Helpful ReplyFreeze synth and move clip to a new track

Author
ttaggart4
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 13
  • Joined: 2014/12/20 13:05:55
  • Status: offline
2016/03/08 16:32:03 (permalink)

Freeze synth and move clip to a new track

I used to be able to freeze a track, and then shift drag the resulting clip up or down to a new track. Now the only way that works is copy/paste, which takes a bit longer. It doesn't seem to matter which softsynth is being used. Is this behavior normal?
 
Using Sonar Platinum Version 21.13.00 Build 32 Newburyport x64
 
Thanks!
#1
brundlefly
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 14250
  • Joined: 2007/09/14 14:57:59
  • Location: Manitou Spgs, Colorado
  • Status: offline
Re: Freeze synth and move clip to a new track 2016/03/08 17:10:10 (permalink)
Shouldn't be a problem. What happens when you try to Shift+drag?
 
Alternatively, you can bounce directly to the other track and then disconnect the synth or Archive the synth track.

SONAR Platinum x64, 2x MOTU 2408/PCIe-424  (24-bit, 48kHz)
Win10, I7-6700K @ 4.0GHz, 24GB DDR4, 2TB HDD, 32GB SSD Cache, GeForce GTX 750Ti, 2x 24" 16:10 IPS Monitors
#2
Paul P
Max Output Level: -48.5 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 2685
  • Joined: 2012/12/08 17:15:47
  • Location: Montreal
  • Status: offline
Re: Freeze synth and move clip to a new track 2016/03/08 17:21:57 (permalink)
 
It looks like both drag move and drag copy were disabled as of Manchester.  Move didn't work properly anyway.  You could drag copy the frozen clip elsewhere at that worked ok, but drag moving it would cause the source track to go crazy if you then unfroze it.  I think they should just have disabled move, not copy.

Sonar Platinum [2017.10], Win7U x64 sp1, Xeon E5-1620 3.6 GHz, Asus P9X79WS, 16 GB ECC, 128gb SSD, HD7950, Mackie Blackjack
#3
ttaggart4
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 13
  • Joined: 2014/12/20 13:05:55
  • Status: offline
Re: Freeze synth and move clip to a new track 2016/03/08 17:30:17 (permalink)
Paul P
 
It looks like both drag move and drag copy were disabled as of Manchester.  Move didn't work properly anyway.  You could drag copy the frozen clip elsewhere at that worked ok, but drag moving it would cause the source track to go crazy if you then unfroze it.  I think they should just have disabled move, not copy.




Neither works! Shift+drag, the cursor moves but not the clip. Same with Shift+Ctrl+Drag (except that the cursor has the little plus next to it). 
 
If it has been disabled, that's a shame. I used it all the time and never had any problems with synths.
 
 
#4
AT
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 10654
  • Joined: 2004/01/09 10:42:46
  • Location: TeXaS
  • Status: offline
Re: Freeze synth and move clip to a new track 2016/03/08 17:45:06 (permalink)
Geez, that will be a Charlie foxtrot.

https://soundcloud.com/a-pleasure-dome
http://www.bnoir-film.com/  
 
there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
#5
jpetersen
Max Output Level: -61 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 1499
  • Joined: 2015/07/11 20:22:53
  • Status: offline
Re: Freeze synth and move clip to a new track 2016/03/08 18:34:31 (permalink)
Strange. Works in X3. If I move it to another track, then press Ctrl before I drop, a little plus sign appears next to the "Move" cross and I get a copy.
 
In Newburyport, the plus sign also appears, but nothing happens.
 
And Copy Paste works in both. Weird.
#6
ttaggart4
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 13
  • Joined: 2014/12/20 13:05:55
  • Status: offline
Re: Freeze synth and move clip to a new track 2016/03/08 18:42:55 (permalink)
jpetersen
Strange. Works in X3. If I move it to another track, then press Ctrl before I drop, a little plus sign appears next to the "Move" cross and I get a copy.
 
In Newburyport, the plus sign also appears, but nothing happens.
 
And Copy Paste works in both. Weird.


Exactly.
#7
Paul P
Max Output Level: -48.5 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 2685
  • Joined: 2012/12/08 17:15:47
  • Location: Montreal
  • Status: offline
Re: Freeze synth and move clip to a new track 2016/03/08 19:15:16 (permalink)
 
I don't think moving made sense (what does it mean for the synth to be frozen but not have a clip ?) so I can see preventing that.  Regular copy works so why not drag copy as well since it's the same thing ?  Looks like a botched fix to me.

Sonar Platinum [2017.10], Win7U x64 sp1, Xeon E5-1620 3.6 GHz, Asus P9X79WS, 16 GB ECC, 128gb SSD, HD7950, Mackie Blackjack
#8
brundlefly
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 14250
  • Joined: 2007/09/14 14:57:59
  • Location: Manitou Spgs, Colorado
  • Status: offline
Re: Freeze synth and move clip to a new track 2016/03/09 02:11:46 (permalink)
Try splitting the Instrument track first.

SONAR Platinum x64, 2x MOTU 2408/PCIe-424  (24-bit, 48kHz)
Win10, I7-6700K @ 4.0GHz, 24GB DDR4, 2TB HDD, 32GB SSD Cache, GeForce GTX 750Ti, 2x 24" 16:10 IPS Monitors
#9
jpetersen
Max Output Level: -61 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 1499
  • Joined: 2015/07/11 20:22:53
  • Status: offline
Re: Freeze synth and move clip to a new track 2016/03/09 03:34:33 (permalink)
I did it with a midi and an instrument track.
The frozen audio in question was in the instrument track.
#10
Bristol_Jonesey
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 16775
  • Joined: 2007/10/08 15:41:17
  • Location: Bristol, UK
  • Status: offline
Re: Freeze synth and move clip to a new track 2016/03/09 04:22:44 (permalink)
Right, my findings so far.
 
It works as it used to with Dim Pro
It doesn't work with Rapture Session
 
I'll keep testing, though it won't be for several hours

CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughout
Custom built i7 3930, 32Gb RAM, 2 x 1Tb Internal HDD, 1 x 1TB system SSD (Win 7), 1 x 500Gb system SSD (Win 10), 2 x 1Tb External HDD's, Dual boot Win 7 & Win 10 64 Bit, Saffire Pro 26, ISA One, Adam P11A,
#11
jpetersen
Max Output Level: -61 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 1499
  • Joined: 2015/07/11 20:22:53
  • Status: offline
Re: Freeze synth and move clip to a new track 2016/03/09 04:51:39 (permalink)
I'm getting unchanged odd results with Roland TTS (DXi), FM8 (Synth) and DimPro (Sample player).
 
The drag action does however cause fades or crossfades if I'm not careful.
#12
Paul P
Max Output Level: -48.5 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 2685
  • Joined: 2012/12/08 17:15:47
  • Location: Montreal
  • Status: offline
Re: Freeze synth and move clip to a new track 2016/03/09 06:50:56 (permalink)
brundlefly
Try splitting the Instrument track first.



This does work, both drag move and drag copy, but it still has the buggy behaviour of unfreezing a synth who's had it's audio stolen.  This behaviour gets worse with each interation of move/unfreeze.  So the fix, if there was one, was questionable and addressed only half the problem.

Sonar Platinum [2017.10], Win7U x64 sp1, Xeon E5-1620 3.6 GHz, Asus P9X79WS, 16 GB ECC, 128gb SSD, HD7950, Mackie Blackjack
#13
ttaggart4
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 13
  • Joined: 2014/12/20 13:05:55
  • Status: offline
Re: Freeze synth and move clip to a new track 2016/03/09 06:59:00 (permalink)
Bristol_Jonesey: I can't get Dimension Pro to work . . .
 
Brundlefly: This works, and it will be a useful workaround for bouncing individual kit pieces in, say, AD2. But for a single bounce softsynth copy/paste is still as efficient. 
 
Paul P: I have not experienced any buggy behavior when using this technique, and I have been doing it for a long time! Perhaps your compositions are more intricate than mine ;).
 
Thanks everyone for your responses! I have never had much luck with forums, usually just answers like 'I don't know' (then don't waste my time!) but I believe Cakewalk users are the most knowledgeable and helpful out there! 
#14
tenfoot
Max Output Level: -53.5 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 2186
  • Joined: 2015/01/22 18:12:07
  • Location: Qld, Australia
  • Status: offline
Re: Freeze synth and move clip to a new track 2016/03/09 07:03:02 (permalink)
Due to this being buggy there is now no way to change the render bit depth of soft synths after the initial project setting.  Changing the render setting in preferences has no effect on bounce to track (broke in Sonar 2015).  The workaround was to freeze the synth and drag the track.  Must nearly be time for a nice fat bug fix update. 

Bruce.
 
Sonar Platinum 2017-09, Studio One 3.5.3, Win 10 x64, Quad core i7, RME Fireface, Behringer X32 Producer, Behringer X32 Rack, Presonus Faderport, Lemure Software Controller (Android), Enttec DMXIS VST lighting controller, Xtempo POK.
#15
brundlefly
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 14250
  • Joined: 2007/09/14 14:57:59
  • Location: Manitou Spgs, Colorado
  • Status: offline
Re: Freeze synth and move clip to a new track 2016/03/09 14:07:39 (permalink)
tenfoot
Due to this being buggy there is now no way to change the render bit depth of soft synths after the initial project setting.  Changing the render setting in preferences has no effect on bounce to track (broke in Sonar 2015).


The conditions for this issue still need clarification as I was not able to reproduce a problem other than that the project needed to be closed and re-opened for the render depth change to take effect. When last we left it, I was speculating that your case might be synth-specific, but that was never confirmed. For the benefit of others following along, here's that thread:
 
http://forum.cakewalk.com...to-track-m3374413.aspx
 
 

SONAR Platinum x64, 2x MOTU 2408/PCIe-424  (24-bit, 48kHz)
Win10, I7-6700K @ 4.0GHz, 24GB DDR4, 2TB HDD, 32GB SSD Cache, GeForce GTX 750Ti, 2x 24" 16:10 IPS Monitors
#16
Paul P
Max Output Level: -48.5 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 2685
  • Joined: 2012/12/08 17:15:47
  • Location: Montreal
  • Status: offline
Re: Freeze synth and move clip to a new track 2016/03/09 16:49:07 (permalink)
ttaggart4
Paul P: I have not experienced any buggy behavior when using this technique, and I have been doing it for a long time! Perhaps your compositions are more intricate than mine ;).



It's not the move per se that causes the problem, it's the subsequent unfreezing and re-freezing of the synth that is problematic.  Maybe you don't do this ?  Watch was goes on in the transport window when you refreeze after having stolen the clip from a frozen synth and then unfrozen it.  The first time it will go through 2 freezing passes.  The next time it's 3, then 4, etc.  And often the resultant clip get longer and longer each time. 

Sonar Platinum [2017.10], Win7U x64 sp1, Xeon E5-1620 3.6 GHz, Asus P9X79WS, 16 GB ECC, 128gb SSD, HD7950, Mackie Blackjack
#17
ttaggart4
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 13
  • Joined: 2014/12/20 13:05:55
  • Status: offline
Re: Freeze synth and move clip to a new track 2016/03/09 17:43:41 (permalink)
Paul P
ttaggart4
Paul P: I have not experienced any buggy behavior when using this technique, and I have been doing it for a long time! Perhaps your compositions are more intricate than mine ;).



It's not the move per se that causes the problem, it's the subsequent unfreezing and re-freezing of the synth that is problematic.  Maybe you don't do this ?  Watch was goes on in the transport window when you refreeze after having stolen the clip from a frozen synth and then unfrozen it.  The first time it will go through 2 freezing passes.  The next time it's 3, then 4, etc.  And often the resultant clip get longer and longer each time. 


I do exactly that. When I am ready to mix AD2, I 
  1. Solo a drum kit piece
  2. Freeze the synth
  3. Copy the resulting clip to a new track solely for that kit piece's audio
  4. Unfreeze the synth
  5. Solo the next kit piece
  6. Lather, rinse, repeat
I know there are ways to assign individual kit pieces to their own audio tracks, but I find that tedious and unreliable. I have not encountered the issue you mention, e.g. bugginess of this process.
#18
Paul P
Max Output Level: -48.5 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 2685
  • Joined: 2012/12/08 17:15:47
  • Location: Montreal
  • Status: offline
Re: Freeze synth and move clip to a new track 2016/03/09 18:23:26 (permalink)

I do exactly that. When I am ready to mix AD2, I 
  1. Solo a drum kit piece
  2. Freeze the synth
  3. Copy the resulting clip to a new track solely for that kit piece's audio
  4. Unfreeze the synth
  5. Solo the next kit piece
  6. Lather, rinse, repeat
 
 
This may be where we're not connecting.  I've only seen a problem with Move.  Copy works fine (or at least it did).

Sonar Platinum [2017.10], Win7U x64 sp1, Xeon E5-1620 3.6 GHz, Asus P9X79WS, 16 GB ECC, 128gb SSD, HD7950, Mackie Blackjack
#19
tenfoot
Max Output Level: -53.5 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 2186
  • Joined: 2015/01/22 18:12:07
  • Location: Qld, Australia
  • Status: offline
Re: Freeze synth and move clip to a new track 2016/03/09 19:25:00 (permalink)
brundlefly
tenfoot
Due to this being buggy there is now no way to change the render bit depth of soft synths after the initial project setting.  Changing the render setting in preferences has no effect on bounce to track (broke in Sonar 2015).


The conditions for this issue still need clarification as I was not able to reproduce a problem other than that the project needed to be closed and re-opened for the render depth change to take effect. When last we left it, I was speculating that your case might be synth-specific, but that was never confirmed. For the benefit of others following along, here's that thread:
 
http://forum.cakewalk.com...to-track-m3374413.aspx
 
 


I have tried tried this on every vst synth I have.  Yep.  It's certainly broken, and restarting the project or Sonar doesn't fix it.  

Bruce.
 
Sonar Platinum 2017-09, Studio One 3.5.3, Win 10 x64, Quad core i7, RME Fireface, Behringer X32 Producer, Behringer X32 Rack, Presonus Faderport, Lemure Software Controller (Android), Enttec DMXIS VST lighting controller, Xtempo POK.
#20
Sanderxpander
Max Output Level: -36.5 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 3873
  • Joined: 2013/09/30 10:08:24
  • Status: offline
Re: Freeze synth and move clip to a new track 2016/03/09 20:15:06 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby tenfoot 2016/03/09 22:06:33
I also used to freeze/move as a quick and easy way to get audio from a synth. While it is not entirely as quick, if you have a split instrument track (or multiple individual outs from, say, Addictive Drums) you can actually record the audio by arming the audio track and recording. This gets you the same result. For single synth it's way slower but for AD2 with multiple outs I don't really mind it.
#21
brundlefly
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 14250
  • Joined: 2007/09/14 14:57:59
  • Location: Manitou Spgs, Colorado
  • Status: offline
Re: Freeze synth and move clip to a new track 2016/03/10 02:15:49 (permalink)
tenfoot
brundlefly
tenfoot
Due to this being buggy there is now no way to change the render bit depth of soft synths after the initial project setting.  Changing the render setting in preferences has no effect on bounce to track (broke in Sonar 2015).


The conditions for this issue still need clarification as I was not able to reproduce a problem other than that the project needed to be closed and re-opened for the render depth change to take effect. When last we left it, I was speculating that your case might be synth-specific, but that was never confirmed. For the benefit of others following along, here's that thread:
 
http://forum.cakewalk.com...to-track-m3374413.aspx
 

I have tried tried this on every vst synth I have.  Yep.  It's certainly broken, and restarting the project or Sonar doesn't fix it.  



I guess we'll just have to hope that the Bakers can reproduce it, then.

SONAR Platinum x64, 2x MOTU 2408/PCIe-424  (24-bit, 48kHz)
Win10, I7-6700K @ 4.0GHz, 24GB DDR4, 2TB HDD, 32GB SSD Cache, GeForce GTX 750Ti, 2x 24" 16:10 IPS Monitors
#22
tenfoot
Max Output Level: -53.5 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 2186
  • Joined: 2015/01/22 18:12:07
  • Location: Qld, Australia
  • Status: offline
Re: Freeze synth and move clip to a new track 2016/03/10 02:58:23 (permalink)
brundlefly
tenfoot
brundlefly
tenfoot
Due to this being buggy there is now no way to change the render bit depth of soft synths after the initial project setting.  Changing the render setting in preferences has no effect on bounce to track (broke in Sonar 2015).


The conditions for this issue still need clarification as I was not able to reproduce a problem other than that the project needed to be closed and re-opened for the render depth change to take effect. When last we left it, I was speculating that your case might be synth-specific, but that was never confirmed. For the benefit of others following along, here's that thread:
 
http://forum.cakewalk.com...to-track-m3374413.aspx
 

I have tried tried this on every vst synth I have.  Yep.  It's certainly broken, and restarting the project or Sonar doesn't fix it.  



I guess we'll just have to hope that the Bakers can reproduce it, then.


Shouldn't be too difficult given that you too found that it did not change without restarting -   all we are really debating here is how broken it is. 

Bruce.
 
Sonar Platinum 2017-09, Studio One 3.5.3, Win 10 x64, Quad core i7, RME Fireface, Behringer X32 Producer, Behringer X32 Rack, Presonus Faderport, Lemure Software Controller (Android), Enttec DMXIS VST lighting controller, Xtempo POK.
#23
Jump to:
© 2025 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1