Freezing Problems!

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MorganT
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2012/02/23 12:51:46 (permalink)

Freezing Problems!

My current project is starting to get a little glitchy, so I decided to freeze several tracks to free up resources (something I had not done previously.)  Freezing a guitar track running through Guitar Rig (version 4 on one track, version 5 on the others), most of the time I get a displayed signal after rendering that looks nothing like the initial signal.  One looked like it was almost enirely peaked out the whole time, and there was a LOT of audible distortion.  The recorded signals before freezing are running -6 to -12 dB peak, after processing with Guitar Rig.  That's problem ONE.  SECOND: After it freezes the track, then I can only playback the frozen track or other tracks by soloing them.  If I turn off solo, no audible output even though meters are showing signal.  I have to close Sonar and re-open to get sound back.  Finally, why I am I getting glitching -- it doesn't seem that I have that many processes running to cause it.  (Roughly 5 guitar tracks with Guitar Rig, 4 or 5 vocal tracks with either reverb or Guitar Rig, 2 drum synths with reverb on some of the individual tracks.)
 
Hardware:  Sweetwater Creation Station Intel i5, 3.33GHz.  4 GB RAM, running Windows 7.  Using Cakewalk UA-25EX interface.
Using Sonar XT Producer Expanded.  (I JUST installed Expanded, had Producer prior but had not frozen tracks.  Glitching was happening before installing Expanded.)  Using ASIO driver, buffer size set to Max.
#1

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    lorneyb2
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    Re:Freezing Problems! 2012/02/23 19:44:04 (permalink)
    Check if you accidentally soloed a silent bus for the second problem. 
    For the 1st problem after freezing, the wave form will be the processed wave form after Guitar rig effects are applied.  If you want to see the wave form send the output to a bus and turn on the "waveform preview" in the bus lane. This will show the processed wave form.

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    #2
    MorganT
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    Re:Freezing Problems! 2012/02/24 18:19:15 (permalink)
    Freezing problem -- my pre-effect signal is low (running -24 to -18 dB), after Guitar Rig is -12 to -6 dB.  But when I freeze it, the waveform is totally peaked out, the meter still shows the same dB range, but audibally it is distorting -- and it was not prior to freezing.  It's like the freeze process is cranking the gain up somehow.  Not sure how...

    Second problem -- I checked again, all busses not Solo'd.  If all solo's are off, nothing plays, I have to solo the just-frozen track to hear anything.  Then anything else I solo too will also play.  Once I un-solo the frozen track, though, I get a popping sound and the Master channel shows over-saturated signal even if the track is stopped and not playing...
    #3
    hueseph
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    Re:Freezing Problems! 2012/02/24 18:33:43 (permalink)
    So, all updates and quick fixes installed? Have you updated guitar rig? I"m going to try and duplicate this right now. I'll let you know how it works out.
     
    If there is anything at all soloed, you will see it in the transport bar.  

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    #4
    hueseph
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    Re:Freezing Problems! 2012/02/24 18:40:47 (permalink)
    Nope. Everything worked fine over here. I have to assume that Sweetwater fully optimised your system for you.

    Dell XPS 8700
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    #5
    lorneyb2
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    Re:Freezing Problems! 2012/02/24 19:39:33 (permalink)
    Have you hidden any tracks that are soloed?  Are you using collapsed folders that may have a soloed track in it? that  Bring up the Track Manager under the Tracks menu in Track View.  If any boxes are unchecked that would indicate hidden tracks.  Also check for for cloned tracks that are not muted.

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    #6
    MorganT
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    Re:Freezing Problems! 2012/02/26 16:08:32 (permalink)
    I updated Guitar Rig and installed QuickFixes (hadn't done that yet), but no change.  When I freeze the track with audible on, the output sound is LOUD (much louder than that track by itself when solo'd.)  However, with the exception of the one run through Guitar Rig 4 that super-saturated, when I play the track back after freezing it sounds as prior.

    I still have to shut down to play back; nothing is solo'd.  I have no hidden tracks.  As soon as I try to play, I get popping from both channels, lots of static, only goes away when I re-solo the track just frozen.  Still have to shut Sonar down and re-open to play back. 

    I've tried this on an entirely different project with same outcome, so would appear to be something across all my projects and not unique to this one...

    Thanks for help.  Any other suggestions?
    #7
    lorneyb2
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    Re:Freezing Problems! 2012/02/27 00:25:06 (permalink)
    After you freeze the track does the Guitar Rig print in the FX Bin go dim(mer) or is it still bright?  It almost sounds as if it(GRig) is staying active or not closing out properly after you freeze the track and if you had it soloed prior to the freeze that could be what is locking up the solo as well.

    It may be worthwhile sending the project in to Cake to see if there is something they can spot.


    (Added edit) Another possibility would be a direct monitor feedback loop.  That is, what the track is outputting is going out to the UA-25 and is being sent back to the track when you are doing the audible freeze. 
    post edited by lorneyb2 - 2012/02/27 00:45:46

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    #8
    BenMMusTech
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    Re:Freezing Problems! 2012/02/27 00:34:42 (permalink)
    Have you checked the render at 32 bit box, I know you are not suppose to have audio clipping but when I use GR4 I always am in the red.  If you have ticked the render box with anytyhing lower it can cause clipping.

    I don't know about the 1st problem, I have had a similar problem I tend get out of Sonar and restart the audio interface, this tends to fix the problem.

    Peace Ben

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    #9
    Bristol_Jonesey
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    Re:Freezing Problems! 2012/02/27 03:30:24 (permalink)
    Have you tried simply freezing the synth as opposed to freezing the track?

    These are 2 different actions with 2 different results. you can set it so that any Fx in the track are kept unfrozen, i.e. active so you can carry on mixing without the load of the synth itself impinging on your project.

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    #10
    MorganT
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    Re:Freezing Problems! 2012/03/13 21:50:52 (permalink)
    I think I solved part of the problem.  I took out the single instance of Guitar Rig 4 in this project and replaced it with GR 5 with the same settings.  No more glitchiness or static.  Tracks freeze OK.

    I still get the second problem -- cannot play back the project after freezing, get what seems like an an overloaded left Master channel.  Only plays solo'd tracks thereafter.  Once I close and re-open Sonar I'm fine.  I have nothing solo'd prior to freezing. I have it rendered at 64 bit.  This is an actual guitar track, not a synth, so I was in effect trying to freeze the effect (Guitar Rig) by freezing the entire track.  I had assumed that too many instances of GR was causing the problem -- although it seems having an instance of GR4 and GR5 in the same project was the main problem to start with.  (Even with all instances turned off it still caused glitching -- must be a common-named file that created the problem?)
    #11
    MorganT
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    Re:Freezing Problems! 2012/05/25 21:20:46 (permalink)
    Just an update for anyone who runs into a similar problem.  I was having the problems as noted, and a lot of latency in Guitar Rig that made it nearly impossible to play with effects on - even with all settings to optimize speed.  At a friend's suggestion, I totally de-installed Guitar Rig 4, and Guitar Rig 5, then re-installed Guitar Rig 5.  ALL problems cleared up -- latency, glitchiness, track freezing problems, etc.
    Looks like I should have totally de-installed GR 4 before installing 5, there must be some shared files that were screwing things up.  All's cool now, back to having fun!
    #12
    gcolbert
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    Re:Freezing Problems! 2012/05/26 09:15:28 (permalink)
    Thanks for taking the time to post your solution and findings.
    #13
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