D K,

I also don't understand why this thread turned this way when all you did was provide us with extremely helpful information.  For what it's woth (and as you probably already know), I really appreciate that you took the time to share this with us.  Please don't let what happened here dissuade you from openning these types of threads.  I for one really enjoy them, but didn't want to get too into it due to how I was challenged (with math!) for something I wasn't even arguing about :-P.

Take care!
 
 
 
 
 

DK: thanks for the kind words and also for your in depth response. The way you put it there, I can totally understand where you are coming from, and I apologize for being a bit intense in my delivery as well as my personal opinions. I honestly didn't mean to stir anything up and de-rail what you have so generously offered here as I'm sure you know. :) I think it's great that you took the time to share this stuff and like I mentioned in my first post, I really did enjoy the read. I guess you can say my opinions on this are a way of me venting my frustrations in a sense because if you think about it, most of the people we respect in this field that share information, usually give us bits and pieces and rarely get to the point in black and white. There is always something they seem to hold back, but have no qualms about sharing some theoretical explanation or a magical piece of gear. I'm sure you've read several articles that have left you scratching your head saying "hmmm...I really expected so much more".
 
I have books here with interviews featuring respected engineers. It seems they just never want to tip their hat in full or totally share methods or techniques in full. Instead we get the watered down versions that go so far astray it makes you wonder or they may try to hype some piece of gear that is the flavor of the month.
 
The older guys like Andy Johns seem to let the cat out of the bag with a smile on their faces....but the newer guys keep most of their ideas to themselves and try to make people think there is some mysterious force or magical practice or piece of gear that needs to be the focal point. Again man, it brings back the whole school curriculum thing for me. If a teacher of US history is going to take the time to teach my kid something. shouldn't it be something my kid is going to use in the real world? In THIS day and age, does it really matter what happened in 1492 if that will not help a child to survive in the real world? See my point? I feel the same about some of this stuff. It just isn't important enough to spend the time on.
 
Let me further prove my point and I bet you I have you smiling and telling me to go f myself after I share this. Ya ready? :) I don't know how good or bad of an engineer you are. I know that your posts here are always helpful, useful, passionate, respectful and informative and you seem like a really good guy. The topics you choose to talk about and express views on are always a good read as well. Now that said, from what I read from you, you're probably a pretty decent engineer that has a clue about this stuff. I like to think the same of myself. Now, here's the kicker now that I set you up with all the good hearted stuff. LOL!!
 
DK, if you and I both were given a decent pc with either a Realtek stock card or a Sh!tblaster card....do you sincerely feel gain staging, meters or any of this stuff would hinder what our final outcome would be? :) I see you smiling. LOL! Seriously man....the only thing in our mixes that *may* suffer would be us not having good converters in cards like those. But, would it really make that much of a difference for us to adhere to some of the mechanics discussed in this thread and others? How much better do you really believe some of this stuff would make us sound? I really don't think some of this stuff would make us or break us, I sincerely mean that. If something is not going to make a huge difference in the grand scheme of things, is it worth the time investment to pursue it? This is MY frustration with this field and why I respond the way I do sometimes. :)
 
I don't need the K system, proper meters or much of the technical jargon that gets mentioned to get good results on my end. My ears tell me what I need to know. No, I am not getting major label sounding material quality that you may hear today, but some of that would be subjective saying it was even that good. I think I'm darn close and can hang with anything done from the 60's to the 90's though, so for me, that's pretty good quality.
 
That said, I totally see your frustration and again apologize for some of my intense comments that may have sent your helpful thread off course. My comments of course were not to bash you, your beliefs or the information shared within this thread by credible engineers. I just think some of this stuff (though informative) will not make a huge impact on whether or not good sound is good sound coming out of the gate. Sure, there are some important things we need to know about this field. But those important things to me are completely different than what I hear supposedly credible people sharing these days. To me, the most important elements of this field are capturing good sound sources, good mic techniques that help you eliminate and identify phasing, proper use of compression, panning, eq curves that help you to carve up a mix and of course proper effects usage. To me those are the things I feel are the most important and most of them require a good set of ears, trial and error and the ability to know what to fix, when to fix it and how to fix it IF it needs to be fixed at all. All the other math and science within the field or the history of what a volt is etc....matters not to me if I can't hear what I need to hear to get a job done, ya know? What you shared here is great and I ask (hell, I'll beg instead) that you continue to do so. I love to read about stuff, I love to discuss it and I love to share my opinion regarding it. If anything, THIS is where we really learn because it allows us to read through what may be hype or science and literally see if there is a need to apply it in the real world. Thanks for your reply DK...nothing but respect man. :)

Jose7822


D K,

I also don't understand why this thread turned this way when all you did was provide us with extremely helpful information.  For what it's woth (and as you probably already know), I really appreciate that you took the time to share this with us.  Please don't let what happened here dissuade you from openning these types of threads.  I for one really enjoy them, but didn't want to get too into it due to how I was challenged (with math!) for something I wasn't even arguing about :-P.

Take care!
 
 
 
 
 

Appreciate that Jose - You are a huge contributor to helping us all..
 
I believe it's everyone's responsibility to try to give something back to the forum community - These little post are my odd little way of trying to do that. 

D K


Same here Danny - We have always been ...all good!

Keep rockin man...I'll keep listening

Good post by the way..

Thanks DK, glad I didn't upset you. Feelings are mutual...thanks for all the great posts. :)