and am currently running the latest version.

Surely your friend has other plugins that he can substitute for the Waves stuff? Or is there some specific Waves plugin that you can't do the mix without? Seems the easiest solution for now would be to use alternatives to finish the mix.

Waves is about the only company where I've used their support, and it's always been excellent. Contact them and explain your situation. I think it very likely they'll have some kind of solution, you're probably not the first person to encounter this.
 
Perhaps this link will also help: http://www.waves.com/support/how-to-find-your-plugins-in-pro-tools-11-and-up
 

chuckebaby
...
but im guessing with that type of technology you'll come home one day and your software will have stolen your wife and moved out of state.

If only! That would have saved me a TON of money at divorce time.

Passive Drift
I don't know if this is what you needed but... http://www.waves.com/support/how-to-roll-back-to-waves-v9-3 waves Roll back to 9.3

Thanks for the tip. We didn't find this article in our search but it looks promising. He jumped on the forum just a few minutes ago and is planning on calling Waves to resolve.

Isn't it funny how when one wants to threaten to leave the installed base the more often than not site that they are running into the arms of ProStools and not a less "popular" threat like Studio 1 or Reaper. Really kind of discredits their threat as it's just too easy to say today.
 

kitekrazy1
I think everyone assumes 3rd party plugins are always superior to whats included in DAWs.

Unfortunately, I think you're right.

Actually, I have found that I was incorrect in some of my assertions (As a few of you have tersely pointed out). Waves does let you download older versions but he had a license issue which prevented him from doing that so, Coolbass, you are correct BUT there was an issue that took tech support for Waves over an hour to address. Even though he is back up and running, ProTools is still unstable (This is actually his fault for letting the Windows 10 Anniversary update install without first backing up his system) so the most cost effective thing for him to do is upgrade to a newer version. Since he already owns Protools, upgrading is about 1/2 the cost of buying Cakewalk new.
 

kitekrazy1
I think everyone assumes 3rd party plugins are always superior to whats included in DAWs.

There is a reason for this assumption - It's often true. Both Cakewalk and ProTools have some really nice plugins included and we use those but there are some Waves plugins that just sound better and really enhance the mix or we would not have bought them. Maybe in the hands of someone more skilled than us, they can make it sound as good without them. In our hands, the extra plugins are needed. Believe me, we have tried without them and failed. Since we do not have those skilled hands available, we settle for using the 3rd party plugins. :)
 
Sorry for the misinformation folks. I try not to do that but I was upset and ranting. This has really impacted the deadline for my project and I reacted badly.
 
The fact of the matter is that both DAWs have worked well for us. It would be nice for both of us to be on the same DAW but it's just too much money for the one who changes and what we have works nicely (Until the up-grade debacle of course.)
 
Cheers

An EQ is still an EQ, barring any "vintage modeling". I like some third party plugs I have (FabFilter, Waves and some others) but if you know the basic controls you can get by with most DAWs. A delay will still have a feedback and a mix control, an EQ has Q, frequency and gain and a compressor has a threshold and a ratio.

mckool
Actually, I have found that I was incorrect in some of my assertions (As a few of you have tersely pointed out). Waves does let you download older versions but he had a license issue which prevented him from doing that so, Coolbass, you are correct BUT there was an issue that took tech support for Waves over an hour to address. Even though he is back up and running, ProTools is still unstable (This is actually his fault for letting the Windows 10 Anniversary update install without first backing up his system) so the most cost effective thing for him to do is upgrade to a newer version. Since he already owns Protools, upgrading is about 1/2 the cost of buying Cakewalk new.
 

kitekrazy1
I think everyone assumes 3rd party plugins are always superior to whats included in DAWs.

There is a reason for this assumption - It's often true. Both Cakewalk and ProTools have some really nice plugins included and we use those but there are some Waves plugins that just sound better and really enhance the mix or we would not have bought them. Maybe in the hands of someone more skilled than us, they can make it sound as good without them. In our hands, the extra plugins are needed. Believe me, we have tried without them and failed. Since we do not have those skilled hands available, we settle for using the 3rd party plugins. :)
 
Sorry for the misinformation folks. I try not to do that but I was upset and ranting. This has really impacted the deadline for my project and I reacted badly.
 
The fact of the matter is that both DAWs have worked well for us. It would be nice for both of us to be on the same DAW but it's just too much money for the one who changes and what we have works nicely (Until the up-grade debacle of course.)
 
Cheers

It 's nice to let us know how it all worked out.
Succes with the project.