From 3 to 7 Gig of RAM, and NOTHIN'!

I'm very confused. I was having playback problems in large projects, so decided it was time to upgrade my RAM; Went from 3 Gb to 7 Gb.
 
Nothing has changed. I am still getting audio engine stoppage and stuttering playback. I have done everything I can think to do. I'm mixing a 44 track song right now, and in order for it to play without audio engine failure (although still with quick drop outs every four or so measures) I have to set my ASIO latency to 2048, enable Read Caching and set that to 2048, and enable playback buffers of 2048. Everything is absolutely maxed in that regard. There is nowhere else to go.
 
Here's the real kicker for me though: I don't understand the Performance Module in the Control Toolbar very well, but I do see that it shows the disk space I have available--248 Gb (28%)--and then the system memory--2.6 Gb (18%). What I don't understand is why that latter number doesn't change much! I mean, it might go to 2.7 Gb, but it also drops down to 2.3 Gb. Other than that, there is no real change. Isn't this the amount of RAM being allocated, basically? If so, why won't it use what I'm offering? It isn't changing, and I'd think the caching and such would force it to transfer stuff to memory, taking the load off the main system.
 
Finally, my computer isn't the worlds fastest, but it is in good shape and I was able to run MC6, MC6T, Sonar X3 (the basic one) and Reaper all without any of this level of problem. I've mixed more than 60 tracks on Reaper and Sonar X3, and the only thing in the current tune is the number of tracks--no midi or other such things. I realize the processing of prochannels and such is more intensive perhaps, but I've also more than doubled my RAM.
 
What gives? I really am getting tired of hearing my songs stutter out and fail every few measures no matter how high or low I set everything in the Preferences. Following are my basic system specs:
 
AMD Athlon 64 X 2 Dual Core 5000+
Windows 7 64-bit
7 Gb RAM
Duo-Core
Onboard Audio is Realtek High Definition Audio
Interface is A.R.T. USB Dual Pre
 
I think that's the main stuff?
 
Any help is GREATLY appreciated! What am I missing or not understanding here?
 
 

Hey, griz, how do you get 7Gb ram? usually you need matched pairs...then again, whadda I know?  
 
I agree with brundle, update cpu... I went from i7950 stuttering to i74930 smooth as silk with huge Diva patches... several, when just ONE instance of the mighty girl would squash my 950....Always ran into issues...and while I fixed many, CPU was the biggy.
 
AMD cpu's are sooooooo cheap these days and all use the same mobo... so, get the fastest u can afford and you'll b squeelin' in ectasy! best bang for the buck, at least with the very generously priced AMD line.

Hey everyone. Thanks for all the quick responses and info.
 
Let me try to address a couple things in the hopes of clarifying and also understand better. Seems like you guys know your computer talk.
 
It seems that 2 among you concur that RAM doesn't play much of a role, and normally I would agree. But are you saying that even when using Read/Write Caching it isn't a factor? Seth Kellogg from Cakewalk told me that I should increase those numbers and consider getting more RAM because that's what it does. Buffers, in effect, info into memory and pulls it from there. This is why I'm confused.
 
Next, I realize that the CPU thing is at the heart of matters, but at the same time, I'm not sure I understand why going to X3 Studio from the Music Creator series and the regular Sonar X3 would cause this kind of an impact. I never had to increase my ASIO latency above 512 in those days--not ever. How does adding RAM not help a LITTLE, not make things worse?
 
Finally, to your points mettelus, I agree and am aware that the over-high settings could be the problem. In fact, just for grins I went to the simplest of all driver modes, MME-32, for some testing, and found that if I was right on the fence with a latency setting of 20 ms. Moving either to 30 or to 10 caused the problem to get worse.
 
I have messed with setting all over the place. I'll try using your specific instructions, step-by-step, but it seems that at this point I can't get anything to work, in the ASIO driver mode, below a latency setting of 2000 samples, with very high buffers along with that. I'll start super low though, and work my way up like you suggest.
 
Oh, and finally, as to the 7 GB of RAM, I have 4 slots in my motherboard. I already had a useable 1 GB stick, so I just added three 2 GB sticks to three slots and kept a 1 GB stick in the remaining one. Viola'! 7 GB.
 
PS: I froze about 13 tracks, and the problem has cleared up for now, but I've still got everything maxed in terms of latency and buffering/caching. This sucks.

Just to let you know good sirs, I followed the start low and work up plan. With 13 tracks frozen, I couldn't even get sound to play at all until I reached an audio buffer of about 756 and  I/O buffers of 1024. Things did not get smooth until I reached an audio buffer of 1280 and I/O buffers of 1024.
 
So there we have that. (Oh, and I did disable read/write caching also. Not sure I can detect any difference, at any setting level, with that. Again, that really surprises me; I figured that would be the game changer, especially with the new, improved RAM situation.) 

I am wondering if your CPU may be the key player in this whole equation. When you are freezing tracks you are freeing up the CPU load, and the buffers allow for the other devices to pace themselves while the CPU is "doing its thing."
 
I may have missed this some place, but was wondering how the CPU is loaded when you have been playing with this project?
 (The reason I ask is when my audio engine dropped from buffers, my CPU was only running 15%)

What about HDD controllers?,,,I was having issues like this aswell , my motherboards HDD controller was a MLC micron chip...and it seems to have problems which may be causing my issues with playback with SSD and HDD streaming in Sonar 1x ,2x, 3x...
Unfortunately the MLC micron controller firmware is out dated and cannot be flashed on my Board...So I had to change the MB board....and that is still being built, due to issues with new power supply toasting my new boards.
 
Technology....isn't it wonderful?
 
Not saying this is your problem...What Motherboard and controller is on that system?.
 
I would start by turning off redundant onboard devices in the Bios...example onboard sound, firewire, wi fi, and internet nic...if you got em.
And give that a whirl... 

@guigz:
You wrote:
The fact that sonar indicates 2.8Gb ram usage is just normal. It displays the ram it uses and not ram available.
 
Agreed, but the ram it uses could be also the ram available.
Often my elder 32 bit systems show 2,6- 2.8 gb ram used by sonar.
 
I still recommend to try out a real audio-interface.
To run sonar with an onboard chip is compareable  
driving a porsche targa 911 on 13 inch wheels.
 
Another matter could be that you have installed Sonar as 32 bit version.
 
Have fun
Pragi
 
 
 

 
@Blades,
The arte device is not a soundcard/interface, it´s an USB-Pre-Amp.

1. As pointed out, RAM just isn't going to make the big difference you expect it to. Even with larger buffers. It will help with streaming tracks from the disk, and when dealing with large sample libraries, but this isn't where most of your CPU goes in the first place. 
 
2. Plugins eat up the most CPU and are the most likely culprit. If you're running lots of EQs, compressors, reverbs, pro-channel modules, you can easily eat up all of your CPU on a 44 track project. I can easily bring my i7 to it's knees on a 15 track project if I wanted to.  Your options are, 1) use fewer plugins, 2) use less CPU intensive plugins, 3) be clever about how to use fewer plugins (for instance bussing), 4) get an external DSP card like a UAD for extra juice, then buy some of their plugins, 5) upgrade your CPU. The faster CPU's get, developers will take more and more advantage of the extra processing cycles, so as your CPU speed increases, your track count might stay the same based on which plugins you use.
 
3. Last point: sometimes you'll have to increase latency/buffers just to deal with plugins that introduce large amounts of latency. For instance, SKNote's Verbtone crackles and pops with low latency, and always requires larger buffers.

Wow, tons of stuff to go over there.
 
First of all, a couple people said that my A.R.T. Dual Pre unit is not an audio interface. That is incorrect. It is a preamplifier AND a Computer Audio Interface. I've had no problems with it whatsoever at any point previously, so let's take that out of the equation.
 
2nd thing a couple people asked is about my Windows version. It is, without a doubt, Windows 64-bit. Also, for the record, Windows 32-bit can only handle 4 GB of RAM, but my system shows that it has 7Gig to use. I did wonder, however, about that 2.6G (approximately) mark X3 is showing me in usage; that is the exact same number it was showing me when I was running with only 3 Gb of RAM. It is almost as if Sonar X3 doesn't realize I have the 7 Gb available or something.
 
Let's see, what else? I am not loading my Realtek at all; in fact, I have disabled all my sound options except for my USB CODEC which is the interface.
 
It was noted that using 7 Gb of RAM was odd as well, and I tend to agree. However, I've tried things using 6 Gb (three 2 Gb cards inserted) as well, and no change in any way.
 
To my mind, this is coming down to the unfortunate possible reality that what many people here have indicated is correct: RAM doesn't matter much. I find that incredibly hard to swallow and, frankly, disappointing. If RAM isn't at play, then what is the point of Read/Write Caching at all? It seems to me that system intensive programs would go out of their way to utilize the resources available to help run things smoothly. A lot of people asked about the plug-ins involved, but like any 44 track mix, one can assume there are going to be a lot of them, and of course I understand they bear down on the system. However, that doesn't change the fact that upping the RAM SHOULD have helped a lot (considering more than doubling what I had), and instead it did absolutely nothing. And as one person noted, the 2.6 Gb usage shown by X3 is just that--its usage. So when I had 3 Gb of RAM, it showed me the exact same number, meaning either it doesn't know I've added RAM, or it simply refuses to call upon it as a resource.
 
I'm pretty much stuck until someone can tell me how to get it to use the RAM I've got! I'll also be looking at the CPU upgrade prices. In this regard, I'm a complete computer idiot.

hey scook,
 
What is "FWIW?" Don't know that one. The projects were all received at the same bit-depth, but I am using 96K now for a sampling rate as opposed to 48k before. I use, when importing audio, the "original" selection. Not sure what that actually does, because my screen will usually show me at 96K and 24 bit even if I've imported a 16-bit project.
 
 

ampfixer
FWIW, my computer guy tells me that ram has to be used in matched pairs of modules or the system will be unreliable. I would try installing 2 ram modules and see how it works. RAM is so cheap it doesn't make sense to used mis-matched modules.

It won't be unreliable...It will just be slower. No impact on system stability.

ampfixer
FWIW, my computer guy tells me that ram has to be used in matched pairs of modules or the system will be unreliable. I would try installing 2 ram modules and see how it works. RAM is so cheap it doesn't make sense to used mis-matched modules.

I agree. Couldn't hurt to try.
 
Mike