General Instability

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davisb24
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2017/04/05 03:46:46 (permalink)
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General Instability

Hi,
Can anyone at Cakewalk help me to figure out why SONAR crashes so often for me?  I try to put detailed descriptions on each crash reported, but at this point its just the same descriptions over and over. I was really hoping this latest release would resolve the issues, but they are still continuing.
 
Muting/unmuting or turning all FX on/off seems to cause problems about 50% of the time.  Though there are plenty of times where it just seems to crash for no reason.  Typically a few seconds after hitting play or immediately upon hitting stop after recording. 
 
I'm running latest platinum on 24GB RAM, i7-4790K, Windows 7 64 bit. Using a Scarlett 18i20 interface and a motu MIDI box. ASIO driver settings are 44100 sample rate and 1024 sample buffer size (Anything less than this and I get clicks/pops while mixing.)
 
Here are my crash reports since the new year. I'd be happy to provide more information if necessary:
 
https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Contact/Problem-Report-Status/65488
https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Contact/Problem-Report-Status/66338
https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Contact/Problem-Report-Status/66818
https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Contact/Problem-Report-Status/66819
https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Contact/Problem-Report-Status/67271
https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Contact/Problem-Report-Status/67272
https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Contact/Problem-Report-Status/67809
https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Contact/Problem-Report-Status/67810
https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Contact/Problem-Report-Status/68139
https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Contact/Problem-Report-Status/68140
https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Contact/Problem-Report-Status/69036
https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Contact/Problem-Report-Status/69037
https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Contact/Problem-Report-Status/70267
https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Contact/Problem-Report-Status/70581
https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Contact/Problem-Report-Status/70583
https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Contact/Problem-Report-Status/70704
https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Contact/Problem-Report-Status/70725
https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Contact/Problem-Report-Status/70727
https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Contact/Problem-Report-Status/70896
https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Contact/Problem-Report-Status/70897
https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Contact/Problem-Report-Status/70900
https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Contact/Problem-Report-Status/71099
https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Contact/Problem-Report-Status/71388
https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Contact/Problem-Report-Status/71395
https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Contact/Problem-Report-Status/71513
https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Contact/Problem-Report-Status/71514
https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Contact/Problem-Report-Status/71522
https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Contact/Problem-Report-Status/71784
https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Contact/Problem-Report-Status/71785
https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Contact/Problem-Report-Status/72165
https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Contact/Problem-Report-Status/72961
https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Contact/Problem-Report-Status/72966
https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Contact/Problem-Report-Status/73807
https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Contact/Problem-Report-Status/73925
https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Contact/Problem-Report-Status/74963
https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Contact/Problem-Report-Status/76023
https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Contact/Problem-Report-Status/76029
https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Contact/Problem-Report-Status/76136
https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Contact/Problem-Report-Status/76218
 
I avoided music for the most part in March due to frustration. So there are fewer crash logs in March, but at this point I am averaging a crash every 45 minutes.  Any help is greatly appreciated.
 
Thanks,
Brandon
 

SONAR Platinum x64; Win7; i7 4790; 24GB RAM; 1TB SSD; Focusrite Scarlett 18i20
#1

21 Replies Related Threads

    msorrels
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    Re: General Instability 2017/04/05 15:42:15 (permalink)
    +1 (1)
    Other forum user's can't read your crash reports (so posting links to them doesn't help).  If you put one(or a couple) of the crash dumps somewhere we could download it, I'm sure someone on the forum (maybe me) would be happy to open it in a debugger and tell you what is crashing.
     

    -Matt
     
    #2
    Taurean Mixing
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    Re: General Instability 2017/04/05 20:59:03 (permalink)
    +1 (1)
    davisb24
    Hi,
    Can anyone at Cakewalk help me to figure out why SONAR crashes so often for me?  I try to put detailed descriptions on each crash reported, but at this point its just the same descriptions over and over. I was really hoping this latest release would resolve the issues, but they are still continuing.
     
    Muting/unmuting or turning all FX on/off seems to cause problems about 50% of the time.  Though there are plenty of times where it just seems to crash for no reason.  Typically a few seconds after hitting play or immediately upon hitting stop after recording. 
     
    I'm running latest platinum on 24GB RAM, i7-4790K, Windows 7 64 bit. Using a Scarlett 18i20 interface and a motu MIDI box. ASIO driver settings are 44100 sample rate and 1024 sample buffer size (Anything less than this and I get clicks/pops while mixing.)
     
    Here are my crash reports since the new year. I'd be happy to provide more information if necessary:
     
    https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Contact/Problem-Report-Status/65488
    https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Contact/Problem-Report-Status/66338
    https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Contact/Problem-Report-Status/66818
    https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Contact/Problem-Report-Status/66819
    https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Contact/Problem-Report-Status/67271
    https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Contact/Problem-Report-Status/67272
    https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Contact/Problem-Report-Status/67809
    https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Contact/Problem-Report-Status/67810
    https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Contact/Problem-Report-Status/68139
    https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Contact/Problem-Report-Status/68140
    https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Contact/Problem-Report-Status/69036
    https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Contact/Problem-Report-Status/69037
    https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Contact/Problem-Report-Status/70267
    https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Contact/Problem-Report-Status/70581
    https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Contact/Problem-Report-Status/70583
    https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Contact/Problem-Report-Status/70704
    https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Contact/Problem-Report-Status/70725
    https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Contact/Problem-Report-Status/70727
    https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Contact/Problem-Report-Status/70896
    https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Contact/Problem-Report-Status/70897
    https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Contact/Problem-Report-Status/70900
    https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Contact/Problem-Report-Status/71099
    https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Contact/Problem-Report-Status/71388
    https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Contact/Problem-Report-Status/71395
    https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Contact/Problem-Report-Status/71513
    https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Contact/Problem-Report-Status/71514
    https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Contact/Problem-Report-Status/71522
    https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Contact/Problem-Report-Status/71784
    https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Contact/Problem-Report-Status/71785
    https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Contact/Problem-Report-Status/72165
    https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Contact/Problem-Report-Status/72961
    https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Contact/Problem-Report-Status/72966
    https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Contact/Problem-Report-Status/73807
    https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Contact/Problem-Report-Status/73925
    https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Contact/Problem-Report-Status/74963
    https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Contact/Problem-Report-Status/76023
    https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Contact/Problem-Report-Status/76029
    https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Contact/Problem-Report-Status/76136
    https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Contact/Problem-Report-Status/76218
     
    I avoided music for the most part in March due to frustration. So there are fewer crash logs in March, but at this point I am averaging a crash every 45 minutes.  Any help is greatly appreciated.
     
    Thanks,
    Brandon
     


    Hey Brandon,
    Could you by any chance list the plugins being used in the session that crashes? And if it is any session that crashes, tell me what's the 1 plugin always in your sessions. 

    Bob
    taureanonlinemixing.com
    Sonar Platinum x64
    3930K (ADK) Win 7 x64
    #3
    davisb24
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    Re: General Instability 2017/04/06 03:14:08 (permalink)
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    The following plug-ins appear in most of my projects: R-Mix, Melodyne, BREVERB, SHEPPi spacial enhancer, a number of Cakewalk built-ins like console emulator, and any combination of Fab-Filter G/Q2/MB/DS/C2/T2/L.
     
    The dump files all give the following exception description: "The thread tried to read or write to a virtual address for which it does not have the appropriate access." According to the debugger the exceptions occur in different spots in the stack trace.
     
    Here are some recent crash dumps:
    https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B0zTyRVNNqqZUk1QYkpJQzN2NVU
    https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B0zTyRVNNqqZVmZ4dk8xX2hfZkU
    https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B0zTyRVNNqqZMnFrSk5WOThWYjQ
    https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B0zTyRVNNqqZcmV1cEh5Y25Pc3c
     
    Thanks

    SONAR Platinum x64; Win7; i7 4790; 24GB RAM; 1TB SSD; Focusrite Scarlett 18i20
    #4
    Taurean Mixing
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    Re: General Instability 2017/04/06 12:31:08 (permalink)
    +1 (1)
    R-Mix might be a problem. But try process of elimination and see what happens. Load a brand new session then introduce them one by one. Each time, play around a little bit, perform playback, click on parameters then introduce another and repeat. Also, make sure plugins are up to date. Fabfilter for example I know just recently addressed some bugs with updates for all plugins. 

    Bob
    taureanonlinemixing.com
    Sonar Platinum x64
    3930K (ADK) Win 7 x64
    #5
    msorrels
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    Re: General Instability 2017/04/06 13:45:23 (permalink)
    +1 (1)
    The first crash is r-mix's trex64.dll
     
    I have to run out and won't be able to look at the others till later, but I'd bet the others are similar.  R-mix is pretty buggy.

    -Matt
     
    #6
    msorrels
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    Re: General Instability 2017/04/06 16:31:12 (permalink)
    +1 (1)
    Crash 1:  R-Mix trex64.dll  Other threads have R-Mix, Addictive Drums, Rapture Session, PCS-GlossEQM, LP64_EQ, Rematrix Solo, Tape Emulator-64, Console Emulator Bus and Channel, TH2 Producer, BREVERB2, Melodyne and a bunch of BitBridge plugins (no way to tell what it was bridging to, but as a rule 32-bit plugins aren't very reliable).  Scarlett ASIO driver.

    Crash 2:  Just SONAR in the crashing thread. Only Cakewalk could tell you what it was doing.  No plugins in the call stack of the crash.  Other threads have R-Mix, Addictive Drums, Rapture Session, PCS-GlossEQM, LP64_EQ, Rematrix Solo, Tape Emulator-64, Console Emulator Bus and Channel, TH2 Producer, BREVERB2, Melodyne and a bunch of BitBridge plugins (no way to tell what it was bridging to, but as a rule 32-bit plugins aren't very reliable).  Scarlett ASIO driver.

    Crash 3: Just SONAR in the crashing thread.  Looks like Crash 2 only with no BitBridged plugins this time.  R-Mix, PCS-GlossEQM,REmatrixSolo,Tape EMulator, Console Emulator Bus and Channel, TH2 Producer, BREVERB2.  Scarlett ASIO driver.

    Crash 4: R-Mix trex64.dll is the only thing in the crashing thread call stack.  Looks just like Crash 1.
     
     
    Given that R-Mix will crash SONAR if you look at it funny, I think it's safe to say that it is definitely part of your problem.  It doesn't work and they won't fix it.  If you want SONAR to not crash you'll have to stop using it.
     

    -Matt
     
    #7
    dcumpian
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    Re: General Instability 2017/04/06 17:06:50 (permalink)
    +1 (1)
    msorrels
    Given that R-Mix will crash SONAR if you look at it funny, I think it's safe to say that it is definitely part of your problem.  It doesn't work and they won't fix it.  If you want SONAR to not crash you'll have to stop using it.



    And stop using 32bit plugins.
     
    Dan

    Mixing is all about control.
     
    My music:
    http://dancumpian.bandcamp.com/ or https://soundcloud.com/dcumpian Studiocat Advanced Studio DAW (Intel i5 3550 @ 3.7GHz, Z77 motherboard, 16GB Ram, lots of HDDs), Sonar Plat, Mackie 1604, PreSonus Audiobox 44VSL, ESI 4x4 Midi Interface, Ibanez Bass, Custom Fender Mexi-Strat, NI S88, Roland JV-2080 & MDB-1, Komplete, Omnisphere, Lots o' plugins.    
    #8
    scook
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    Re: General Instability 2017/04/06 18:22:40 (permalink)
    +1 (1)
    R-Mix is not a Cakewalk plug-in. It is a Roland plug-in with a Cakewalk badge. Some have had issues with the plug-in and it is unlikely those issues will get better over time. I have yet to experience a problem with it but my projects are not as plug-in rich as the ones described here. As a rule it is best to avoid 32bit plug-ins in 64bit DAWs. The only reason a plug-in is 32bit only today is the plug-in has not been updated in some time or relies on a 32bit engine, for example synthedit/flowstone.
    #9
    soens
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    Re: General Instability 2017/04/10 07:22:06 (permalink)
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    dcumpian
    And stop using 32bit plugins.
     
    Dan



    Problem is, all your Sonitus FXs are 32 bit AND DirectX. I suspect that's causing most of my crashes of late. I'm still on 2016.12 so maybe an update will cure some of it ---- but I've never had as many Crash Dumps as I had lately with SPLAT.
     
    My latest one is very strange.
    #10
    msorrels
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    Re: General Instability 2017/04/10 10:19:02 (permalink)
    +1 (1)
    SONAR Platinum has 64-bit Sonitus plugins (and has for some time).  This is because it doesn't support 32-bit DirectX plugins at all.

    -Matt
     
    #11
    soens
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    Re: General Instability 2017/04/13 08:54:59 (permalink)
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    Right you are. Not sure where I came up with that but it was totally incorrect.
     
    So since that cause for crashing is ruled out I'm blaming them all on Dimension now, which has to be the buggiest plugin of all.
    #12
    Tim Reese
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    Re: General Instability 2017/04/23 19:25:02 (permalink)
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    I am running Platinum 64 bit, but how can I determine which of my plug-ins are 32 bit versions?
    #13
    scook
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    Re: General Instability 2017/04/23 20:17:20 (permalink)
    +1 (1)
    In 64bit SONAR, 32bit plug-ins have (32-bit) after their names in plug-in lists and the browser. The plug-ins UI open without the standard header. Depending on the theme they could be shown in a different color in the browser. Platinum does not include any 32bit FX plug-ins. If an older version of SONAR is still installed, Perfect Space and VC-64 are a couple of 32bit plug-ins that might show in the FX plug-in lists. Cakewalk Sound Center is a 32bit synth plug-in still bundled with Platinum.
    #14
    Tim Reese
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    Re: General Instability 2017/04/23 21:07:53 (permalink)
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    Thanks Scook,
    I am playing project files created in studio 8.5.3.282, but was running windows 7, 64 bit then too.  Since then I have purchased a faster computer running win 10 64 bit. I'm looking at my plug ins manager and none of them show (32-bit) after their names, but I'm still experiencing crashes similar to those mentioned above.  Any suggestions? 
    #15
    bitman
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    Re: General Instability 2017/04/23 21:26:05 (permalink)
    +1 (1)
    I've had Sonar crashing once or twice a day now (Not Responding) on my latest project. Today I turned on autosave every minute so I wouldn't loose as much work the next time it crashed.
     
    Do you think it crashed today? No.
    So turn autosave on I guess.
    #16
    Tim Reese
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    Re: General Instability 2017/04/23 22:23:58 (permalink)
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    Thanks Bitmam,
     
    Good idea, I just turned on autosave.  I apply a considerable amount of volume and effect mix automations to my live audio performances, is that the same as what was mentioned above as "R-mix"?  Could this be contributing to my crashes?
    #17
    davisb24
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    Re: General Instability 2017/06/22 05:02:03 (permalink)
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    Thanks for the input everyone.  It is greatly appreciated.
     
    I've been systematically going through plugins for a while and have yet to find the cause.  I can still replicate the problems consistently. I've removed R-Mix, Sonitus plugins, Dimension, and  SHEPPi spacial enhancer.  The FF plugins have been updated to the latest version.  I no longer have bitbridge processes running and I believe I have removed all 32 bit plugins.
     
    It doesn't surprise me that removing these didn't fix the issue. I was using all of these plugins for a long time on platinum before the problems started around November. I now record in GoldWave and import into sonar because the problems are so regular and disruptive. 
     
    The dump stack traces no longer reference plugins (that I can tell) so I believe I have exhausted the suggestions above.
     
    Here is a dump from today: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B0zTyRVNNqqZSGhOb3R2aFIwc0k
     
    Thanks in advance for any additional suggestions.
     
    Speaking of buggy plugins, Melodyne 4 beats out Dimension any day.
     

    SONAR Platinum x64; Win7; i7 4790; 24GB RAM; 1TB SSD; Focusrite Scarlett 18i20
    #18
    msorrels
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    Re: General Instability 2017/06/22 12:38:03 (permalink)
    +1 (1)
    This last crash is deep in SONAR, there doesn't appear to be any plugins in the call stack.  Without symbols to SONAR (only SONAR devs have access to that debugging information) I can't really tell what it was trying to do.  The MFC framework received a command (or a button click/menu item) and then SONAR tried to perform the operation and crashed.  Do you remember what you did just before it crashed?
     
    The only odd thing about the crash I could see is you are loading a few plugins from c:\program files\Cakewalk\vstpluginsx2 which from the path name might not be what you were expecting.  Z3ta+.dll, Addictive Drums X64.dll, TruePianos_x64.dll, TS64_TransientShaper_64.dll, TH2 Producer-64.dll, BT ValveDriver ADR2S-3.dll, VX64_VocalStrip_64.DLL, TL64_TubeLeveler_64.DLL, BREVERB 2 Cakewalk-64.dll, PX64_PercussionStrip_64.DLL, LP64_EQ_64.dll all are coming from there.  But you are also loading some things from c:\program files\Cakewalk\vstplugins (Rapture and Dimension Pro). 
     
    The version of Dimension Pro your running is actually newer than mine (yours is 1.5.0.11 where mine is 1.5.0.5), which seems odd since I thought I was on the most recent version.  The version of Rapture has a strange path:
     
    c:\program files\Cakewalk\vstplugins\previous\Rapture\Rapture x64.dll
     
    But it looks to have the same version number as mine.  And the version numbers on all your plugins and system runtime DLLs match mine.  So I don't think that is the problem even if it's kind of odd (x2 dir and Rapture in a directory called previous).
     
    I do see two ASIO drivers loaded into memory, which is kind of odd since I've been told recently that you can't use two ASIO drivers at the same time.  You have c:\program files (x86)\VB\voicemeeter\vbvm_asiodriver64.dll in the dump as well as c:\program files\focusrite\Scarlett\usb 2.0 audio driver\scarlett_uac2asio_x64.dll
     
    Not really sure what Voicemeeter is but you might want to try uninstalling it?  Other than that unless you can easily reproduce the crash on demand I'd think only Cakewalk themselves can help you.
     

    -Matt
     
    #19
    davisb24
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    Re: General Instability 2017/06/27 04:09:31 (permalink)
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    It looks like you solved the mystery!  After uninstalling voicemeeter, rebooting, and opening/closing sonar a few times, the crashes have stopped.  No crashes in 3 sessions.  There are a few remaining issues that I was hoping were all related, but apparently not. Guess I'm good at causing problems.  I'll put something together and post them in a separate thread since the original issue is resolved.
     
    BTW that tool was a failed attempt at bridging software for a karaoke jam session where we didn't have a mixer.  I didn't even realize it was still running.
     
    Thanks for all the help! I would have never figured it out myself.  I owe you a beer Matt next time I'm in Pittsburgh!

    SONAR Platinum x64; Win7; i7 4790; 24GB RAM; 1TB SSD; Focusrite Scarlett 18i20
    #20
    interpolated
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    Re: General Instability 2017/07/24 11:22:50 (permalink)
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    I was having crash issues last night. So I pressed E to bypass all plugins. Turned off the all the FX bins. Then pressed E again. Then track by track I re-enabled each FX bin until I found the source of my problem.
     
    It seems some 32-bit plug-ins when using the Teleport Server can crash Sonar in my case. Also Plug-In Load Balancing was causing issues. Then the two Quantum Leap Spaces I was using on the two FX busses was causing massive latency problems.
     
    How I'm getting around this is by updating and upgrading my mostly used plug-ins a bit at a time. Since I mostly use 64-bit I tend to only use them when I can. This removes the memory buffer barrier and VST3 allows a better performance over VST2 in some cases.
     
    Eventually this old system will need revamped however until the point I will just keep plugging away until I do.
     
    Also if you use external DSP effects, it might be an idea to check their software settings.
     
     
     

    I have computer stuff.
     
    https://soundcloud.com/sigmadelta
    #21
    igiwigi
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    Re: General Instability 2018/02/21 17:45:11 (permalink)
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    It's Finished. Do not bother and go Cubase or something , you will not look back
     
    We have lost our money and we have to move on
     
    Sonar cannot keep up with Windows updates.
    Gibson will not lose !!
    #22
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