jimlau
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Getting Melody From My Head to MIDI
I'm unable to play an instrument or use a MIDI device, so in order to get a melody into Sonar I have to either use my mouse and click each note in (a pain), or find a good audio to MIDI program. Melodyne is not doing a great job, whether i hum as clearly as I can, or whistle. Just the melody.
Is there any other audio to MIDI software that do a good job?
Thanks.
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karhide
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Re: Getting Melody From My Head to MIDI
2016/12/11 02:26:56
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Before you give up on Melodyne you should look at the quality of the audio you are trying to extract the midi from.
How are you recording the audio you are trying to convert?
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dhodgson
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Re: Getting Melody From My Head to MIDI
2016/12/11 02:45:07
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☄ Helpfulby abacab 2016/12/11 17:43:01
It's not as big a pain as you might think. There's more than one way to skin this cat, but a very simple pro tip is to use your keyboard solely for entering the -rhythms- of notes, without worrying about the pitch (which you fix later.)
For example:
While recording to a click, pick a few adjacent white keys - any will do - and tap out the notes' rhythm.
Then, go back in Piano Roll View and shift-drag the individual notes to their proper pitches (by ear) while retaining their placement in time.
You can get very fancy with this, and nobody will know - using three fingers you can pound in triplets, with four you can hammer in sixteenths, etc. As long as you are tapping along to the melody in your head, the note rhythms are taken care of for you and no real piano dexterity is required.
-djh
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slartabartfast
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Re: Getting Melody From My Head to MIDI
2016/12/11 03:06:04
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I assume that you do not have a keyboard. If you do then step recording offers one option to speed up accurate note entry.
Not surprisingly a complex tone, and especially one not working from a fixed scale, like the voice is harder for a computer to discriminate, both pitch and attack (note beginning). Humming is probably the best way to mask the attack and confuse the computer. If you are going to use your voice, and I am not sure that is what I would advise, then using a voiced plosive like da or de or voiceless like ta or te nonsense syllable will give you a better chance.
In any event, you will probably need to spend significant time cleaning up a conversion. Do not underestimate the value of entering notes by drawing them in. Writing little blobs of ink on staves has been the standard method of doing this for a couple of centuries. Compared to that, manual entry in SONAR is not so tedious.
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Kalle Rantaaho
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Re: Getting Melody From My Head to MIDI
2016/12/11 05:25:52
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☄ Helpfulby Zargg 2016/12/11 06:09:53
You do have Melodyne set to "Melodic", not "Percussive", right?
I've read so many positive comments on Melodynes audio-to-MIDI, that I tend to believe there's something more you could do to get acceptable results.
Have you tried "paa-paa-papaa" :o) instead of humming or whistling. That gives strong transients.
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mettelus
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Re: Getting Melody From My Head to MIDI
2016/12/11 06:21:23
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Another quick point is that certain versions of Melodyne cannot interpret pitch bend information. In addition to the plosive method mentioned above, you may also want to "snap to scale" in Melodyne first. A hum through the scale will insert sudden steps and separate MIDI notes where they cross the +/- 50 cent mark.
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chuckebaby
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Re: Getting Melody From My Head to MIDI
2016/12/11 06:33:04
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Build a chord library out of midi, with different progressions. Use the Browser to drag in these chords to build songs. I've been doing midi/audio for years and I still use this method now. I have midi Chord library's, midi Drum library's, even audio chord library's like Mr. Anderton shared with us. With all these ideas given, one thing should be said: Your ultimate goal should be to learn at minimum 1 instrument and some music theory. If you invest in Sonar it would be a waster to use it simply for humming and whistling your whole life. Progression is key and im not talking about progressive music  . Use the Library's as a crutch, as use Melodyne the same way, but as you evolve you should be learning even a basic understanding of theory. Because if you ever want to get these "Ideas" from your head in to your music/computer having an instrument at your fingertips is like the Pencil to the paper.
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Gregh1957
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Re: Getting Melody From My Head to MIDI
2016/12/11 06:49:00
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☄ Helpfulby jpetersen 2016/12/11 15:27:59
dhodgson
It's not as big a pain as you might think. There's more than one way to skin this cat, but a very simple pro tip is to use your keyboard solely for entering the -rhythms- of notes, without worrying about the pitch (which you fix later.)
For example:
While recording to a click, pick a few adjacent white keys - any will do - and tap out the notes' rhythm.
Then, go back in Piano Roll View and shift-drag the individual notes to their proper pitches (by ear) while retaining their placement in time.
You can get very fancy with this, and nobody will know - using three fingers you can pound in triplets, with four you can hammer in sixteenths, etc. As long as you are tapping along to the melody in your head, the note rhythms are taken care of for you and no real piano dexterity is required.
-djh
I agree - this is a great technique. Also if you sing or whistle/hum along to the tapping you have a guide track so you don't forget the melody
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jimlau
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Re: Getting Melody From My Head to MIDI
2016/12/11 10:42:51
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Thanks.
I am physically unable to play an instrument or MIDI keyboard and capture the pitches. I'm just looking for a way to get the monophonic melody into my DAW. I tried forceful, punchy syllables. The timing aspect is pretty good, but the pitches can be way off, sometimes by octaves.
Some songs have repeated phrases that can be in different pitches, so I copy the phrases, paste them, then adjust pitches. But I was hoping to find a way to get the pitches right so I can simply get the lead melody close to right and add chords (pre-recorded) as well.
I guess there is nothing better out there than Melodyne? If so, will keep trying.
Thanks again.
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Anderton
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Re: Getting Melody From My Head to MIDI
2016/12/11 12:54:01
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slartabartfast
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Re: Getting Melody From My Head to MIDI
2016/12/11 14:45:06
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jpetersen
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Re: Getting Melody From My Head to MIDI
2016/12/11 15:29:04
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Anderton
Try using a kazoo.
People say this to me after they hear me playing guitar.
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tlw
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Re: Getting Melody From My Head to MIDI
2016/12/11 16:04:23
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jimlauI am physically unable to play an instrument or MIDI keyboard and capture the pitches. I'm just looking for a way to get the monophonic melody into my DAW. I tried forceful, punchy syllables. The timing aspect is pretty good, but the pitches can be way off, sometimes by octaves.
Even the best trained singer's can't reach notes outside their range, sopranos can't sing bass and that's an end to it. So being off by octaves isn't surprising. And the human voice actually isn't that good at sustaining a consistent pitch or producing perfect and consistently clear transients, which can throw audio to MIDI software. You might find Jam Origin's guitar to MIDI software worth trying. It's intended for guitar (obviously) but can handle any audio source and can cope better than most with things like pitch bends and vibrato. Though shifting pitches around octaves is still likely to be needed. Or switching a synth's oscillators from e.g. 8 foot to 16 or 32 foot which will drop the pitch by one or two octaves. You might find Sonar's step sequencer or a more advanced MIDI-capable hardware step sequencer useful as a creative tool. They have limitations, but can be a good way to create patterns and lines relatively easily and quickly without requiring the dexterity of a skilled keyboard player. If you don't mind me asking, is your inability to play an instrument related to disability in any way? If so, it might help the collective mind to come up with useful ideas if we knew in what way.
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chuckebaby
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Re: Getting Melody From My Head to MIDI
2016/12/11 16:57:32
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jimlau
Thanks.
I am physically unable to play an instrument or MIDI keyboard and capture the pitches.
I know you say you are physically unable to use a midi keyboard. What kind of controller are using for your keyboard for your computer ? Your Controller that you use for your computer that is set up for you can access the onboard keyboard Sonar supply's. If you need help setting it up / going through the steps let me know.
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jimlau
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Re: Getting Melody From My Head to MIDI
2016/12/11 18:42:40
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chuckebaby
jimlau
Thanks.
I am physically unable to play an instrument or MIDI keyboard and capture the pitches.
I know you say you are physically unable to use a midi keyboard.
What kind of controller are using for your keyboard for your computer ?
Your Controller that you use for your computer that is set up for you can access the onboard keyboard Sonar supply's.
If you need help setting it up / going through the steps let me know.
Not sure what you mean by what kind of controller I use. I only use a typical wireless keyboard, but I use the mouse to input notes on the piano roll. I also cut and paste similar sets of notes and chords. I don't have the dexterity and strength to use an instrument or MIDI keyboard to input the notes. So the process is rather tedious and time-consuming. The creative ideas come quickly, but the bulk of the time is clicking in each note. So, I was hoping to try vocal audio. I can play more with Melodyne and see if I can get a bit more accurate. Thanks.
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dhodgson
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Re: Getting Melody From My Head to MIDI
2016/12/12 01:32:13
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The method I described requires neither dexterity or strength, Jimlau. I know you're looking for a magic bullet, but if you can click a mouse you can use a MIDI keyboard even if you don't have one: "Cakewalk Documentation: Virtual Controller Keyboard" http://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=SONAR&language=3&help=Views.51.html Sooner or later you're going to have to come to terms with MIDI, now's as good a time as any.
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Kalle Rantaaho
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Re: Getting Melody From My Head to MIDI
2016/12/12 02:50:29
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Not knowing exactly what kind of difficulties you have using a MIDI-keyboard, but if you have one functioning finger
to tap on a key with required speed/rhythm, I think you should test dhodgsons method. Get a MIDI keyboard of any kind, just a one octave mini-size will do. They're not expensive. And as mentioned above, there are virtual keyboards.
Also, with a MIDI-keyboard you could use step-record, which gives you all the time in the world to find the next key to press.
After you have tapped the "daa-da-daa-da-da" with one single key, it's a breeze to drag those notes to the right pitch with the mouse (compared to inserting notes one by one with mouse). They are already of the
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chuckebaby
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Re: Getting Melody From My Head to MIDI
2016/12/12 06:08:26
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I must have missed dhodgsons previous post because that's exactly what I was referring to.
(The on screen keyboard) If you are using your fingers to type, you can use your fingers to enter the bulk of notes using the on screen keyboard.
I have found Melodyne to a lot of things well. Detecting whistles and hums however is not one of its strong points.
It does okay per say. and with the editor version it would probably be even better.
I guess what im saying is don't expect miracles. you would fair much better by learning to tap out some of your ideas as well.
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jimlau
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Re: Getting Melody From My Head to MIDI
2016/12/12 10:24:24
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Thanks for the suggestions. Helpful. Still, looks like I will likely need help converting at least some of the audio to MIDI. What would take someone 15 minutes could take me a week or 2, as my computer time each day is limited and there are other tasks to projects I also need to work on. Getting at least the basic lead melody in would be a big help. Any suggestions on where to post a request to hire someone to help with this?
Thanks.
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listen
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Re: Getting Melody From My Head to MIDI
2016/12/12 10:28:38
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dhodgson
It's not as big a pain as you might think. There's more than one way to skin this cat, but a very simple pro tip is to use your keyboard solely for entering the -rhythms- of notes, without worrying about the pitch (which you fix later.)
For example:
While recording to a click, pick a few adjacent white keys - any will do - and tap out the notes' rhythm.
Then, go back in Piano Roll View and shift-drag the individual notes to their proper pitches (by ear) while retaining their placement in time.
You can get very fancy with this, and nobody will know - using three fingers you can pound in triplets, with four you can hammer in sixteenths, etc. As long as you are tapping along to the melody in your head, the note rhythms are taken care of for you and no real piano dexterity is required.
-djh
Nice
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Anderton
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Re: Getting Melody From My Head to MIDI
2016/12/12 11:34:04
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I was serious about the kazoo comment. It's a strong, consistent signal...admittedly not very expressive, but you can tweak that with editing and automation. Probably your best bet would be an electric one, like this model. If you have mobility with your feet and legs, another option is using a set of organ bass pedals, like the StudioLogic MP-113. There are quite a few inexpensive DIY MIDI bass pedal projects as well if you or a friend could put one together.
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jimlau
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Re: Getting Melody From My Head to MIDI
2016/12/12 12:33:26
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Anderton
I was serious about the kazoo comment. It's a strong, consistent signal...admittedly not very expressive, but you can tweak that with editing and automation. Probably your best bet would be an electric one, like this model.
If you have mobility with your feet and legs, another option is using a set of organ bass pedals, like the StudioLogic MP-113. There are quite a few inexpensive DIY MIDI bass pedal projects as well if you or a friend could put one together.
So I would need a 1/4" to 3.5mm adapter to plug it into my computer? Is a wired kazoo better than a simple (no wire) 1 that would be picked up by my microphone?
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dwardzala
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Re: Getting Melody From My Head to MIDI
2016/12/12 13:45:12
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What type of mic are you using, the onbard one, a USB one or one through an interface?
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mettelus
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Re: Getting Melody From My Head to MIDI
2016/12/12 13:52:41
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Would you be willing to post an audio sample of what you are trying to convert? A simple upload to SoundCloud would suffice if you wouldn't mind sharing it.
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jimlau
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Re: Getting Melody From My Head to MIDI
2016/12/12 13:55:18
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I use a Samson USB mic. I'm not sure I could play a kazoo, breath- and effort-wise. I could try tho.
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AdamGrossmanLG
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Re: Getting Melody From My Head to MIDI
2016/12/12 15:07:39
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honestly, get a MIDI keyboard. I couldn't play 5 years ago. Today I can bang out simple 1 line melodies pretty much in time. I didn't take any lessons. I just got better from recording music over the years. Also there is a program called "Cales" and "Chordz" which you can use just the white keys. It allows you to snap the white keys to the scale you are in: www.codefn42.com
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abacab
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Re: Getting Melody From My Head to MIDI
2016/12/12 15:20:25
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Just drag an audio clip onto an empty MIDI track and it converts audio to MIDI. http://blog.cakewalk.com/...dy-convert-it-to-midi/ This method seems to work with a mono source OK. I tried it with a bassline, and got a very close match. Not much luck with a guitar part, too much going on with chords in the signal. It did seem to capture the rhythm, but it recorded all notes at the same pitch. Even so, it could compare with the tapping out a rhythm method, then editing the piano roll or staff view for the pitch. So I would think that a clear voice recording would be a reliable mono audio source for this task.
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jimlau
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Re: Getting Melody From My Head to MIDI
2016/12/12 17:55:06
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mettelus
Would you be willing to post an audio sample of what you are trying to convert? A simple upload to SoundCloud would suffice if you wouldn't mind sharing it.
Here are a few phrases from my project. The tempo is supposed to be 105. Did both hum and whistle. Also the last 1 I did legatto and staccato. Not sure how hard legatto/bending is to do with a mod wheel. If anyone tries to convert to MIDI, let me know how long it takes? Thanks. https://soundcloud.com/hatflyer/phrases
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abacab
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Re: Getting Melody From My Head to MIDI
2016/12/12 21:25:00
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jimlau
mettelus
Would you be willing to post an audio sample of what you are trying to convert? A simple upload to SoundCloud would suffice if you wouldn't mind sharing it.
Here are a few phrases from my project. The tempo is supposed to be 105. Did both hum and whistle. Also the last 1 I did legatto and staccato. Not sure how hard legatto/bending is to do with a mod wheel. If anyone tries to convert to MIDI, let me know how long it takes? Thanks.
https://soundcloud.com/hatflyer/phrases
I took a listen to the phrases, but could not find a download button to access the file. No account required here to post and share a link: https://clyp.it/
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jimlau
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Re: Getting Melody From My Head to MIDI
2016/12/12 21:52:20
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sorry..should be downloadable, perhaps under the "more" button. looks like you need an account for the link you gave?
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