Front Vs Back mixing

ok, well everyone knows what panning does....

top-bottom is essentially frequency. we perceive lower frequencies to be lower than higher frequencies. it helps that most speakers have the tweeter above the woofer but even with headphones it's the same. there's not much you can do about this but EQ.

the big one is front-back. basically what you want to do is give the illusion of space between the listener and the source. in the real world, two things happen as the source moves further away from the listener (unless we are talking a 1000 acre field in kansas, then it's just #1):

1. the fundamental and resonant frequencies of the source (those frequencies with the most energy) become dominant. for example on vocals you will not hear the breathy sound or the deep throaty scary movie voice-over tones, just the middle ranges. however bear in mind that we perceive higher ranges better than lower ones so the mids are typically more dominant over the lows.

you can use EQ to achieve this effect by high-passing the lows and low-passing the highs but give preference to the highs or you will get that "in-the-next-room" muddy hollow sound. use a very mild Q (like less than 1) to give a more natural sound or you'll end up going harsh with it which does not sound distant. you may need to dip somewhere in the middle to get a more realistic sound but once you know what to listen for you can experiment until you get it right.

2. the reflection of sound off surrounding objects becomes louder in relation to the source, until the reflection is all that is heard.

this is all reverb and delay, but remember #1 - you'll probably want to high and low-pass the verb too or you'll get muddy resonance (again, the "in-the-next-room" sound) or high-end metallic stuff. pre-delay for this is pretty important, the less pre-delay the further away the sound will seem. more pre-delay gives a fuller but still present sound. probably most importantly, if you go nuts with reverb no one will get it. you have to be subtle to achieve the effect so people don't know it's an effect. unless you want the whole marble cathedral-ish sound... =)

you can also chain delay and verb if you want a more precise pre-delay than what the verb plugin provides or even better you can make the left and right delays different times which will enhance the spatial effect (but don't overdo it).

ok, i think i get your question...

in general you should have one lead instrument pretty up front. this could be a synth lead, or lead vocal or whatever. if you have a lead vocal then the synth leads should support the vocal by being further back - how far is really just a matter of taste. you probably want them in front of the pads but passing them back and forth depth-wise could be a cool effect.

hi-hats are generally further back from the front of the kit than cymbals although they typically have more presence in rock mixes. i suppose it depends on whether you want to mix from the band's perspective or the audience. if you plan to have a fast hi-hat groove it may be wise to lay off the verb so you don't muddy it up but you could still use EQ to send it further back.

most percussion stuff is fairly far back in the mix and off to the side. piano should probably be middle or more to the front depth-wise unless you want a lost-in-space sound. i think tons of reverb on piano is pretty cliche but that's just me. really i think tons of reverb on anything is cliche but everyone has their own tastes. in electronica i suppose a lot more emphasis is placed on 3-d depth.

really though there aren't any depth standards that i'm aware of beyond the basic 4/5-piece band (vocal, guitar/s, bass, drums) and it seems like you know most of that already.

ORIGINAL: jacktheexcynic

ok, i think i get your question...

in general you should have one lead instrument pretty up front. this could be a synth lead, or lead vocal or whatever. if you have a lead vocal then the synth leads should support the vocal by being further back - how far is really just a matter of taste. you probably want them in front of the pads but passing them back and forth depth-wise could be a cool effect.

hi-hats are generally further back from the front of the kit than cymbals although they typically have more presence in rock mixes. i suppose it depends on whether you want to mix from the band's perspective or the audience. if you plan to have a fast hi-hat groove it may be wise to lay off the verb so you don't muddy it up but you could still use EQ to send it further back.

most percussion stuff is fairly far back in the mix and off to the side. piano should probably be middle or more to the front depth-wise unless you want a lost-in-space sound. i think tons of reverb on piano is pretty cliche but that's just me. really i think tons of reverb on anything is cliche but everyone has their own tastes. in electronica i suppose a lot more emphasis is placed on 3-d depth.

really though there aren't any depth standards that i'm aware of beyond the basic 4/5-piece band (vocal, guitar/s, bass, drums) and it seems like you know most of that already.

w0000t

thanks jack
This is what I was looking for.

more ideas/tips on this matter will be great.

ps- sry for the late I had few shows in brazil

if you have some samples of arrangements i could probably be more precise - without that it's hard to be anything but general. i may have already said it but when it comes to bass instruments, i would roll off highs to simulate depth rather than adding reverb. i just think it sounds better. =)