Helpful ReplyFx directly on audiofile

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schnibbelkram
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2016/04/24 12:18:50 (permalink)

Fx directly on audiofile

Hi,
im using Music Creator 7 for an Audio Drama. Since the scenes are at different locations (house,woods, cave) i need to put several fx directly on the audio file and not on the track itself. But i could not figure out how to do that.  A Right-click on the file opens a menu, but it doesn´t give me the options i would need.
 
 
#1
nureg
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Re: Fx directly on audiofile 2016/04/24 14:33:30 (permalink)
1.Click on the audio file. 2. Use the process button then Audio Effects. 3. Choose your effect then click ok. That will put the effect only on the selected audio and not the whole track.
 
 
from the help in Music Creator
The Process-Apply Audio Effects command (which is greyed-out if you're not currently using any audio effects) opens the Apply Audio Effects dialog box. Applying an audio effect means that the audio data that you apply the effect to is permanently altered to sound like it would if it was flowing through an effects processor in real time. Applying an effect saves a lot of your processor's power for other tasks that must be done in real time.
#2
Beagle
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Re: Fx directly on audiofile 2016/04/25 08:46:07 (permalink)
why do you need to do that?
 
if you have sound FX set up on separate tracks, they will still be printed together at that point when you export to a wave or mp3.

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#3
schnibbelkram
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Re: Fx directly on audiofile 2016/04/28 03:07:09 (permalink)
Im not a native english speaker, but i will try my best to translate my thoughts into eglish .
Each "actor" has its own track with its individual adjustmets on FX like de-ess ,eq, compression. So i can`t put all the voices just on one (for example) "cave" track, or can i ? Did i get your point right?
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schnibbelkram
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Re: Fx directly on audiofile 2016/04/28 03:35:17 (permalink)
@nureg: what i figured out , Process>Audio FX will not let me choose the effects ,but will put all the fx from the track directly to the audio file.
When i right click on th file , Music Creator actually gives me the option to choose an audio effect from my vst folder ,but the "preview" button does not work. No sound or movement when i click on it.
 
post edited by schnibbelkram - 2016/04/28 04:15:53
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schnibbelkram
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Re: Fx directly on audiofile 2016/05/01 08:04:46 (permalink)
nobody with a helpful awnser for me out there ?
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57Gregy
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Re: Fx directly on audiofile 2016/05/01 10:09:37 (permalink)
Welcome to the forum.
I think you can put all the effects you need in the FX bin and on/off automate them as needed.
Or, what I would do, split the track where each scene begins and drag the scenes to different tracks and put the needed effects in their respective scene tracks' FX bins.

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#7
schnibbelkram
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Re: Fx directly on audiofile 2016/05/01 11:20:20 (permalink)
Hey Greg,
thx for your suggestions. Nr.1 sounds good, but woudn`t it eat up too much CPU? I would need several diffferent reverbs/presets on each track.
Nr.2 im not really shure if i understand you here . "Split the track" means i can split a single track?
If i would use an extra track for each actor in all the different scenes, wouldn`t this also eat up alot of CPU (would be also alot of work)?
I just started to work with the Music creator. I worked about 10 years with the Magix MusicMaker series and i love this DAW for it´s symplicity. But it crashes way too often,especially when working with/editing audio files, and thats a pain in the neck ; thats why i switched to Music creator7.  I did the audio drama with elementary school students and need to finish the project; they would be so dissapointed if i would let them down on this ...
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57Gregy
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Re: Fx directly on audiofile 2016/05/01 11:27:51 (permalink)
In MC7, you place the cursor where you want a split to occur, right-click, select Split.
Then drag the clip after the split to anther audio track and do the same for each scene.
Yes, more effects means more processor usage, but if you have a modern computer (what are it's specs?) it shouldn't be a problem. If it is, you can then select the track, Process>Apply Effect which will remove the effect from processing and permanently render that effect to the track.
I would make a copy of the uneffected project before doing any destructive editing.

Greg 
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#9
schnibbelkram
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Re: Fx directly on audiofile 2016/05/01 11:56:14 (permalink)
"In MC7, you place the cursor where you want a split to occur, right-click, select Split."
So i dont split the track but the audio file, right? actually i don´t need to do that ,since all the audio files are like single sentences. Also i recorded all the actors seperat. I must puzzle it all together and insert all the sound fX that it becomes an audio drama.
My Pc`s specs:
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Audio Device: Steinberg UR22
 
 
#10
Kalle Rantaaho
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Re: Fx directly on audiofile 2016/05/03 04:54:50 (permalink)
schnibbelkram
"In MC7, you place the cursor where you want a split to occur, right-click, select Split."
So i dont split the track but the audio file, right? actually i don´t need to do that ,since all the audio files are like single sentences. Also i recorded all the actors seperat. I must puzzle it all together and insert all the sound fX that it becomes an audio drama.
My Pc`s specs:
Windows7
Intel Core i7 2600K @ 3400MHz
16384MB (4 x 4096 DDR3-SDRAM )
Audio Device: Steinberg UR22




Actually, you only split the audio clip, not the track or file. The original audio remains totally untouched.
If you take a split portion of a clip, say, one measure cut out of a clip of ten measures, you can slip edit the one measure to the original length of ten measures.

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#11
Strryder
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Re: Fx directly on audiofile 2016/05/04 04:46:39 (permalink)
If I'm understanding you correctly, each actor has a separate track for their dialog that has EQ + Compression + De-Esser, and such, that makes the sound of their character's voice in the play, and these effects will pretty much remain constant for the whole thing.
 
You also want to have different ambient "scene location" effects for each different "location".
 
If it were my project I would not apply the "scene" FX destructively onto all of the actor's separate tracks, I would do it with the mixing console using sends and busses,  something like this...
 
1) Create a subgroup bus and call it something like "Scene Send Master", then at the bottom of each actor's mixer channel, assign them all to this subgroup.
 
2) Create and name an AUX bus for each different scene location, such as "house", "street corner", "cave", "woods" and so on, then place the correct ambient effects in the FX bin for each scene location.
 
Now all of your actor's voices are going to a single "Scene Send Master" control where by selecting the correct send you can send them all at once to the same "location".
 
Hopefully this will help you.
#12
Beagle
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Re: Fx directly on audiofile 2016/05/04 12:59:10 (permalink)
YES - exactly what Strryder said.

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schnibbelkram
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Re: Fx directly on audiofile 2016/05/07 08:19:23 (permalink)
@Strryder : sounds awesome,logic and like just what i`m looking for. Since i never did it this way in Magix Music Maker and didn`t dive that deep into MC7 yet, i have one question : HOW DO I DO THAT ? :-)
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Strryder
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Re: Fx directly on audiofile 2016/05/09 05:32:09 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby jimfogle 2016/06/18 19:30:48
https://www.dropbox.com/s/77alx7ae862oh85/Audio%20Drama%20Bus%20Setup%202.jpg?dl=0
 
Here's a link to screenshot that shows a basic setup, Note that there are 4 buses..
 
1) "Voices" bus, all of the actor's mixer channels are routed to it, and it is routed out to the master bus.
2) "Sound FX" bus, all of the sound FX mixer channels are routed to it, and it is routed out to the master bus.
3) "Reverb/Cave" bus, has a reverb plugin patched in it's FX bin, (this plugin is set 100% wet, no dry signal), and it is routed out to the master bus.
4) "Master" bus, this has all of the buses routed to it, and it is the main output for the project.
 
The voices bus and the sound FX bus each have a send to the reverb/cave bus, by enabling these sends and adjusting the send levels you can send both the actors voices and the sound FX to the reverb/cave bus.
post edited by Strryder - 2016/05/09 06:12:06
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schnibbelkram
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Re: Fx directly on audiofile 2016/05/11 05:49:27 (permalink)
Thx...i`m trying to figure this out - with the help of the (german) manual...Why do i need 2 busses for Voices and Sound FX ?
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Beagle
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Re: Fx directly on audiofile 2016/05/11 08:56:31 (permalink)
do you want the same FX on the voices as you do on the sound FX?  if not, then you need separate busses for each so you can put different FX on each.

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Strryder
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Re: Fx directly on audiofile 2016/05/11 14:06:12 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby jimfogle 2016/06/18 19:30:32
I was thinking that it might be a good idea to be able to have the sound FX have somewhat less echo/reverb than the voices when in the cave, just so they would sound clearer, (by setting different send levels for each), and having the two main elements on separate group busses also gives you the ability to quickly and easily adjust the balance between the voices and the sound FX with just two faders.
 
In my example setup, the Voices and Sound FX busses would be considered groups or subgroups, and the Reverb/Cave bus would be considered an aux bus.
 
If you have any other scene locations that require different reverb settings, you can of course setup more aux busses and add more sends to the subgroups, most locations however will probably not need this type of plugin processing, when in a house, or outside in the woods there really wouldn't be any reverb/echo needed right?
 
When do you need to have this project finished by?
 
I hope you can get it done in time.
post edited by Strryder - 2016/05/11 14:49:19
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schnibbelkram
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Re: Fx directly on audiofile 2016/05/11 15:52:27 (permalink)
"I was thinking that it might be a good idea to be able to have the sound FX have somewhat less echo/reverb than the voices when in the cave, just so they would sound clearer"
 
I agree...good idea.
 
Usually i`m playing around with the reverb also in "rooms" and "buildings"; at least a little bit.
 
i thought i would be done with the project months ago, but since Music Maker could not be fixed, i coudn`t even start to edit. It need to be finished before the summer holidays in my state will begin, wich is at the end of july...but at least your sugessted method will make the process definitly faster, as soon a i figured out how to do it :-)
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schnibbelkram
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Re: Fx directly on audiofile 2016/05/18 13:05:14 (permalink)
Hey Guys,
if someone (Strryder?) could do a  step by step instruction (maybe with some screenshots), i would be very thankful !
I can`t seem to figure this out on my own.... :-/
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Strryder
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Re: Fx directly on audiofile 2016/05/23 11:20:51 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby jimfogle 2016/06/18 19:30:16
Open the console by going to the views menu, then select console, after it opens, place the cursor just above the top edge of the console and it will change shape into a resize/drag tool, now drag the console up to resize it. The console can be closed by clicking on the double arrow icon located on the right side of the bottom edge, this will allow full view of the track view again.
 
With the console open, click on the Bus tab and then click on "insert stereo bus" to create each new stereo bus. (There is an 8 bus limitation in Music Creator)
 
Name one bus "Voices", name one bus "Sound FX", these two busses are going to be used as subgroups.
 
Name your other busses such as "Reverb/Cave" or just "Cave" and so on, these busses are going to be used as aux busses.
 
Use the output assign box located in the In/Out module near the bottom of each channel to assign them to the correct subgroup, (actor's channels to "Voices" and sound effects channels to "Sound FX", if you have a narrator track, you might want to leave it assigned directly to the master bus so that it will not have any location reverb applied to it.
 
On each of the two subgroups go to the Sends section and click the + icon to create a send to each of the aux busses, after creating each aux send, you will need to manually turn that send off until you are ready to start setting levels and adjusting effects settings, otherwise all of the sends created would be turned on at the same time, and you don't want that!
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schnibbelkram
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Re: Fx directly on audiofile 2016/06/03 10:44:00 (permalink)
Ok,got it so far (i think)... but how do i send the voices and the sound fx (bus) at the right "time/section" thru the -for example-  "cave bus" . Is there also an automation function for it like on panning and volume? At least i couldn`t find anything like it. But it would make sence to me...and by the way - Thank you!
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Strryder
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Re: Fx directly on audiofile 2016/06/03 13:34:55 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby jimfogle 2016/06/18 19:30:02
You're welcome!
 
There are a couple of ways to do it,
 
Automation
First is by using track envelopes to automate the send levels on your voices and sound effects bus tracks, this is really the main reason to use the subgroup buses, so instead of needing to automate 6 or 8 or 20 individual sends to the cave aux bus, all of your tracks are now gathered into just two subgroup buses, now, by automating the sends on just those two buses you can get everyone into the cave at once. I don't know if the volume and panning automation you mentioned was done by clip envelopes or track envelopes, but to automate the sends on buses you're gonna need to use track envelopes.
 
 
Manual
The second way would be to mixdown each scene separately and making manual adjustments to the send levels before each scene mix, then when that's done, import all of those scene mixes into a new session, layout the scene mixes in the right order, and then do one more final mixdown to make the finished mix.
 
 
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schnibbelkram
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Re: Fx directly on audiofile 2016/06/06 11:12:50 (permalink)
...and once again i have to ask you how exactly to do that ( the first way -automation) ?
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Beagle
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Re: Fx directly on audiofile 2016/06/14 09:06:10 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby jimfogle 2016/06/15 14:53:34

http://soundcloud.com/beaglesound/sets/featured-songs-1
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schnibbelkram
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Re: Fx directly on audiofile 2016/06/15 16:09:10 (permalink)
thanks for that... but is there a different way to do it like just drawing a curve like it can be done with the paning and volume automation?
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jimfogle
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Re: Fx directly on audiofile 2016/06/15 18:18:32 (permalink)
One of the controls that can be automated is the "MUTE" button.  Mute when the actors are "outside the cave" then unmute when the actors go into the cave.

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#27
Strryder
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Re: Fx directly on audiofile 2016/06/16 17:39:14 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby jimfogle 2016/06/18 19:29:34
At this point you should have all of your tracks routed out to one of two buses, either Voices or Sound FX, this routing should be done using the In/Out controls, each of these two buses should have sends on them for each of your scene effects buses, all of these sends should be set to post-fader and turned down to -INF.

Using the little double arrow icons located on the border of each view element, collapse all of the open views, (the inspector, the browser, and the console which should be in the multi-dock) so that only the track view is open, it will now be the main work area for this automation.

In the track view, on the bottom border under the track controls there is a button that opens and closes the bus pane, this needs to be set to view the bus pane, then grab the horizontal divider and drag it up until the bus pane is taking up most of the view.

Double click in an empty area of the track controls area on the voices bus and it will expand to take up the whole visible area of the bus pane.

On the top of the track view there are two buttons, standard and advanced, select the advanced button and all of the controls will become visible.

On the voices track controls there is a button that says "None", that is the automation envelope edit filter, click on it, and in the automation menu there will be one that says Cave Send Level, clicking on that will make the envelope for automating that send level visible, you can now add nodes and write your automation.
 
Place the cursor on the timeline where you want the "cave" effect to start, and create 2 nodes about 1 second apart, then grab the node to the right and drag it up until the send level is where you want it, at the end of the scene, create 2 more nodes and drag the one to the right down to -INF to shut off the cave effect.
post edited by Strryder - 2016/06/16 18:09:59
#28
jimfogle
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Re: Fx directly on audiofile 2016/06/18 19:16:17 (permalink)
Strryder,
 
Your posts in response to the OPs questions have been extremely helpful.  I've learned a lot from reading your responses.  It is very easy to visualize the steps from the way you present them.  THANKS!

Jim F
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#29
schnibbelkram
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Re: Fx directly on audiofile 2016/06/26 10:32:27 (permalink)
Im already working on the project and doing fine so far because of all the useful advices.Some VST`s don`t work properly ,but that`s another story for another thread, i guess.  Thx to everybody who tried to help me with my issue.
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