Gapless Albums

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mattplaysguitar
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2010/08/29 04:20:28 (permalink)

Gapless Albums

So I'm in the process of writing my album. When I say gapless album, I mean the type of album where one song might flow into another song in a musical manner - kind of like a really good DJ changing songs. At the moment I only have one change between two songs where I wish to use it, but I might link more songs up if I get other ideas. Right now it's just gonna be very simple, first song on the album has a shaker in it. The song finishes and the shaker keeps going. The second song starts with a shaker. I want that shaker to go from the end of the first song right into the second song smoothly.

PROBLEMS:
Tempo is about 5bpm different. Second song faster. Don't think this will be much of a problem as I'll just increase the tempo over a few seconds at the end of the song. Could sound cool.

Each song will require different processing of the shaker. BIGGEST PROBLEM! They two songs are very different instrumentally wise. One is pretty sparse, other is quite full - in terms of instruments, frequency and time space. It's probably not going to work having the exact same processing for the two songs. If it does work, I would probably process it for the second, full song first, then use those exact same settings for the first song. Will have to give that a go and see if it works. Another option is to use the same processing from the first song and let it go part way into the second song then switch processing styles at a point in the second song's intro where you probably won't notice the sudden change. I think this might be the way to go.

I kind of need to do this as a sort of pre mastering/mastering stage. I don't want to be mixing all the songs in the one project itself! Maybe work it with stems. Mix the songs differently, then combine with two stems for each track, one stem of full song without shaker, and another stem of just the shaker. Then master these total of four stems together! Then make a single master of the two songs and split into two tracks later!

Which raises an interesting option... Has anyone ever thought of mixing an entire album in the one project? Just group each song in its own folder and hide when not in use. I can see benefits and dissadvantages. One big problem is it's gonna take a while to load and you need to have a fast computer, but a benefit is that it would be easier to really make all the songs work well together with similar processing styles. I won't do it for this album, but maybe for another album in the future? Make a seperate master bus for each song etc. Might get a little too full-on I think.


So, any ideas for gapless album mixing techniques to make things easier or anything at all really? Let your thoughts out there!! Do you even LIKE them?


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#1

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    Kylotan
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    Re:Gapless Albums 2010/08/29 07:18:14 (permalink)
    mattplaysguitar


    Each song will require different processing of the shaker. BIGGEST PROBLEM! They two songs are very different instrumentally wise. One is pretty sparse, other is quite full - in terms of instruments, frequency and time space. It's probably not going to work having the exact same processing for the two songs. If it does work, I would probably process it for the second, full song first, then use those exact same settings for the first song. Will have to give that a go and see if it works. Another option is to use the same processing from the first song and let it go part way into the second song then switch processing styles at a point in the second song's intro where you probably won't notice the sudden change. I think this might be the way to go.

    If there's a big change in the other instrumentation between the end of one song and the start of the next, you might find that you can get away with a big change in the timbre of the shaker as well at that point. Generally speaking I change the timbre of instruments quite abruptly where necessary. I write death metal and during most of the song, the drums are almost completely dry, except for reverb on snare and toms. But when the guitars stop and it's a drum solo section, I'll ramp up the ambient mics again so that the drums sound more natural, then mute them again when the guitars come back. In the context of the mix, it makes sense, and nobody notices the room sound is gone when you have 5 distorted guitars in there as well.

    Another approach is to automate some of the processing you're doing (exactly what processing is this?) to fade it in or out over the transition period. This might sound a bit weird if the effects you're using aren't particularly subtle.
    Which raises an interesting option... Has anyone ever thought of mixing an entire album in the one project? Just group each song in its own folder and hide when not in use. I can see benefits and dissadvantages. One big problem is it's gonna take a while to load and you need to have a fast computer, but a benefit is that it would be easier to really make all the songs work well together with similar processing styles.
    As I understand it, lots of producers like to work this way when recording live artists. Often they record all the drums, all the bass, all the guitars, etc., and they don't want to be switching back and forth between projects for each song. Instead it just all goes in one place, and as you say it helps out with ensuring effects and modifications are applied consistently across the whole album. After all, if you need something specific on one song, it's easier to split out an extra track or automate something for a single song than it is to keep 20 or 30 track settings and effects settings the same across 8 or 9 projects.


    #2
    Jeff Evans
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    Re:Gapless Albums 2010/08/29 08:11:16 (permalink)
    matt I have had some experience in linking multiple tracks together to form one large listening experience. I had to think about how to go about it. I found I still mixed the tracks separately but if there were elements that I wanted to continue over from one track into the next, I left that part (or those parts) out of the tracks initially but put them back in at the mastering stage. That way you can link one mixed track over to the next mixed track and although the tracks might be different the elements that linked them over held them together better.

    For instance the shaker concept is OK and the fact the tempos are slightly different is not really an issue either. (you should make a shaker part that gradually speeds up though so you can drop that in at the mastering stage. I would be more inclined to keep the shaker part not change its sound in any way, that way it will have more of a glue effect to link them better.

    In mastering I setup the mixes on their own tracks and applied the mastering processing on the tracks rather than the busses as I normally would. I also created more music and added little bits in to link things over on other tracks as well. It worked very well.

    Then you have to cut everything up and burn the CD so there is no silence in between. The cuts should be on zero crossing as well. You will still need track ID's so people may still want to listen straight to track 4 for example. You have to pick carefully too where each track ID is going to be so that if someone does jump to a track half way in, it will still sound as if it is starting OK.



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    #3
    SongCraft
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    Re:Gapless Albums 2010/08/29 08:41:34 (permalink)
    The possibilities are endless.  I may compose a transitional bridge that did not contain percussive elements whilst fading the shaker tail as the transition progresses, then possibly a brief 'silence' just prior to the next track although optional since it depends on the two songs and how you want it to flow.  It's the flow and how well the transition fits and if you want to ID them as separate tracks to queue or listed as one; title/title.

     
     
    #4
    SongCraft
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    Re:Gapless Albums 2010/08/29 08:57:54 (permalink)
    I remember a 'Jingle' a wrote for an Australian chocolate company in 1986.  To tie-in with the storyline they wanted a 'yesteryear' (old folk style) followed by a magical transition to a 'now' (modern style) the transitional part worked perfectly bridging to two parts together without pause (they flowed together seamlessly) it was indeed magical :)

    Anyway, just an idea (Transitional Bridge) that you may want to try.



     
     
    #5
    The Maillard Reaction
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    Re:Gapless Albums 2010/08/29 09:50:26 (permalink)
    I think a lot of concept albums are assembled with attention to things like key and tempo.

    IT may be helpful tp think about creating an "outline" that maps out the album and then the changes from passage to passage will make more sense... or you can tweak the changes to reflect your sensibility. Or something like that.


    #6
    bitflipper
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    Re:Gapless Albums 2010/08/29 11:11:37 (permalink)
    I wouldn't try to mix the whole thing in one project, that just seems like asking for a headache. How long would it take for that project to load? Makes more sense to mix each song separately and assemble them in a separate project.

    Often, you can match up songs that are in the same key or the same tempo and just crossfade them. It's surprising how often that works even when the tempos are different.

    When that doesn't work, you can create a short section just for bridging them, like SongCraft was talking about. It doesn't have to be fancy and will usually only be a few seconds long. It might be a percussion break that morphs from one rhythm to another, or if you really want to keep it simple, just an amorphous synth pad with no identifiable tempo.

    It would be really cool, I think, to come up with one bridge section and use it for every transition as a kind of repeating theme. You'd just modify the start and end of it to match the songs it's joining up. I've never actually done that, but it's something I've always wanted to try.


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    Kylotan
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    Re:Gapless Albums 2010/08/30 08:51:31 (permalink)
    bitflipper


    I wouldn't try to mix the whole thing in one project, that just seems like asking for a headache. How long would it take for that project to load? Makes more sense to mix each song separately and assemble them in a separate project.

    If you're recording a band in the studio, it probably doesn't matter that it takes 2 minutes to load a project at the start, since you're going to have your DAW turned on for the next 8 hours!

    Trying to 'assemble' the lot in a separate project sounds like a nightmare if you're doing it at the mixing stage. Fine for mastering when you only have a handful of tracks to worry about, but trying to get a track from one Sonar project into another, with all buses, sends, and effects intact, has never been a simple procedure in my experience.
    #8
    The Maillard Reaction
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    Re:Gapless Albums 2010/08/30 09:06:34 (permalink)
    "I think, to come up with one bridge section and use it for every transition as a kind of repeating theme. You'd just modify the start and end of it to match the songs it's joining up. I've never actually done that, but it's something I've always wanted to try."

    I do this all the time... I use a sample I stole off a John Cage recording and I fade it up between every song. Old school.


    #9
    The Maillard Reaction
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    Re:Gapless Albums 2010/08/30 09:11:55 (permalink)
    "Trying to 'assemble' the lot in a separate project sounds like a nightmare if you're doing it at the mixing stage."

    It just matters where your head is at.... think about using a tape deck and a mixer and a lot of outboard gear... what changes on a studio like that?

    Once you are familiar with a projects basic patch or routing it isn't that hard to maintain consistency over a few (or a dozen) .cwp files.

    best regards,
    mike


    #10
    Slugbaby
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    Re:Gapless Albums 2010/08/30 10:51:41 (permalink)
    mattplaysguitar

    Tempo is about 5bpm different. Second song faster. Don't think this will be much of a problem as I'll just increase the tempo over a few seconds at the end of the song. Could sound cool.

    I saw Black Rebel Motorcycle Club live a few years ago.  The drummer was playing to a click, and bridging from one song to the next he played a simple pattern that would speed up or slow down in a few measures.  He literally didn't stop playing for 2 hours, and it was a really cool way to connect songs.
    I'm thinking of doing something similar for my next batch, although it means a LOT more planning before mastering.

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