deepsessions
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Getting back into recording and need to get caught up on the times..
Been out of the loop for the last 7 or 8 years and want to get back to recording for fun. I used to run a PC with Sonar 5, FX Pansion Guru, a Delta 8 bus 24/96 and a few outboard rack effects. I lost some steam after the motherboard went on my DAW and more importantly had my daughter.
Few questions..
What kind of computer specs are needed these days to keep up with say a dozen each of vsti's/vst's? I've got a 2 Ghz Mac Air with 8gb of 1600 mhz ddr3 ram. I'd rather not use this small laptop though and would like to keep my DAW dedicated and offline as much as possible. I'd like to build a PC with a budget of around $300-$500. I do not want to deal with latency issues so please tell me if I need to increase my budget or go MAC.
How is the new Sonar X3? Is producer necessary? How buggy is this platform as a whole and does it favor working with certain plugins over others? Does it work with Reason's rewire?
What's a good affordable soundcard that will give me low latency working with Sonar 3x, running Native Instruments vsti's (Absynth, Electric Piano, and probably a few others), as well as effect plug ins like Waves, Izotope,etc.. ?
Who has a good standard 2 input usb mic pre for guitar/mics?
Most the music I make is in the box with some guitar, bass, and occasional vocal. Maybe around 30-40 tracks with a 8-12 vsti's and 20-30 effect plug ins.
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AT
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Re: Getting back into recording and need to get caught up on the times..
2014/12/12 23:37:50
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I'll let others cover the computers in depth. I use an off the shelf HP which is more than fast enough - i7 and 8 gigs. Just make sure you have plenty of memory and a 2nd internal hard drive for audio streaming. X3 and Win8 are touchable and it works pretty well. So include a touchscreen monitor in your price, preferably w/ an adjustable slant so you can put your screen right where a console would be. Last year I got a 21 inch del touchscreen w/ the adjustable base so it goes from almost flat to straight up for less than $300. They should be a little cheaper this year. Just be sure you can swing it around - that makes all the difference but seems to add a $100 or so to the price.
X3 producer has just about all you will need except for some extra synths. The ProChannel (a channel strip on every track in X3) is about the only audio VSTs you'll need. an 1176 comp, an ssl buss comp and excellent EQ come standard, along w/ Breeverb reverb (Perfect Space convolution still comes w/ X3, as well as many of the old effects, Nomad Audio's blue tubes and a useful suite of mastering tools). Like I said, you may want to pick a few more, but you don't really need them.
Tascam has some new interfaces out - Cakewalk is part of Gibson and Tascam is the hardware partner. Or many use Focusrite, who have a ton of choices. And lots of us used Roland interfaces back when Cake was owned by them. It doesn't really matter, most of the similarly priced units are similar on the inside - converter chips, electronics and preamps. They do the job and quite well.
Welcome back and have fun.
@
https://soundcloud.com/a-pleasure-dome
http://www.bnoir-film.com/ there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. 24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
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deepsessions
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Re: Getting back into recording and need to get caught up on the times..
2014/12/13 00:21:30
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Touchscreens haha so cool... ya I've been out of the loop! So are most still loading everything from within the box and not using external HD's? How are you backing up things if not? How is the standard Sonar X3? I have most of the Waves plug ins still I've become familiar with. Has Sonar X3 been out long enough to work the bugs out? Does it crash often? AT
I'll let others cover the computers in depth. I use an off the shelf HP which is more than fast enough - i7 and 8 gigs. Just make sure you have plenty of memory and a 2nd internal hard drive for audio streaming. X3 and Win8 are touchable and it works pretty well. So include a touchscreen monitor in your price, preferably w/ an adjustable slant so you can put your screen right where a console would be. Last year I got a 21 inch del touchscreen w/ the adjustable base so it goes from almost flat to straight up for less than $300. They should be a little cheaper this year. Just be sure you can swing it around - that makes all the difference but seems to add a $100 or so to the price.
X3 producer has just about all you will need except for some extra synths. The ProChannel (a channel strip on every track in X3) is about the only audio VSTs you'll need. an 1176 comp, an ssl buss comp and excellent EQ come standard, along w/ Breeverb reverb (Perfect Space convolution still comes w/ X3, as well as many of the old effects, Nomad Audio's blue tubes and a useful suite of mastering tools). Like I said, you may want to pick a few more, but you don't really need them.
Tascam has some new interfaces out - Cakewalk is part of Gibson and Tascam is the hardware partner. Or many use Focusrite, who have a ton of choices. And lots of us used Roland interfaces back when Cake was owned by them. It doesn't really matter, most of the similarly priced units are similar on the inside - converter chips, electronics and preamps. They do the job and quite well.
Welcome back and have fun.
@
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AT
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Re: Getting back into recording and need to get caught up on the times..
2014/12/13 00:44:49
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Loading? Sonar is pretty small, really and most common HDs are a terabyte. If you are going laptop an external drive helps /w the audio, but a desktop is the most bang for your buck. Most people get a 256 gig solid state drive (tho a bit expensive) for the OS and then a regular 7200 rpm drive to write the audio files to.
All versions of SONAR is the same program, basically (you can find a chart of the differences on the website), without the frills. If you have waves and softsynths you like, you can skip Pro, although Z3TA and DimPro cover a lot of sonic ground and come w/ Pro. The middle version of SONAR comes w/ ProChannel (PC), which is a really nice way to work - all the track effects can be seen and set from an inspector - even common VSTs can be "chained" into the PC. It is convenient, like having a console strip visible for whichever track you are working on.
SONAR is pretty stable. I haven't had any problems to speak of, anyway.
@
https://soundcloud.com/a-pleasure-dome
http://www.bnoir-film.com/ there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. 24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
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deepsessions
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Re: Getting back into recording and need to get caught up on the times..
2014/12/13 01:23:40
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Ah yes SSD drives must be the deal! How are most backing up?
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Getting back into recording and need to get caught up on the times..
2014/12/13 03:16:13
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Your budget seems tight but you don't say what it needs to include. Do you still have a case, monitors, your previous soundcard, etc.?
Also, "going Mac" won't do you any good unless you also "go Logic", because Sonar doesn't run on OSX. Latency issues have a lot more to do with your soundcard anyway, and you already got a few decent budget friendly recommendations there.
Finally if you have a bunch of external plugs you like, I wouldn't spring for Producer. As a package, it's great value, but if you'll be using your Waves and IzoTope anyway it's a little pointless. Addictive Drums is pretty cool though and may be useful for your style.
You will need Waves v9 by the way, so you may need to pay for WUP.
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deepsessions
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Re: Getting back into recording and need to get caught up on the times..
2014/12/13 03:34:47
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I figured I'd just get a used tower on CL. There are quite a few i7's for sale. Is there a preferred chipset?
I have monitors, a big screen, mics etc.. main thing I need is the most bang for the buck soundcard that has the lowest latency. Been looking at the Steinberg UR22 and Akai EIE Pro. I don't so much need more than 1 or 2 inputs but need something that will keep my latency down.
How come I need Wave v9?
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Getting back into recording and need to get caught up on the times..
2014/12/13 04:30:06
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☄ Helpfulby deepsessions 2014/12/13 05:05:44
You need v9 because they fixed some X3 compatibility somewhere during v9, I think r15 or something.
You could try with your older ones, but if you run into issues that's the official story.
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Boydie
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Re: Getting back into recording and need to get caught up on the times..
2014/12/13 06:14:14
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I would recommend the a Focusrite Scarlett as your best "bang for buck" audio interface
There are a few flavours at the "2 input" price point so you can't go wrong
I haven't used one myself but have seen enough good reports to know I wouldn't hesitate if I needed to replace mine
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Scoot
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Re: Getting back into recording and need to get caught up on the times..
2014/12/13 06:20:18
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To build on AT's comments about a second internal hard drive, on a Laptop this typically means going for Laptop with a DVD writer, that you switch out for a SSD. Not all laptops come with DVD writers now, as downloading and storing on much bigger hardrives is leaving them behind.
Like AT I also went for an off the shelf HP. I saw a few posters here running them without real issues, and the cakewalk staff seem to generally run them, and they are usually the machines pictured on their site. I don't think there is an official endorsement though. There is a program called DPC LatencyMon, which is a good indicator of if a machine is suitable for Audio. I haven't had mine long enough to know, but DPC Latency Mon ran for an hour and said it was good.
HP ENVY Notebook - 15t-k100 CTO i7 -4510U CPU @ 2.00 GHZ 8gb RAM. Windows 8.1 64bit Full HD Touchscreen Sonar X3 Producer, AAS Complete set, XLN AD Keys and Drums, TH2 Roland Quad Capture, AudioTeckina 3035 Mic and ATH-M50 Headphones. Korg Nanopad2, WX5 Midi Sax, , Soprano Sax, Alto and Soprano Flute, Acoustic Guitar and Epiphone Dot Scoot not scook
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Scoot
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Re: Getting back into recording and need to get caught up on the times..
2014/12/13 06:24:28
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Boydie
I would recommend the a Focusrite Scarlett as your best "bang for buck" audio interface
There are a few flavours at the "2 input" price point so you can't go wrong
I haven't used one myself but have seen enough good reports to know I wouldn't hesitate if I needed to replace mine
If I was to buy my Audio interface again, I would go for this recommendation. The Roland Quad Capture has the headphones and the Amp on the same volume knob, which is a bit annoying.
HP ENVY Notebook - 15t-k100 CTO i7 -4510U CPU @ 2.00 GHZ 8gb RAM. Windows 8.1 64bit Full HD Touchscreen Sonar X3 Producer, AAS Complete set, XLN AD Keys and Drums, TH2 Roland Quad Capture, AudioTeckina 3035 Mic and ATH-M50 Headphones. Korg Nanopad2, WX5 Midi Sax, , Soprano Sax, Alto and Soprano Flute, Acoustic Guitar and Epiphone Dot Scoot not scook
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lawp
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Re: Getting back into recording and need to get caught up on the times..
2014/12/13 06:24:54
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jta, if the laptop is 17" it will likely accommodate a 2nd HD without swapping out the optical drive, both i've had did
sstteerreeoo ffllllaanngge
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deepsessions
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Re: Getting back into recording and need to get caught up on the times..
2014/12/13 06:25:59
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Thanks I put the Focusrite Scarlett on my list of things to check out.
I'm gonna buy or build a PC tower because I'd like to have a big monitor and faster specs for the money. My MacAir is plenty fast but it's got a tiny screen and just isn't real inspiring...for me. Would like to know if there are preferred chipsets and i7 or Xeons preferences?
Anyone using NI's Maschine within Sonar? Or any other controllers with knobs/sliders etc.. ?
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Getting back into recording and need to get caught up on the times..
2014/12/13 07:16:43
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I'm using Maschine (original) in X3. Works fine. I use an SSD for the library, it helps, although the Maschine samples are generally quite small and fit into RAM easily.
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Paul P
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Re: Getting back into recording and need to get caught up on the times..
2014/12/13 08:18:08
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Scoot
To build on AT's comments about a second internal hard drive, on a Laptop this typically means going for Laptop with a DVD writer, that you switch out for a SSD. Not all laptops come with DVD writers now, as downloading and storing on much bigger hardrives is leaving them behind.
A good idea, but I'd have the SSD with the OS on it as the primary drive and the HDD in the DVD slot. You could then use multiple hard drives if you wanted.
Sonar Platinum [2017.10], Win7U x64 sp1, Xeon E5-1620 3.6 GHz, Asus P9X79WS, 16 GB ECC, 128gb SSD, HD7950, Mackie Blackjack
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bitflipper
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Re: Getting back into recording and need to get caught up on the times..
2014/12/13 09:53:11
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Welcome back, deepsessions. I came back in 2005 after a 10-year hiatus and was delighted to discover how far things had progressed during my absence.
I had to replace my audio interface this year. The old one crapped out at an inopportune time, so I had no money saved up for a replacement. Consequently, I did quite a lot of research before making that purchase, ultimately deciding to take a chance on a Focusrite product based on feature set, price, and others' good experiences.
10 months later, it's proven to have been an excellent choice. Half what I paid for its predecessor and only very minor feature compromises. Great support, too. Not the RME that I would have bought had I been able to afford it, but for 1/4 the price it's a good alternative on a budget.
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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lawajava
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Re: Getting back into recording and need to get caught up on the times..
2014/12/13 11:15:42
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deepsessions - you're marveling at how things have progressed. It truly is amazing.
Two out of the box suggestions for you. Why not open your computer search to a laptop. Even used laptops from CL might be out there with plenty of horsepower for audio engineering. Going mobile is getting with the times. Since I cut the cord from using a desktop PC my productive time on Sonar has greatly increased.
Second thing - seriously investigate using SSD drives. Everything will be spunky if you go that route. They are now quite reasonable in price.
Two internal 2TB SSDs laptop stuffed with Larry's deals and awesome tools. Studio One is the cat's meow as a DAW now that I've migrated off of Sonar. Using BandLab Cakewalk just to grab old files when migrating songs.
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bapu
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Re: Getting back into recording and need to get caught up on the times..
2014/12/13 12:07:12
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deepsessions
Ah yes SSD drives must be the deal! How are most backing up?
I use an external drive for backing up projects. Another external to "image" my OS drive. My purchased samples are either on the orignal CD/DVD. If they were a purchased as a download (more prevalent these days) I have an external RAID-1 NAS. 2TB (actaully 2x2TB for full redundancy) where those downloads are stored. Gobbler did offer a method to backup projects, but they are in a state of flux so it's hard to say if that is viable any longer.
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deepsessions
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Re: Getting back into recording and need to get caught up on the times..
2014/12/13 12:46:21
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Appreciate all the input guys! Things have definitely come a long ways. I used to have a room full of synthesizers right when all the emulator's were coming out. The sounds were just about there but the processing power to run them wasn't unfortunately. That and 3 giant 21" vga monitors haha.. Now I have the option of a big 25,27,30" flat screen haha.. As much as I'd like to get a big screen laptop and be mobile I've got a little one in the picture and need to keep everything away from her. Luckily I have a room I can use as a studio. Still curious as to what i7 chipsets you guys recommend? Sanderxpander
I'm using Maschine (original) in X3. Works fine. I use an SSD for the library, it helps, although the Maschine samples are generally quite small and fit into RAM easily.
Did you have latency issues before using a dedicated SSD? How do you like using Maschine does it speed up your work flow?
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jbow
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Re: Getting back into recording and need to get caught up on the times..
2014/12/13 18:17:53
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Personally I think your expectations exceed your budget, I know... I've been there. Even if you have to do 24 month financing or layaway... go ahead and get what you need and want. Sweetwater has 24 month 0% financing on most things and Jim @ Studiocat will work with you on a layaway, of course you'll have to wait on your computer but in the mean time you can do small projects on your phone or iPAD or use Reaper on the cheap and save to get the machine, interface, monitors, mics, video monitor, phones, and everything else that you're going to want.
I may be off base and I really don't mean to "cross the line" or be offensive but I've been there and have been through the frustration of not having what I needed to do what I wanted to do. That said, it is a LOT cheaper these days to get there than it used to be. If you really have to stay under 500 bucks then be SURE to get a 7200RPM HD even at the expense of some gigs, get at least 4G of RAM if you want to go 64bit (and you do). A SSD will eat up most of your budget so forget that, you don't need it... so you boot a few seconds quicker, so what.
Think about what you want... think about it and then think about it again. Talk to some people like Danny Danzi, Jim Roseberry, and others. Talk to Beagle and Herb... they make good recordings and are level headed folk... and Karyn. They know more than I do. I mostly know that jumping before you are ready can cause you a LOT of frustration and spending money and finding that what you have wont do what you want to do is defeating.
Know, exactly what it is you want to do because there are a LOT of products that looks like they do everything these days. Some of them are geared to EDM and those are useless to me but gold to others.
My advice may be useless to you but there it is anyway... I hope you get what you want and what you need.
Julien
Sonar Platinum Studiocat Pro 16G RAM (some bells and whistles) HP Pavilion dm4 1165-dx (i5)-8G RAM Octa-Capture KRK Rokit-8s MIDI keyboards... Control Pad mics. I HATE THIS CMPUTER KEYBARD!
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deepsessions
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Re: Getting back into recording and need to get caught up on the times..
2014/12/13 18:42:30
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Perhaps but that's why I'm here inquiring.. My main budget for a computer is $500-$700. Based on the computers I've seen on CL I can get an i7, SDD, and 1 or 2tb hdd with 8-16gb of ram for $400-500. I've got a big Apple monitor already and Klipsch 2.1 monitors I've used in a pinch. The soundcard and midi controller are gonna be a separate budget as is software. All in all I'm probably looking at $1500 total to work with but am gonna piece meal it so I can start working sooner than later.
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Kev999
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Re: Getting back into recording and need to get caught up on the times..
2014/12/13 18:50:01
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deepsessions
...a PC with a budget of around $300-$500...
Running Sonar doesn't require cutting-edge technology. It can work well on a PC that is a few years old, provided that it is free of bloatware (and running Windows 7). If you are on a tight budget, then I suggest considering buying a used PC.
SonarPlatinum∞(22.11.0.111)|Mixbus32C(4.3.19)|DigitalPerformer(9.5.1)|Reaper(5.77)FractalDesign:DefineR5|i7-6850k@4.1GHz|16GB@2666MHz-DDR4|MSI:GamingProCarbonX99a|Matrox:M9148(x2)|UAD2solo(6.5.2)|W7Ult-x64-SP1
Audient:iD22+ASP800|KRK:VXT6|+various-outboard-gear|+guitars&basses, etc.
Having fun at work lately
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deepsessions
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Re: Getting back into recording and need to get caught up on the times..
2014/12/13 18:55:32
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Ah I bumped up the budget this morning. Should have said that!
The main thing I want to stress is I want the lowest latency possible. I know it's a combination of DAW and soundcard but I don't have $1k to spend on a soundcard.
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jbow
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Re: Getting back into recording and need to get caught up on the times..
2014/12/13 19:17:11
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I stil wouldn't spend the money on the SSD. You can get good latency with a decent interface and good drivers. If I understand correctly, USB2, if it is configured to do so (I say that because I don't know if it always is) will go straight to the PCie card/slot giving you the same speed as Apple's Thunderbolt. You can get a good 2x4 interface for pretty cheap and have the latency you want but it is the noise level and sound of the interface's mic pres that you want to think about. If I were you I would also research into the preamps (as well as the latency). Latency really does not seem to be the problem that it used to be, especially with direct monitoring.. with DM, it is no concern at all.
Actually, I'd run it all by Jim Roseberry who has been building audio computers for 20 years and does not mind helping you, he is a good guy. He will tell you the truth even though you aren't at present a potential customer.
So, if you are doing mostly audio recording, use direct monitoring and don't sweat latency. If you're planning to record live using realtime effects then latency will be a concern and cost you more.
I think you'll be fine, you can do most anything with 1k if you think it through... Good luck to you!
Julien
Sonar Platinum Studiocat Pro 16G RAM (some bells and whistles) HP Pavilion dm4 1165-dx (i5)-8G RAM Octa-Capture KRK Rokit-8s MIDI keyboards... Control Pad mics. I HATE THIS CMPUTER KEYBARD!
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jbow
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Re: Getting back into recording and need to get caught up on the times..
2014/12/13 19:17:11
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I went back and re-read the OP and the SSD might do you more good than I thought. As prices fall you can always add another but you should be able to add whatever VSTs or samples to the SSD if you're using it for projects and be fine.
Julien
Sonar Platinum Studiocat Pro 16G RAM (some bells and whistles) HP Pavilion dm4 1165-dx (i5)-8G RAM Octa-Capture KRK Rokit-8s MIDI keyboards... Control Pad mics. I HATE THIS CMPUTER KEYBARD!
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Getting back into recording and need to get caught up on the times..
2014/12/13 20:56:48
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There is no extra (midi to audio) latency when using Maschine without an SSD. It just takes slightly longer to browse/load new kits. It has no impact on performance.
Maschine is a bit of a hassle to set up if you're used to linear recording (you can, and it works well, it's just more effort than it's worth for my purposes). I love the sounds, the easy browsing and sound mangling and the loop/beat building is nice too. Generally I will build a beat in there, then drag it as audio into my project and mute the VSTi (so that I can go back and edit if necessary). Usually I solo the instruments (kick, snare, etc) and export them separately.
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deepsessions
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Re: Getting back into recording and need to get caught up on the times..
2014/12/14 00:37:48
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Thanks Jbow I'll reach out and touch a few people that you mentioned. Been browsing some DAW systems and they're out of my price range. Impressive though...
Sander what kind of music do you make? What do you mean linear recording? Would it be easy to build say 10-20 kits/templates and then scroll through them as need be? Any thoughts on Maschine Studio or Mikro and the differences?
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Getting back into recording and need to get caught up on the times..
2014/12/14 04:06:43
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I make varied stuff but I find Maschine mostly useful for its core purpose - electronic or "produced sounding" drums.
It's definitely easy enough to build and save your own kits, that's part of why I like it in fact. You can browse by category (snares) and subcategory (acoustic, electronic, vinyl) directly from the controller and map them to the pads very quickly. It also comes with a ton of pre-built kits.
What I mean by linear recording is if you're planning to record a drumpart from intro all the way to the ending it's not really built for that. You can, but Maschine's built-in functions are aimed at pattern building (so, loops), not recording a song where the drumbeat is (or could be) different every bar. It's possible, just not very convenient. I don't know if you've ever used an MPC but it takes a lot of cues from that. So my personal workflow consists mostly of browsing sounds to compile a kit, hammering out loops or specific breaks, and dragging them from the Maschine sequencer window into Sonar to fit them into my song.
I would say if you do mainly rock or "band" songs, you would be better off with something like Addictive Drums, though I enjoy having both.
I haven't really looked into Maschine Studio much, but I bought the regular one over Mikro mainly for the extra screen - I prefer treating it mostly as a piece of hardware and that really helps.
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bitflipper
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Re: Getting back into recording and need to get caught up on the times..
2014/12/14 14:24:41
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Here's a great resource I bookmarked when I was considering an SSD: http://www.thessdreview.com/featured/ssd-throughput-latency-iopsexplained/Read the whole thing before ordering your SSD; it'll be time well-spent. After researching it, I elected to just add another conventional HDD. My computer's I/O throughput is less than an SSD's theoretical bandwidth, so an SSD wouldn't be performing to advertised specs anyway. And the price difference between SSDs and HDDs, while narrowing, is still significant. I could get 2 conventional hard drives for half the price of one SSD.
All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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spacealf
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- Joined: 2010/11/18 17:44:34
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Re: Getting back into recording and need to get caught up on the times..
2014/12/14 14:49:57
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Do not get a Haswell chip computer. Well, I guess Intel had to do something with it because it has been wrong somehow. The rest is a little strange, perhaps with all -in-one computers which I will not buy. So a computer that is a desktop that works. I bought a demo so it did not cost that much because I wanted Windows 7, not 8 or 8.1 or whatever Microsoft is doing these days. The computer is 64 bit (although there are a lot of 32 bit programs on my computer and it is fast enough I suppose, but then I do more audio then soft synths. And things like second generation while the newer ones are third generation chips in the computer or whatever which does make them different and better (if not faster also and they also cost more). USB 2 - USB 3 audio/interface and if USB 3, it has to work with the port in the computer. I heard there are differences, not sure what they are like brown colored USB port inside or blue color. I don't know much about that, since I have a USB 2 interface (which is also needed on the computer and 2 hubs so other things - mouse - keyboard have power also besides the audio/interface). http://www.sweetwater.com/shop/computer-audio/audio_interfaces/ and there are other on-line stores or your local store to get an audio/interface. Which one, well, I have an RME Babyface, probably spent too much on it, but you will have to compare all the different ones they sell. Do a search on the Internet for audio/interface, to find other places that sell the equipment and all that is sold I guess.
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