Getting a realistic performance from MIDI instruments

My wish has been to have a gadget (possibly wrist strap) that could interpret the wrist movements while playing keyboard, and translate that into precise vibrato (in the same way a wind or string player can have absolute control over vibrato), and for keyboard to have polyphonic aftertouch (not channel aftertouch, I mean polyphonic aftertouch) to translate to volume.  I know there are possibly some older keyboards with polyphonic AT but these were quite rare.  [Alternative is to use keyboard with channel aftertouch, and record one part at a time]
 
Until then... I use some of the techniques discussed in that article. 
 
I've never used a breath controller - do you think it can provide a reasonably good simulation of vibrato and volume control?

Maybe the Continuum is the way to go. Plenty of expression to be had here:
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vb0SpeikUs
 
Here is the website:
 
http://www.hakenaudio.com/Continuum/hakenaudioovervg.html
 
Midi can be very expressive indeed. It just depends on the controller being used and the quaility of the player too.
 
I have recently added a ribbon controller to my Kurzweil PC3K and it is quite amazing. It is very long (over two feet) and is a joy to play. It is capable of very expressive playing on all fronts. It can be configured as one very long ribbon or three separate smaller ribbons. It can be used to send its data to your DAW too. It is programmed on every patch once you plug it in and can be very interesting to play.
 
People with later Roland devices should really get into that D beam controller as well. It is pretty powerful and versatile.
 
 
 

b rock
 
I'm not sure that the fine level of sensitivity would be there, but there's Hot Hand 3.  Personally, I've always wanted a side-to-side key sensor similar to in-fret vibrato.  I've since seen it available on some really high-end boutique controller (and the model & designer escapes me).

I know what you're talking about.  I recall seeing a keyboard like that available at one point that claimed to have that capability.  It certainly seems like a desirable feature, unlike aftertouch which conflicts too much with velocity IMO (plus AT is implemented really badly on the three controllers I've had personal experience with).  Imagine, getting vibrato by moving your hand laterally with the keyboard, just like a violinist can do on their instrument.  Way cool!

A keyboard that does vibrato. Maybe a sensor that detects side to side motion on the keys? Has this been done?

It is true my most realistic arrangements have been with those considerations. Ie I am arranging a part for midi "patch 52 cello" not trying to do what Yo Yo Ma can do with real cello.

But I do wish I could play cello like him, as well as lots of other instruments but in reality I am only good at the piano and I shall keep on wishing/hoping for an easy way to play french horn without having to learn for 20 years.

rebel007
A keyboard that does vibrato. Maybe a sensor that detects side to side motion on the keys? Has this been done?

Yeah, that's what b rock and I were talking about earlier in this thread.  I distinctly remember a KB with such a feature being announced at one point, but I've no details on what manufacturer or if the model ever gained any momentum.  Could well be there was insufficient interest and the product was discontinued.  I'm not aware of any KB that is currently available that does this ... but there should be!

I definitely am a much more MIDI oriented producer. In fact, I'm not quite so geared toward live performance on anythin but trombone... I'm no good at guitar, OK at bass, and my keys could use some work. I've also found that the endless wealth of synth sounds that are out there is a HUGE advantage, esp for more modern styles.

I distinctly remember a KB with such a feature being announced at one point, but I've no details on what manufacturer or if the model ever gained any momentum.

I believe that the one I had in mind was the Continuum; mentioned & linked by Jeff in Post #4.  Relatively expensive, but considering the feature set, it's not much more than a high-end hardware synth.

... unlike aftertouch which conflicts too much with velocity IMO (plus AT is implemented really badly on the three controllers I've had personal experience with).

The best I've ever used was in the (original) Novation ReMote controllers.  Very expressive. But I've run the gamut.  Perhaps the worst implementation is in my AKAI Max49.  Down pressure is passable; release snaps between 4-5 values of 128.

I have recently added a ribbon controller to my Kurzweil PC3K and it is quite amazing.

What's the manufacturer/model, Jeff?  I consider the Doepfer R2M every time I look to order another Wheel Electronic kit.

I've never used an expression pedal/controller and don't really know what it does. I imagine it's similar to volume automation?

I consider it essential; along with a sustain pedal.  While it's intended to vary expression in overall volume, it doesn't have to be used that way.  In most controllers and synths, it can used to point at many different parameters.  I'll use it for filter cutoff, unidirectional pitch bend, sequencer depth, ... most anything that I don't have a free hand for.
 
 
Not to detract from Mike's tutorial here.  I found it to be an excellent primer, and I look forward to Part II.  The subject did open up an interesting discussion.  I don't think that many of us - end users or manufacturers - ever fully utilize the expressive capabilities built into MIDI over 30 years ago.

Hi Tom.  I had to use the actual Kurzweil ribbon controller itself as it has a special connector and is designed especially for the Kurzweil.
 
http://kurzweil.com/produ...per_ribbon_controller/
 
Foot control does not just control volume but anything you want to assign to it.
 
Midi offers way more expressive control than what most people use.  One important thing is just even velocity control over a sound.  Simple I know but often you have to go in and tell the patch to respond to it. In many cases it won't and it requires you to get in there and make it happen.   (or even if it has some velocty response it may need to be adjusted to suit your playing style and the music a bit more)
 
Also at the same time you can do things like route velocty to filter cuttoff, resonance and even slight pitch movements as well.  Thing is you have to get in there and do all that first.
 
I agree with what Hans Zimmer is saying too and work very much in that mode.  It is the actual sounds and samples that you have that often dictate how they are played.  A sample may sound very realistic when played a certain way but also very unrealistic when played in a different manner.  I tend to lean towards playing any samples or sounds in such as way as to show them off in their best light.
 
I also have a Yamaha breath controller and it is quite amazing also.  Kurzweil even has a breath controller input and it is fully compatible with it.  That can be routed to many things such as vibrato, volume, filter etc..  You can also get a little breath control box that will accept it also and send out the midi data. (if you don't have any Yamaha synths that is)
 
http://www.midisolutions.com/prodbth.htm

What? Nobody has seen this?...
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAAVs8wqVUA

sharke
I have this fantasy about a motion sensor conductor's baton which would allow you to "conduct" a MIDI performance.

You're going to need to let your hair grow out if you want to pull that one off with panache. 

This forum works about as well as midi does.
 
Sensors are already hooked up with outer orbit girl.
Gloves probably in 2015. Me make Music with Gloves. No that is her, not me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0lCL2hpRPM
 
No, actually.
And probably not all of it though.
 

The latest issue of Sound on Sound has an article about a new system developed by a PhD from the US who teaches in London at the moment.  It has sensors on key strips that you affix to the actual keys of any device you might have handy.  It cannot detect pressure or velocity, but reportedly excels at detecting movement of fingers on the keys (side to side is perfectly translated into vibrato) and front to back can be used for anything you want to control.
 
Apart from the key overlays needing to be attached, the main downside is the cost: 1200 pounds for an 88-key version.  But maybe it's the shape of things to come.  If some KB manufacturer integrates the technology into a mass produced KB that has a large economy of scale, this thing could really be a whole new ballgame performance-wise.

There are also non-music applications. :-)

I am now reading up more on the breath controllers. Tempted to try www.tecontrol.se

I've had the TEControl UNI MIDI breath controller for several days now and am loving it.
I was unable to get it to work  USB only so plugged the MIDI cable into the MIDI Thru on my Kurzweil K2600.
 
I also bought the TEControl headset, which I wear like a harmonica holder.
There are learning curves both as to "pneumatic"set-up  with controllable, and to me, necessary, leakage, technique, and embrochure, and instrument set up. (No, I haven't got a good duduk,yet). I am starting to learn passable vibrato with it...think swishing mouthwash thru your teeth.
Total cost ~ 180 Euros, and I received the unit in about a week.
Total game changer, musically, and highly recommended..
 
Works fine with Omnisphere, Trilian and Kurzweil.
 
Will be setting up Alchemy and Kontakt soon.
Jeff: I love the ribbons on the Kurzweil as well.
(AND the delightful Imogen Heap).
 
Great thread.