Helpful ReplyFriday's Tip of the Week #167: Behold! Dual Mono Becomes Stereo!

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ljb500
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Re: Friday's Tip of the Week #159: The Matrix View Sampler You Can Trigger with MIDI Track 2017/08/25 18:52:15 (permalink)
Brando
Nice tip Craig. Like Zargg I need to take another fresh look at Matrix View. To ljb500 : there are a lot of ways to do 'this'. Phatmatik Pro used to be my favourite tool for this but alas is only 32 bit and has been retired. I think the built in (maybe not anymore?) Cyclone does it too as long as the loop is acidized before import. But automapping each slice is less helpful than selecting only desired slices and mapping those specifically to desired midi keys or using the slices elsewhere.
Nice!


Cyclone is a joke. Sonar needs a decent integrated sampler that can deal with acid loops in the appropriate way.
dubdisciple
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Re: Friday's Tip of the Week #159: The Matrix View Sampler You Can Trigger with MIDI Track 2017/08/25 19:42:58 (permalink)
Maybe i will have another look at matrix view
Anderton
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Re: Friday's Tip of the Week #159: The Matrix View Sampler You Can Trigger with MIDI Track 2017/08/25 20:01:33 (permalink)
dubdisciple
Maybe i will have another look at matrix view



I just figured out something really interesting about it. I had thought you couldn't save a template with a blank Matrix View that would retain MIDI learn assignments. So, if you wanted to use it as a sampler as described in my tip, that would mean re-assigning each cell every time. However, I found that if even one cell contains a loop, then the Matrix View will remember MIDI Learn assignments for all cells, whether empty or not. This is pretty cool if you want to save a template where the cells are pre-assigned to something like a Novation Launchpad or whatever.

The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
Brando
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Re: Friday's Tip of the Week #159: The Matrix View Sampler You Can Trigger with MIDI Track 2017/08/25 22:25:48 (permalink)
ljb500
Brando
Nice tip Craig. Like Zargg I need to take another fresh look at Matrix View. To ljb500 : there are a lot of ways to do 'this'. Phatmatik Pro used to be my favourite tool for this but alas is only 32 bit and has been retired. I think the built in (maybe not anymore?) Cyclone does it too as long as the loop is acidized before import. But automapping each slice is less helpful than selecting only desired slices and mapping those specifically to desired midi keys or using the slices elsewhere.
Nice!


Cyclone is a joke. Sonar needs a decent integrated sampler that can deal with acid loops in the appropriate way.

Wasn't an endorsement. I don't think Cyclone is/(was) a "joke" at all. Just badly in need of updating.

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chuckebaby
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Re: Friday's Tip of the Week #159: The Matrix View Sampler You Can Trigger with MIDI Track 2017/08/26 00:49:50 (permalink)
Great tip. Will be very useful in the future.
post edited by chuckebaby - 2017/08/26 09:17:47

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gswitz
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Re: Friday's Tip of the Week #159: The Matrix View Sampler You Can Trigger with MIDI Track 2017/08/26 04:49:49 (permalink)
I got a tip!!
 
Try this one...
https://youtu.be/NQRrKgalJEQ
 
Useful for blending between two synths by turning a panning nob.

StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
fcarosone
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Re: Friday's Tip of the Week #159: The Matrix View Sampler You Can Trigger with MIDI Track 2017/08/26 10:43:12 (permalink)
Brilliant! Apart from precision in a custom slicing (in LCV), there is  one more advantage of having the process inside Sonar, which is speed (some vst samplers need time just to open, to initialize a new empty instrument, drag'n'drop is not guaranteed so you need to open a browser to navigate to the loop).
 
Two minor questions:
1. With the whole loop selected, I hit tab and S, then the selection goes to the left side of the cursor, so I need to select the right side of the cursor (containing the part of the loop that has yet to be sliced) before hitting tab and S again. Your video was amazingly fast because the right side keeps always the selection. Where do you set the option, on splitting, to keep the right part selected?
2. drag'n'drop of individual slices to Session Drummer 3 and Rapture Pro worked fine. When I drag to Matrix View the cell plays the whole loop. Which option should be set there? From your video you don't seem to trim the individual clips nor bounce to clip.
 

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chuckebaby
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Re: Friday's Tip of the Week #159: The Matrix View Sampler You Can Trigger with MIDI Track 2017/08/26 15:10:56 (permalink)
fcarosone
 Your video was amazingly fast because the right side keeps always the selection. Where do you set the option, on splitting, to keep the right part selected?

In preferences/Editing/clips/Selection after split. The default is left, change it to right.

 
 
fcarosone
2. drag'n'drop of individual slices to Session Drummer 3 and Rapture Pro worked fine. When I drag to Matrix View the cell plays the whole loop. Which option should be set there? From your video you don't seem to trim the individual clips nor bounce to clip.

 
Select all clips after they are all split / right click on any slice and choose "Apply trimming" / They will all be trimmed.

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fcarosone
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Re: Friday's Tip of the Week #159: The Matrix View Sampler You Can Trigger with MIDI Track 2017/08/26 18:19:36 (permalink)
Thanks for the clue to the right-selection option in splitting, but the 2nd issue is not answered yet, when I drag a slice into Matrix View it plays the whole loop. In Craig Anderton's video, he does not trim (and I actually see that the trim applies to audio clips but not groove clips). I guess it must be a matter of Matrix View opts before dragging
post edited by fcarosone - 2017/08/26 18:56:52

"Below the realm of the musical note lies the realm of microsound. Sound coalesce, evaporate, and mutate into other sounds" (Curtis Roads)
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chuckebaby
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Re: Friday's Tip of the Week #159: The Matrix View Sampler You Can Trigger with MIDI Track 2017/08/26 20:15:55 (permalink)
fcarosone
 and I actually see that the trim applies to audio clips but not groove clips.



You can actually see what now ? by watching the video ?
 
I believe I asked the same question here
http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3648045
 
I didn't see him applying trimming in the video, so Im guessing that when dropping a slice in the matrix, it will play the clip (and the slip edited data), not just the slice if trimming is not applied.
 
Hence my reply to -Select all / -Right click on a slice/ -Choose "Apply trimming".
 
fcarosone
I guess it must be a matter of Matrix View opts before dragging

 
I Don't think there is one.
 

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fcarosone
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Re: Friday's Tip of the Week #159: The Matrix View Sampler You Can Trigger with MIDI Track 2017/08/26 21:48:53 (permalink)
Yes, we're asking the same question. While watching the video, I saw he doesn't trim, but when I do the same my result is that Matrix View plays the whole loop, not the slice.
 
In my original post, I was interested in dragging to Session Drummer or Rapture Pro: in that case drag'n'drop works (the individual slice plays) so CA actually answered my post fully. The question is about Matrix View. Did the right-click apply trimming work in your case? Not in mine.
 
I explain verbosely. Let's split a simple audio track and for instance  move the right portion of the split away to the rightside to make space. When I click its left edge and drag it to the left, the original left side of the audio track comes out again. But if, after moving, I right mouse/apply trimming, when I click the left edge and drag to the left, I see nothing. That's what I mean by trimming, i.e. cutting the hidden data outside the edges of a splitted clip.
When I do the same game to a slice of a Groove clip or ACID loop, split by a tab +S keyboard command, I always see the original hidden data coming out from the edges, even if I do apply trimming. By this experience (and not by seeing the video), I wrote "I actually see that the trim applies to audio clips but not groove clips". Since the rightmouse/ apply trimming does not apply trim, when I drag'n'drop to Matrix View it plays the whole loop anyway.
 
 

"Below the realm of the musical note lies the realm of microsound. Sound coalesce, evaporate, and mutate into other sounds" (Curtis Roads)
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Anderton
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Re: Friday's Tip of the Week #159: The Matrix View Sampler You Can Trigger with MIDI Track 2017/08/27 00:05:15 (permalink)
I must be careful to indicate when I'm using keyboard shortcuts in the background 

The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
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Re: Friday's Tip of the Week #159: The Matrix View Sampler You Can Trigger with MIDI Track 2017/08/27 01:25:46 (permalink)
So is my tip for cross-fading stereo tracks with a pan pot kinda not that cool?
 
I was super proud of the idea. It's one of the more clever thoughts I've had for routing.
 
It makes the envelopes on the two aux tracks identical for cross fading between synths. You can rhythmically fade between synths by twisting the pan pot in time with the tune.
 
I do know that you can group controls and invert their behavior to automate faders to go up and down inversely. I recognize there is nothing revolutionary here.
 
Anyway, this is the link again...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQRrKgalJEQ
 
Here's a link to the Sonar Project.
http://stabilitynetwork.blob.core.windows.net/g-tunes/PanningTrick.7z
 
If you think it's cool, please let me know.

StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
Anderton
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Re: Friday's Tip of the Week #159: The Matrix View Sampler You Can Trigger with MIDI Track 2017/08/27 01:58:30 (permalink)
I just checked, and trimming does not work in this situation. I didn't catch it because I have Alt+C assigned to "Bounce Clip to Itself," which is what I use to make sure a clip is the clip, and nothing else.

The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
Anderton
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Re: Friday's Tip of the Week #159: The Matrix View Sampler You Can Trigger with MIDI Track 2017/08/27 02:02:20 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby gswitz 2017/08/27 02:13:05
gswitz
It makes the envelopes on the two aux tracks identical for cross fading between synths. You can rhythmically fade between synths by twisting the pan pot in time with the tune...If you think it's cool, please let me know.



Yes, it is cool - I think the coolest part is that you use the same envelopes, so if you change one you can change the other.
 
I think I might try this with acoustic and electric rhythm guitar parts.

The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
gswitz
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Re: Friday's Tip of the Week #159: The Matrix View Sampler You Can Trigger with MIDI Track 2017/08/27 02:13:44 (permalink)
Totally. It would work with any type of part, and it doesn't have to be stereo tracks, but it does also work with stereo tracks.
 
The fact that it works with stereo tracks means that the tracks you cross-fade between using the pan pot don't have to have the same placement in the stereo field. You could cross back and forth between a guitar panned left and a guitar panned right for when each musician takes a quick break, giving you careful balance over each one.
 
Also the volume envelope of each track is independent of the cross-fade.
post edited by gswitz - 2017/08/27 02:41:47

StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
fcarosone
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Re: Friday's Tip of the Week #159: The Matrix View Sampler You Can Trigger with MIDI Track 2017/08/27 10:39:45 (permalink)
Glad you answered CA,
thanks for the feedback: so, also at yours, trimming does not work on Groove Clips and you bounced to clips before dragging to Matrix View.
 
I'm interested: Bounce to Clip applies to the selection; so if you apply it at the end of the process, and select all clips, it will bounce to one clip (which of course you don't want); if you apply it in the middle of the process,  when you are splitting the slice , you need a standard "left portion selection after split" in the Preferences, while we put the same option to "right portion" to be fast at splitting. Watching the video, it seems you too had the right portion after slip selected, so when did you apply the bounce to clip command, while slicing or at the end or with a second pass (not shown)?
Unless you know a command that I don't know,  "Bounce the clip to itself". Does this mean that we have a chance of selecting multiple clips and make them bounced and kept separated? I don't find it.
I have a foggy recall that once I did it in X1 after Audiosnap, but I don't remember, all in all also there in the end you had a lot of clips to be bounced, perhaps an option in freezing.
 
Or should we just ask CW to make trimming work on Groove Clips in the next version? Or make Matrix View "understand" the single slice, as Session Drummer and Rapture/Dimension do, and seems reasonable?

"Below the realm of the musical note lies the realm of microsound. Sound coalesce, evaporate, and mutate into other sounds" (Curtis Roads)
http://www.carosone.eu/
Anderton
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Re: Friday's Tip of the Week #159: The Matrix View Sampler You Can Trigger with MIDI Track 2017/08/27 15:35:27 (permalink)
You have to bounce individual clips; you can't bounce multiple clips to themselves (unless they're on separate tracks) or they'll bounce into one big clip.
 
Note that part of the reason for doing this tip is so I can audition each slice before committing to placing it in the Matrix View, Session Drummer, etc. So my workflow is shift+spacebar to audition the clip. If I want to use it, then I apply the custom keybinding alt+C prior to bounce prior to dragging over. I've traditionally just dragged over to Session Drummer 3, so I'm still getting the workflow down with Matrix View.

The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
fcarosone
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Re: Friday's Tip of the Week #159: The Matrix View Sampler You Can Trigger with MIDI Track 2017/08/27 16:16:58 (permalink)
Anderton
 I've traditionally just dragged over to Session Drummer 3, so I'm still getting the workflow down with Matrix View.

So do I; but your latest efforts are in a right and interesting direction because Matrix View, compared to Session Drummer and Rapture, has a potentially infinite number of slots where to drag, and may take rex, acid, Groove clips, simple audio, simple midi, step sequencer, midi loops, so it is really an ambient where I can put my own recordings and synths along with commercial loops and samples, and has many ways of triggering them (more than a sampler).
Now we understood that we can make it output MIDI, and that we can put single slices fast in there.

"Below the realm of the musical note lies the realm of microsound. Sound coalesce, evaporate, and mutate into other sounds" (Curtis Roads)
http://www.carosone.eu/
Anderton
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Re: Friday's Tip of the Week #159: The Matrix View Sampler You Can Trigger with MIDI Track 2017/09/01 19:00:10 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Steve_Karl 2017/09/01 20:56:57
Week #161: SONAR Audio Stretching Options Explained
 
There are five ways that SONAR can stretch audio Clips to conform to tempos other than the ones at which the clps were recorded—but it’s crucial to choose the right tool for the right job.
 
AudioSnap
This was SONAR’s answer to Pro Tools’ Beat Detective, although AudioSnap has other talents as well. It works best with the kind of material that would also work well with REX files, i.e., tracks with percussive transients like drums, percussion, bass, rhythm guitar, non-legato leads, etc. My main use of AudioSnap is to quantize audio clips to a grid, and for this application, it works very well provided that a) you remove transients that aren’t needed, and b) add transients that are needed. This takes anywhere from a few seconds to a few minutes, depending on the size of the clip.
 
Using AudioSnap with program material is possible, but there are better alternatives…keep reading.
 
Groove Clips
This is the best solution where you need a clip to follow tempo and/or key changes, or want to be able to bring a loop quickly and easily into a project with a different tempo compared to the clip’s native tempo. Note that the Browser has an option to audition the Groove Clip at the host tempo so you can evaluate whether the fidelity is suitable for the amount you want to stretch.
 
Limitations: 
  • You can speed up Groove Clips (often 150% and beyond) and they’ll still sound good, but you’ll hear artifacts when slowing down much more than 5-10%.
  • Libraries with Groove Clips (“Acidized” files) sometimes aren’t edited very carefully, so you’ll think they don’t stretch well—even though they often will if you take the time and effort to open the clip in the Loop Construction view, and edit where the transient markers fall.
  • The technology works best with short clips. You wouldn’t want to use it to stretch a two-minute song, nor can you past 128 beats.
  • When you convert a clip to a Groove Clip, SONAR makes a guess about how best to stretch it. Sometimes it’s off and you need to enter the number of beats in the clip manually.
 
DSP Stretching
This is the best general option. It works well for program material or individual clips. For example suppose you have a 4-bar loop recorded at 120 BPM and you want to stretch it to fit in a song that’s 110 BPM, so the loop needs to be longer. While holding Ctrl+Shift, click and drag the end so the clip lasts four measures in the song with the tempo of 110 BPM. Note that you can even apply this to a Region FX Clip, although I don’t think this uses Melodyne’s algorithms.
 
Limitations: 
  • The real-time preview will likely have artifacts, however you can bounce the clip to itself; this uses the offline, high-quality iZotope Radius stretching algorithm. For reasonable amounts of time-stretching, the quality is quite good.
  • You can’t “roll out” a loop like you can with Groove Clips. However, you can copy it and “Paste Special” for as many repetitions as you want, starting wherever you want.
  • Clips stretched with DSP don’t follow tempo or pitch changes.
 
“Tape Varispeed” Effects
This does time-stretching like the old tape varispeed options, as described in this article. It uses the Loop Construction view, but has nothing to do with creating loops. Like tape, it is remarkably free of artifacts but does alter formants.
 
Limitations: 
  • Stretching time also changes pitch, although sometimes this is what you want.
  • This isn’t something the Loop Construction window was designed specifically to do, so sometimes you need to trim the resulting clip.
 
 Anchoring One-Shots to the Timeline
This is more like creating “do it yourself” REX files. For example suppose you drag a kick one-shot to each beat of a measure. If you speed up or slow down the measure, the kicks will still be on each beat. Although this is time-consuming, with proper editing you can have a part that stretches to almost any tempo. Check out this article for more details. [https://www.soundonsound....ch-drum-loops-smoothly]
 
Note that you can use AudioSnap’s “Split Beats into Clips” function to cut a file into one-shots, and anchor those to the timeline. This can speed up the process considerably with clips that have well-defined transients.
 
Limitation:
  • It takes time to build loops this way.
 
 But Wait! There’s More!!
 
Although it’s not a SONAR core program solution per se, you can also use Melodyne to stretch time. However I haven’t really delved into it that much, because the DSP stretching function does the job and sounds good.
 
 
 

The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
JohnEgan
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Re: Friday's Tip of the Week #159: The Matrix View Sampler You Can Trigger with MIDI Track 2017/09/01 20:05:35 (permalink)
Anderton
Week #161: SONAR Audio Stretching Options Explained
 
DSP Stretching
This is the best general option. It works well for program material or individual clips. For example suppose you have a 4-bar loop recorded at 120 BPM and you want to stretch it to fit in a song that’s 110 BPM



Does it work as well speeding up, I tend to more often want to speed something up a little bit like a rhythm guitar, once i listen back?

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Anderton
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Re: Friday's Tip of the Week #159: The Matrix View Sampler You Can Trigger with MIDI Track 2017/09/01 22:15:26 (permalink)
Yes, and like all audio stretching, it works best when speeding up. This is because when speeding up, you can remove data (which is pretty trivial) but when slowing down, it's necessary to create data that never existed.

The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
ljb500
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Re: Friday's Tip of the Week #159: The Matrix View Sampler You Can Trigger with MIDI Track 2017/09/02 07:43:41 (permalink)
Anderton
Yes, and like all audio stretching, it works best when speeding up. This is because when speeding up, you can remove data (which is pretty trivial) but when slowing down, it's necessary to create data that never existed.




With the DSP stretching im guessing you could stretch it, bounce it and convert to a groove clip to then roll it out instead of pasting ?
Zargg
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Re: Friday's Tip of the Week #159: The Matrix View Sampler You Can Trigger with MIDI Track 2017/09/02 08:02:27 (permalink)
ljb500
With the DSP stretching im guessing you could stretch it, bounce it and convert to a groove clip to then roll it out instead of pasting ?

Hi. I often do what you describe ,with luck.
All the best.

Ken Nilsen
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ljb500
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Re: Friday's Tip of the Week #159: The Matrix View Sampler You Can Trigger with MIDI Track 2017/09/02 08:13:39 (permalink)
Zargg
ljb500
With the DSP stretching im guessing you could stretch it, bounce it and convert to a groove clip to then roll it out instead of pasting ?

Hi. I often do what you describe ,with luck.
All the best.


Cool, thanks.
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Re: Friday's Tip of the Week #159: The Matrix View Sampler You Can Trigger with MIDI Track 2017/09/02 13:54:37 (permalink)
Zargg
ljb500
With the DSP stretching im guessing you could stretch it, bounce it and convert to a groove clip to then roll it out instead of pasting ?

Hi. I often do what you describe ,with luck.
All the best.




Thanks for the info.

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Anderton
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Re: Friday's Tip of the Week #159: The Matrix View Sampler You Can Trigger with MIDI Track 2017/09/02 15:12:37 (permalink)
ljb500
Anderton
Yes, and like all audio stretching, it works best when speeding up. This is because when speeding up, you can remove data (which is pretty trivial) but when slowing down, it's necessary to create data that never existed.




With the DSP stretching im guessing you could stretch it, bounce it and convert to a groove clip to then roll it out instead of pasting ?


Yes, but remember there may be artifacts with groove clips you wouldn't have with DSP, depending on the audio itself, the amount of pitch shift, and how accurately the transient markers are placed.

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ljb500
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Re: Friday's Tip of the Week #159: The Matrix View Sampler You Can Trigger with MIDI Track 2017/09/02 15:30:31 (permalink)
Anderton
ljb500
Anderton
Yes, and like all audio stretching, it works best when speeding up. This is because when speeding up, you can remove data (which is pretty trivial) but when slowing down, it's necessary to create data that never existed.




With the DSP stretching im guessing you could stretch it, bounce it and convert to a groove clip to then roll it out instead of pasting ?


Yes, but remember there may be artifacts with groove clips you wouldn't have with DSP, depending on the audio itself, the amount of pitch shift, and how accurately the transient markers are placed.


Thanks, this is exactly what I wanted to know. Would also love to hear more about melodyne , played with it briefly and looks like it has a lot of possibilities.
JohnEgan
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Re: Friday's Tip of the Week #159: The Matrix View Sampler You Can Trigger with MIDI Track 2017/09/02 16:04:33 (permalink)
Anderton
Yes, and like all audio stretching, it works best when speeding up. 

Totally awesome tip, I just did whole song with DSP method, I never realized it was that easy to audition audio songs at different BPMs, I bounced all track clips to be a single clip per track, aligned all to end at same time, and aligned with end of midi tracks to know where to (un) stretch/align audio clips to after changing BPM (+ 5 BPM). Worked like a charm, all tracks aligned perfectly, (and my guitar riffs faster LOL)
LOL, its only after doing all this I realized I could have simply done it with my full mix export file, or my already processed MP3 files, which both worked great also. 
Thanks
Cheers   

John Egan
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fcarosone
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Re: Friday's Tip of the Week #159: The Matrix View Sampler You Can Trigger with MIDI Track 2017/09/03 09:19:18 (permalink)
Anderton
DSP Stretching
Note that you can even apply this to a Region FX Clip, although I don’t think this uses Melodyne’s algorithms.
 But Wait! There’s More!!
 Although it’s not a SONAR core program solution per se, you can also use Melodyne to stretch time. However I haven’t really delved into it that much, because the DSP stretching function does the job and sounds good.


I use Melodyne all the time, so I can add to the post what I learned when upgrading to Sonar Professional recently from X1,  getting to use ARA and did some tests.
DSP Stretching: Melodyne has to be "awaken". If one creates a RegionFx ->Melodyne, then the ctrl-shift right-border dragging on that region is performed by Melodyne's algorithm. I write this because I read it somewhere (don't recall if in cakewalk's or melodyne's website, they both have tutorials). But, moreover, once Melodyne is awaken and alive on that region fx clip, melodyne's algorithms are applied to any Region Fx Clip you create in the project then, because the ARA protocol is estabilished. When the "melodyned" regionFx Clip is bounced (so melodyne is dead), if there are still some region fx clips, when you bounce them then they are bounced by Sonar (Radius). So the question I ask myself when bouncing is: is melodyne alive now in this project?
 
Melodyne stretch: I've done some experiments at slowing a whole clip (2 beats) 10%, it seems nothing better than Radius, perhaps more extreme settings should be compared. So I use Radius for the general stretching (also in Audiosnap, offline). Melodyne is really effective at other tasks, i.e. when you alter the single notes within a clip, both in pitch and timing, minor to major, etc. (for instance I've got a commercial loop library with 40+construction kits, they are all minor: having one solution to adapt to song tempo, key and major scale is practical and it's done well within Melodyne ARA)
 

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