Frustration!

Well, five months after buying my new computer and two months after buying Sonar X2 studio, I thought I finally had things up and running and figured out, and could try actually recording something.  Silly me!!
 
"Input Echo" allows me to monitor as I'm recording - if I don't mind hearing each note about 3 seconds after I play it.  And, regardless of whether Input Echo is on or not, Sonar often s-l-o-w-s down and distorts the playback as I'm recording.
 
Guess it's a call to Tech Support tomorrow morning for me.  Sorry to rant in the forum, just a bit flabbergasted at how long it takes to actually do something with this new software.  (This is why I resisted upgrading from my old reliable Cakewalk Pro Audio 9 for so long - I knew the learning curve for new software would be steep, but had no idea just how steep!!)
 
I did finally get a finished guitar part onto one song - took about 2.5 hours.

Well, you're obviously not new to Cakewalk, but have you made sure you are using the best drivers for your audio device? And talking of audio device, what are your full specs please? If we have your workstation specifications it may be possible to help you out and save you the call to Cakewalk support.

cheers

andy
 
 
edit: oops... sorry Glyn, you pressed post a second or so before me LOL

Bypass all FX to make sure you aren't hearing a delay instead of the original signal.

specs man, wheres your specs bro ?
what soundcard are you using ?
the same one you were using with pro audio 9 ?

LOTS AND LOTS of folks here in the forum lend assistance to those struggling with setting up things to reduce latency, but in all cases things like the following are needed to be provided by the person posting the problems:

1.  Windows - what version (7/8?), what bit-level (32/64?), is your Windows installation at current Microsoft maintenance levels for patches?

2.  For computer itself for latency issues: information on how much memory, the processor, any video cards, any other cards, disk drive types and speed, and configuration of drives (what types of programs/data are loaded onto each installed drive on the computer).  There may also be software running in the background that is interfering with things, such as anti-virus software or other process-intensive tasks.  In addition, for Windows 7 you can download and run the DPC Latency checker - freeware that displays a running graph of latency detected on your system, and will let you know if there are latency problems with your current system's configuration.  For Windows 8, a different program is needed - LatencyMon is another freeware program that works fine on Windows 8 to provide you actually quite a bit more info in the same vein.

3.  For the audio interface: info on the EXACT model of interface, the EXACT driver and firmware versions installed, if it is a PCI/PCIe connection to the computer, if it is a USB connection to the computer then do you have is plugged into a USB 2 or a USB 3 port.  Also, what are the settings for Sample Rate and ASIO Buffer Size - (sometimes the buffer may be set using something like 'Number of Samples').

4.  For Sonar: 32 or 64 bit version installed?  In Preferences, what are the current settings for Sample Rate and record bit-depth, and what are the displayed values for the Latency (reported interface latency and total round-trip latency?  And, please detail PRECISELY what plugins your project is using, as some of the plugins will cause massive latency in recording tracks.  Some of the plugins are meant to be used post-tracking, such as for mastering.  (some use look-ahead processing, which will kill you for latency during recording of tracks).  And, have you tried a simple proejct, with just an audio track inserted and an MP3/WMA song imported into the audio track, then simply played back to check for distortions or latency?

5.  Are you possible doing direct monitoring?  If so, you will hear latency due to the time it takes processing to occur in Sonar.  If you are, then you want to change to monitor Sonar's output.


Sooooooo, original poster, please review the above and respond to all of the above, so that we can do our best to assist you.

Bob Bone

The TS-64 Transient shaper will induce latency.  Try pressing "E" to disable all FX, or delete the TS-64, and see if latency improves, then add the TS-64 when you've finished tracking.

ro_ca_@hotmail.com


Processor: Intel core 7-3770 CPU @ 3.40 GHz
Memory: 8.00 Gb
64-bit Os
Win 7 Pro, Service Pack 1
Drive: WDC WD5003AZEX-00K1GAO ATA
Video: Intel Graphics 4000
Soundcard: M-Audio Delta 1010 in PCI slot, Driver ver 6.0.8; sample rate = 44100, ASIO/WDM buffer size=512 samples (same card as I used for CW9, though I did update the driver)
Sonar X2 Studio (X2 build 306) - don't know if 32 or 64-bit
Sampling rate=44100
Buffers in playback queue=2
Effective latency=11.6 msec
Playback I/O buffer size=128 Kb
Record I/O buffer size= 256 Kb
Plugins: FX Chain "Kick Drum Life 2" (Sonitux Equalizer, TS64 Transient Shaper) and Cakewalk Delay (on Vox)
No other programs running; computer has not internet connection, is dedicated solely to recording.
Not sure about direct monitoring, how do I find this out?
The project has 10 audio tracks (including guitar part I recorded yesterday)

Thank you SO much for the detailed reply.  As jb101 says, do try hitting the 'E' key on your computer keyboard to temporarily bypass all effects to see if that isolates the issue to a plugin. (hitting 'E' again will enable them all again).

I forgot to ask, are you using ASIO or WDM as the driver mode in Sonar?  Try using ASIO - you can change that in Preferences.

The direct monitoring would mean monitoring inputs to the audio interface, such as a guitar, using a feature on some interfaces, instead of monitoring the OUTPUT from Sonar.  This results in hearing near-zero latency from the direct monitoring, followed by the processed sound from Sonar, which will have some latency, resulting in an annoying echo sort of effect.

Bob Bone

I would download the X2a 64 bit update (build 351), it fixed a lot of my problems...

Sad reality is PCI is now a legacy connection so it doesn't get the attention from comp parts manufacturers it used to. They've moved on to PCIe and now those of us with quality functioning gear that relies on PCI have lost some power. I was pretty annoyed that after all my research into my comp build that the PCI slot was substandard. The good news though is that many folks around here are still using their 1010s with good results. Like I said it might just take some targeting tweaking. I used the Sweetwater Optimization Guide (but that includes some tweaks not recommended by Cakewalk so it's best to contact them for more details). There are lots of other optimization guides out there too like from Focusrite, SOS and I think there is a blog post somewhere here on site as well.

The other thing that you should look into is that 32 vs. 64 bit installation. Click the Sonar help menu at the top of the screen and select About. It will give you details on what installation you have running including the 32/64 bit status. If you are indeed running 32 bit you should install the 64 bit version to make better use of your RAM. You are using a heavy duty plug (transient shaper) while recording and it might be sucking up all your RAM. Not sure if this will cause drop outs but it's not ideal. You should actually remove it or freeze the track it's on until you are done tracking. That might help get rid of the crackles and hopefully then you can reduce your buffers to get rid of the latency. Generally you want as little plug ins processing signals as possible while recording and reduce your buffers then increase the again for mixing/adding effects.

You should still get a hold of support though for those optimization tweaks. They will help any system immensely even if it turns out not to be the cause of your problems.

I have the delta 1010 running fine with X2. My (cpu) system is a little older and slower than yours - I use a Q9550 chip with Win8. I would go crazy trying to record guitar at 512 samples. 

I record through X2 with the delta 1010 ASIO buffer size set to 128 samples for projects that already have several tracks recorded. (I start with 64 samples and then move up to 128 as the project grows)

If you want to do direct monitoring with no regard to buffer size - then you can do that by monitoring through the delta1010 mixer control panel. Your recorded source will not have the benefit of any plugin effects for you to listen to while recording, but you can go this route for close to zero latency. I tired this before but I went back to the 'thru sonar' approach.

Latency is largely introduced on my system through plugins. So I make sure I bypass any effects in the master buss and also bypass any resource hungry plugins or known latency causing plugs like perfect space or the cakewalk linear plugs while recording (this applies to playback tracks and busses as well). You can always do a temporary/permanent freeze of any vsti tracks. There is also the PDC button on your toolbar you can engage to compensate for plugin latency. But in my opinion that will be of little use to you until you get the buffer size lowered and playing nice with your daw - any daw.

With all that said, your answer may well be your new motherboard doesn't work well with pci cards. That should be easy to find out with a little googling or posting your motherboard specs here.

The delta 1010 is an older generation card and some day I will replace it. But the quality of sound from this card is still considered to be very good. I think it's worth a small fight to try and make it work.

Latency-induced dropouts can also occur due to latency spikes present in the computer's hardware/software configuration, in addition to the above mentioned causes.

That is what running DPC Latency Checker can tell you.  There can be bad device drivers or background services running that can jack up the latency on your computer, independently of Sonar, but that affect sound quality in Sonar.

If you change settings on your audio interface, it is recommended that the audio interface be cycled off/on, or a reboot, whichever is easier for you.

I believe you should switch to the ASIO driver mode in Sonar, trying to run at 24-bit recording depth at 44100 Sample Rate for Sonar, and also 44100 Sample Rate and an ASIO Buffer Size of 128 for your audio interface, as a starting point.

Once you have those settings, try the following:

1.  Play a song through Windows Media Player and listen for audio problems, assuming you have set your audio interface as your default playback/recording device for Windows.

2.  Fire up Sonar, creating a new Normal project.

3.  Insert an audio track, then select that audio track.

4.  Import an MP3/WMA song file to the audio track in Sonar that you selected.

5.  Try playing that back, and listen for audio problems.

6.  If the above works, try recording a simple guitar track, with NO effects, and see what happens, posting back your results to this thread.

Bob Bone

Which Motherboard are you using?
 
 -JJ