Helpful ReplyGetting better converters vs upping sampling rate/bit depth?

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ASG
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2013/05/16 04:23:00 (permalink)

Getting better converters vs upping sampling rate/bit depth?

A while back i remember whining about a "character" that i couldnt seem to get in my projects, describng them as "dull, and recently learned that the detail i was longing for is the brightness found in the upper register when working with an increased sample rate, most prominent for me on acoustic guitar and piano. Ive learned that that brightness is what ive been dying for, BUT ive also learned that my dual core cant accomodate larger rates and depths on my bigger projects. Making the switch to more processing power isnt gonna be in the cards for me for some time. But, i have been budgeting for converters for some time now (which i already needed anyways), and may be able to grab a UA apollo or maybe something from lynx or ssl soon. Ive been told that killer converters at 44.1 will blow the doors off of a minimal setup at larger Khz, as far as getting me the sound i need, and im wondering if anyone can vouch for that?
     Also this would be my first time pursuing converters outside of the stock circuits in my interface, im clueless as far as what part of the signal path i would put it in and im curious would i be able to run soft synth tracks through it like with a channel strip? 
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Chregg
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Re:Getting better converters vs upping sampling rate/bit depth? 2013/05/16 04:27:58 (permalink)
" Ive been told that killer converters at 44.1 will blow the doors off of a minimal setup at larger Khz" yeah its not just the converters, its the anti aliasing filters as well, but you get wat you pay for, pay for sub par, you get sub par
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ASG
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Re:Getting better converters vs upping sampling rate/bit depth? 2013/05/16 04:31:45 (permalink)
thanks for response. not familiar with anti aliasing. school me?
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Chregg
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Re:Getting better converters vs upping sampling rate/bit depth? 2013/05/16 05:14:40 (permalink)
aliasing is a distortion in the signal caused by the highest frequency of the signal being more than half the sample rate i.e if you are recording a signal whos highest frequency component is say 27 khz and you have a sampling rate of 44.1 khz, the signal will become misrepresented, for 27 khz, you would need a sampling rate of at least 54khz, read this http://en.wikipedia.org/w...annon_sampling_theorem think of it like a wagon wheel being spun round, and the spokes start to look like they are going backward
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Jim Roseberry
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Re:Getting better converters vs upping sampling rate/bit depth? 2013/05/16 10:19:01 (permalink)
Great converters will sound good at any sample-rate.
Mediocre converters may sound better at higher sample-rates.

Aside from converters, your mics have a HUGE effect on the captured results.
If you go with world-class converters, make sure you have front-end (mics/pre-amps) that are commensurate.
Otherwise, you won't reap the full benefits of said converters.

One other large advantage to world-class converters (and front-end) is the low noise-floor.
Upon listening to a single track, you may not hear a difference between a noise-floor of -107dB vs. -117dB.
But multiply that noise-floor across 24-48 tracks of audio... and the difference is significant.
Using higher end converters is like removing a veil of noise. 

Another facet is the recording environment (physical space).
Mic'ing with a little more distance can really help some instruments (piano, acoustic guitar, cymbals, etc).

All of this said, I think you reach a point where other factors are more important than all of the above.
If you've got a great song and a great mix, nobody is going to care what sample-rate you used.
No one is going to buy (or not buy) your record based on the sample-rate.
If the song is mediocre, recording it with the ultimate in fidelity will still result in a mediocre song. 

Best Regards,

Jim Roseberry
jim@studiocat.com
www.studiocat.com
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gerberbaby
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Re:Getting better converters vs upping sampling rate/bit depth? 2013/05/16 10:44:13 (permalink)
  how can you have $2k for an apollo but not be able to afford a better computer? You can build a beast for $1200 and $600 for a decent condenser mic that will give you more sonic detail than you ever wanted for a piano. Then last $200 on plugins. Records with hyped high end aren't the result of converters. Also the noise floor of converters is way below that of your preamp and even the space in which you record. Nudging your mic one inch will have more impact on sonics. Maybe if you find an environment completely quiet you will hear your ears ringing before noticing converter noise.  I think you answer your own question before asking it and that initial insight is correct.  
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Re:Getting better converters vs upping sampling rate/bit depth? 2013/05/16 11:23:00 (permalink)
If the song is mediocre, recording it with the ultimate in fidelity will still result in a mediocre song

 
After much testing I have verfied this to be 100% true. ;-)
 
Regards,


Mike

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WDI
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Re:Getting better converters vs upping sampling rate/bit depth? 2013/05/16 12:28:28 (permalink)
I've used 3 interfaces, 2 aardvark Q10s, Roland FA66, and Fireface 800 and I've never noticed a difference between the converters nor sample rate. At least nothing that improved the quality of the overall song. But to be honest I've never really compared the three in A/B testing. Perhaps these are mediocre interfaces and a high end one would be an obvious improvement.

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brconflict
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Re:Getting better converters vs upping sampling rate/bit depth? 2013/05/16 12:42:06 (permalink)
Converters are one of the lesser things to pay money for improvement. In my opinion, they come after great techniques/engineering, great mics, great techniques with those great mics, then great pre's, then great converters. That's about the order I think about it in. I own a MOTU 24 I/O Core, which is a mediocre A/D converter. It's top sampling rate is 96Khz, and I've been told that is the only frequency you should use it for, as the others are not optimal for the other electronics in the unit.

However, I have modded the MOTU. It now has better OP-AMPS throughout, and I've added a Black Lion Audio external clock. Both mods made a discernible difference. The OP-AMP mods made the audio a bit more lively and 3-dimensional, while the clock added clarity, especially for transients. To reprise my sequence of priorities above, this was an improvement worth going for. 

Aardvark has a new 192Khz 32-channel A/D, which looks like it may be sweet. However, as many experts will tell you, the highest sampling rate is not always the best. The best one is the one the A/D converter is designed around. For some manufacturers, 192Khz is merely a marketing decision. Read reviews and dig a bit into the modding markets. Het familiar with the technologies and how they help. Go to a studio that has multiple units and listen for yourself. You may also order A/D converters from online retailers with great return policies and audition them in your own home. Return the losers. Rent. Don't believe the hype. 

Above all else, keep this in mind: Converters shouldn't give you a "sound". They're to be as transparent as humanly and technically possible. Your pre's, mics, artists' tone, and engineering skills give you tone, not the converters. 

Brian
 
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AT
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Re:Getting better converters vs upping sampling rate/bit depth? 2013/05/16 12:45:23 (permalink) ☄ Helpful
Converters are one of the last places to look to upgrade.  Not that they ain't important, but in the great chain of sound I want them to faithfully reproduce what they are fed not "add" anything.  And I think it was Moto a few years ago that advertised they used the same converter chips that Apogge did, which was kinda silly since there were (are) only a few of these chip makers.  It is true that the other analog components that lead in and out of converters make a difference and that is what you pay for in higher cost converters, but in my opinion that money is better spent before (or after) the converters.
Most modern converters do a good job - even the low end.

A good rule of thumb is the closer to the source, the better your money is spent.  Song, performance, instruments, room, mic, preamp are all more important.  Even a low end integrated interface will do a good job on the preamp/converter aspect, as long as you don't stress the cheaper components much, ie. except 55 + dB preamp to capture a whispery voice or instrument without adding to the noise floor, or expect the same to capture dramatic volume change without crapping out.  High quality tools make an engineer's life easier and safer, besides whatever "sound' they add during capture.  And if you overdrive a converter, the digital hash it produces is on/off, obvious and nothing like the progression good analog provides going from saturation to distorition.  So I would prefer to spend money going into a converter getting whatever sound I need before.

You don't say what interface you currently have that gives you the cloudy sound.  I can say that I noticed a difference when I upgraded from a Presonus FirePod, one of the earliest 8 channel cheap integrated interfaces.  When I stepped up to a TC Konnekt I noticed a better, clearer high end.  Not night and day, as people often describe it, and in some ways the pod delivered a more "analog", rounded sound that worked better on some music.  I don't know whether this was because of the preamps in it or the converters in the pod, but it was there.  Maybe a new, even cheap interface would help if you are using an older converter?

But I wouldn't be too quick to spend $2000 on a lynx if I was recording vocals through a '57.  A mic would be a better place to put that money.  And before I'd chuck the interface I'd be tempted to get a better preamp.  And  montiors.  And room treatment.  Better recording (and techniques) makes mixing soo much easier, since you are starting w/ a more finished sound.

As others have said, higher rates might help and your interface might sound better at a higher rates.  But most of that controversy is old - most companies have figured out how to make decent filters for conversion.  Some softsynths (and effects) might sound better at 96, but most effects these days use upsampling anyway.  But try some experiments and see for yourself if upping the sample rate helps.  If so, then the money should go to a new computer.

Unless you have an older converter or one designed for gaming, you'll probably want to put the money toward the front end.

@

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Re:Getting better converters vs upping sampling rate/bit depth? 2013/05/16 13:52:47 (permalink)
@brconflict:

Aardvark disappeared years ago which was why I ditched the Q10s. I really liked the Q10s though. My interest was peaked by your reply though and did a quick search to see if they were back and could not find anything. Using 2 Q10s back around 2000 gave me 16 channels in with preamps controlled from the software which was pretty sweet at the time. 

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Re:Getting better converters vs upping sampling rate/bit depth? 2013/05/16 14:31:26 (permalink)
Thanks for all responses! i always learn a ton talking to you guys. gerber baby i didnt say i couldnt afford the computer, i said it wasnt in the cards for me right now, as i have been planning to use the money for something else. Not saying ive already decided 100% im gonna go with converters (which is why ask), this is just how i like to budget. Im sure i could find or build a great condenser for acoustics but hey, whats a great mic with average preamps and poor recording environment right? 
     Let me be clear about what the original issue is here for me: That sound that i hear when upping rate/depth? How it makes higher frequencies really crisp and sparkly? I want that sound. I dont care how i get it, the only reason i ask about converters is becuase i had been budgeting over time for some anyways, i had read that (like jim said bove) good converters will sound great at any sample rate, and i have not been budgeting for a new computer, nor would i know where to start as far as building a custom one.
     So as far as solutions, nothing is out of the question for me. I just brought up converters first because id heard they can sound great even at 44/16 and was wondering if this would be a valid way to get the result i want without having to get more processing power to support higher fidelity recording
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ASG
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Re:Getting better converters vs upping sampling rate/bit depth? 2013/05/16 14:38:29 (permalink)
Oh and im lovin that rule of thumb AT.
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ASG
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Re:Getting better converters vs upping sampling rate/bit depth? 2013/05/16 14:57:07 (permalink)
AT


Converters are one of the last places to look to upgrade.  Not that they ain't important, but in the great chain of sound I want them to faithfully reproduce what they are fed not "add" anything.  And I think it was Moto a few years ago that advertised they used the same converter chips that Apogge did, which was kinda silly since there were (are) only a few of these chip makers.  It is true that the other analog components that lead in and out of converters make a difference and that is what you pay for in higher cost converters, but in my opinion that money is better spent before (or after) the converters.
Most modern converters do a good job - even the low end.

A good rule of thumb is the closer to the source, the better your money is spent.  Song, performance, instruments, room, mic, preamp are all more important.  Even a low end integrated interface will do a good job on the preamp/converter aspect, as long as you don't stress the cheaper components much, ie. except 55 + dB preamp to capture a whispery voice or instrument without adding to the noise floor, or expect the same to capture dramatic volume change without crapping out.  High quality tools make an engineer's life easier and safer, besides whatever "sound' they add during capture.  And if you overdrive a converter, the digital hash it produces is on/off, obvious and nothing like the progression good analog provides going from saturation to distorition.  So I would prefer to spend money going into a converter getting whatever sound I need before.

You don't say what interface you currently have that gives you the cloudy sound.  I can say that I noticed a difference when I upgraded from a Presonus FirePod, one of the earliest 8 channel cheap integrated interfaces.  When I stepped up to a TC Konnekt I noticed a better, clearer high end.  Not night and day, as people often describe it, and in some ways the pod delivered a more "analog", rounded sound that worked better on some music.  I don't know whether this was because of the preamps in it or the converters in the pod, but it was there.  Maybe a new, even cheap interface would help if you are using an older converter?

But I wouldn't be too quick to spend $2000 on a lynx if I was recording vocals through a '57.  A mic would be a better place to put that money.  And before I'd chuck the interface I'd be tempted to get a better preamp.  And  montiors.  And room treatment.  Better recording (and techniques) makes mixing soo much easier, since you are starting w/ a more finished sound.

As others have said, higher rates might help and your interface might sound better at a higher rates.  But most of that controversy is old - most companies have figured out how to make decent filters for conversion.  Some softsynths (and effects) might sound better at 96, but most effects these days use upsampling anyway.  But try some experiments and see for yourself if upping the sample rate helps.  If so, then the money should go to a new computer.

Unless you have an older converter or one designed for gaming, you'll probably want to put the money toward the front end.

@
 
 
 
I use the saffire 6 usb. focusrite. It doesnt sound bad or cloudy, i think it actually sounds good. just really transparent. which is good. im just saying that that almost harsh upper clarity i want, im not getting. I definitely need to invest in monitoring, but sometimes i just stick my adk headphones directy into the interface and hear something relatively similar,
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bitflipper
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Re:Getting better converters vs upping sampling rate/bit depth? 2013/05/16 15:27:40 (permalink)
"Converters are one of the lesser things to pay money for improvement."
- brconflict


"Converters are one of the last places to look to upgrade."
- AT


"I've never noticed a difference between the converters nor sample rate."
- WDI


"other factors are more important"
- Jim Roseberry


Seeing a trend here, ASG?


If you're unhappy with the quality of your recordings, there are a great many possible reasons for that. But it's a pretty sure bet that none of them is your audio interface.


All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

My Stuff
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brconflict
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Re:Getting better converters vs upping sampling rate/bit depth? 2013/05/16 15:36:45 (permalink)
If you've taken Calculus classes, you should be aware of how sampling works and how accurate it can be. If you mow a fenced-in lawn (with a curved fence, much like a sine wave) with back and forth strokes only, and even if you get most of it, there's still some places you need to weed-eat. However, the smaller the mower, the more you accurately cut and the less weed-eating you need to do. This is analogous to sampling frequencies (samples of an analog audio signal). 

If you look at a sine wave or simply, and audio signal, then draw exact non-overlapping vertically-standing equal-width rectangles underneath the waveform, with no corners crossing the waveform line, (much like the mower swipes in a yard with a curved fence), you can see that the larger the rectangles, the more space under the analog waveform is not covered by the rectangles. All the rectangles are "measurements" to figure out the waveform in digital conversion (for illustration). The more slender width the rectangles are, the more you have to draw to take up the space, but you get a more accurate measurement of the analog signal. 

This is analogous to sampling frequency. The higher the sampling frequency, the more accurate the digital conversion. However, a poor clock can make some rectangles overlap or leave complete gaps.   

Bit-depth (i.e. 16 or 24-bit) is a different measurement. It's more related to dynamics, and can apply more headroom from -infinity to 0db. I can't really get too technical here, but those two can be delved into and sold and bought separately. In other words, you can have 64-Bit 44.1Khz audio. Doesn't make sense to, but you can.

With that said, there are no A/D converters at 44.1Khz that are really accurate. It's the analog electronics and clock in the unit that make for a better unit. If those are bad in a 192Khz sampling A/D converter, it can sound smeared and lacking detail. However, a 44.1Khz A/D with a tight clock and great analog electronics might sound terrific, but it may not accurately sample the higher frequencies (Like trying to mow a yard with a more severely wavy or zig-zaggy fence using a 30" wide mower that may just have to skip some of those crevices). 

Brian
 
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drewfx1
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Re:Getting better converters vs upping sampling rate/bit depth? 2013/05/16 15:55:03 (permalink)
brconflict


This is analogous to sampling frequency. The higher the sampling frequency, the more accurate the digital conversion. However, a poor clock can make some rectangles overlap or leave complete gaps.   
No.

The only place a higher sampling frequency gives a more accurate conversion is just below the lower sampling rate's Nyquist frequency (due to the filtering not being perfect). 

But it's not like the filters are a real world problem when using decent modern technology, even at 44.1kHz, given human hearing limitations and the lack of enough signal level at those frequencies (in almost anything other than test tones) to be audible.

 In order, then, to discover the limit of deepest tones, it is necessary not only to produce very violent agitations in the air but to give these the form of simple pendular vibrations. - Hermann von Helmholtz, predicting the role of the electric bassist in 1877.
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Re:Getting better converters vs upping sampling rate/bit depth? 2013/05/16 16:20:10 (permalink)
drewfx1


brconflict


This is analogous to sampling frequency. The higher the sampling frequency, the more accurate the digital conversion. However, a poor clock can make some rectangles overlap or leave complete gaps.   
No.

The only place a higher sampling frequency gives a more accurate conversion is just below the lower sampling rate's Nyquist frequency (due to the filtering not being perfect). 

But it's not like the filters are a real world problem when using decent modern technology, even at 44.1kHz, given human hearing limitations and the lack of enough signal level at those frequencies (in almost anything other than test tones) to be audible.
Are we talking about A/D or D/A? What you're describing sounds more like D/A.


Brian
 
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drewfx1
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Re:Getting better converters vs upping sampling rate/bit depth? 2013/05/16 17:12:15 (permalink)
brconflict


drewfx1


brconflict


This is analogous to sampling frequency. The higher the sampling frequency, the more accurate the digital conversion. However, a poor clock can make some rectangles overlap or leave complete gaps.   
No.

The only place a higher sampling frequency gives a more accurate conversion is just below the lower sampling rate's Nyquist frequency (due to the filtering not being perfect). 

But it's not like the filters are a real world problem when using decent modern technology, even at 44.1kHz, given human hearing limitations and the lack of enough signal level at those frequencies (in almost anything other than test tones) to be audible.
Are we talking about A/D or D/A? What you're describing sounds more like D/A.
Either or. 

In terms of conversion, higher sampling rate = higher frequencies. It's "more accurate" only in the sense that the transition band near the Nyquist frequency is at a higher frequency. Nothing more to it than that.


 In order, then, to discover the limit of deepest tones, it is necessary not only to produce very violent agitations in the air but to give these the form of simple pendular vibrations. - Hermann von Helmholtz, predicting the role of the electric bassist in 1877.
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AT
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Re:Getting better converters vs upping sampling rate/bit depth? 2013/05/16 17:22:19 (permalink)
ASG,

now you've done it.  We have another sample-rate war going on.  I can already hear my head hurting w/ all the math.

Let me get this straight - if you record at higher rates w/ the saffire you hear the upper register better?  If that is the problem, then the solution is a faster computer that can run your larger projects.  However, I'd be sure about that.  Get someone to help you do blind tests.  I've found that most of the change you hear is expectation, not reality.  a lot of gear gets bought because of this.  Most upgrades are subtle in nature and sound.  You really need to approach this scientifically or figure you have the need, and damn it, you are going to buy it (happens to me far too often, even if I don't have the cash at hand).  Nothing wrong w/ that but you can end up chasing your tail.

One of the things about buying great equipment is the surety you get from it.  It must be my bad mic positioning, not the mic or XYZ preamp or Lynx converters since they are top notch.  If you spend enough money you run out of excuses and have to look at yourself and your technique.

I wouldn't think a Saffire would sound that much different at 96.  If it does, and you want to buy some new converters, go for it.  The lynx are good - professional grade.  Goldfrappe uses them I know, and other people who mix/record for a living (and a good living for a couple of them) use them.  $2000 for an 8x8 ADDA Aurora.  It is modular - you can put in a card to let you hook up to ProTools, or AES, or FW but most likely USB, which is supposed to work well.  You won't be able to use the Saffire w/ it, even if that unit has digital in/out (unless you use the AES option and a pice card in your computer that has ADAT too.  And no preamps.  The Lynx Hilo is about the same price, but a stereo mastering unit w/ digital ADAT i/o.  The RME is used by many here as well as plenty of professional studios.  Good hardware, great drivers.  I use a TC Konnekt 48.  Good hardware, not so great drivers (tho they swear they are getting better).  And like Hilo and RME you should be able to use your saffire's digital connections.  Any of those will provide a "never having to say you are sorry" sound quality.  I've never heard the apollo, but it should be fine, tho the main draw seems to be the uad dsp that comes with it (and I know professionals who have given up their hardware for UAD dsp since it is "close enough."

Nothing wrong w/ buying good gear, just be sure ....  After a few weeks you might wonder if what you heard was the problem and you have only attenuated it, not killed it.

@

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http://www.bnoir-film.com/  
 
there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
#20
ASG
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Re:Getting better converters vs upping sampling rate/bit depth? 2013/05/16 18:24:48 (permalink)
Hit the nail on the head AT.
 Guess ill start looking into custom machines.
#21
brconflict
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Re:Getting better converters vs upping sampling rate/bit depth? 2013/05/16 18:50:07 (permalink)
When shopping around, do yourself a favor and ask (especially when it comes to money), how fast would you make profits to pay for it. Is it for occasional use (i.e. weekly vs. day and night), and are you going to lose contracts because it's not good enough? I get irritated when I read forums where people gloat that they bought a Lynx Aurora A/D and claim it's leaps and bounds beyond a MOTU at half the cost. I believe I can hear a difference between my MOTU pre-mod and post-mod. It's not significant, but that's relative, considering the differences I've gained from better pre's, mics, and musicians. Even my plugins have made more significant differences. 

If you can save to get a good A/D-D/A converter, but getting the best will break the bank, then does it really make sense to get the best? 

"Build (buy) it and they will come" rarely works in the studio industry, unfortunately. A studio with the absolute best converters remains unknown compared to a studio that has made hit after hit, and has the exposure, engineering, and skills to make hits. I made full use of that theology and saved $1,000 buy getting a middle of the road converter for my studio. If I start getting better business, I'll upgrade. Until then, I've got a great converter that works for me.


Brian
 
Sonar Platinum, Steinberg Wavelab Pro 9, MOTU 24CoreIO w/ low-slew OP-AMP mods and BLA external clock, True P8, Audient ASP008, API 512c, Chandler Germ500, Summit 2ba-221, GAP Pre-73, Peluso 22251, Peluso 2247LE, Mackie HR824, Polk Audio SRS-SDA 2.3tl w/upgraded Soniccraft crossovers and Goertz cables, powered by Pass-X350. All wiring Star-Quad XLR or Monster Cable. Power by Monster Power Signature AVS2000 voltage stabilizer and Signature Pro Power 5100 PowerCenter on a 20A isolation shielded circuit.
#22
gswitz
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Re:Getting better converters vs upping sampling rate/bit depth? 2013/05/16 18:51:01 (permalink)
I think the clock can matter. I used a M-Audio Fast Track Ultra for 5 or 6 years and in November 2012 upgraded to an RME Fireface UCX. I still use the Fast Track when I want 2 tracks more than the 8 the Fireface can capture. There is no doubt that I hear improvement in the sound. The clock helps on the way in and the way out (A/D and then the other way for the monitoring D/A). And I can say that the Fastrack sounds better when slaved to the UCX. I can also say that 24 bit 44.1 sounds amazing to me. But I'm 43 and my hearing isn't what it once was.

StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
#23
brconflict
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Re:Getting better converters vs upping sampling rate/bit depth? 2013/05/16 18:52:36 (permalink)
The clock makes the biggest difference when recording many tracks at once, and with accuracy in transients. That's where my BLA clock makes a difference.

Brian
 
Sonar Platinum, Steinberg Wavelab Pro 9, MOTU 24CoreIO w/ low-slew OP-AMP mods and BLA external clock, True P8, Audient ASP008, API 512c, Chandler Germ500, Summit 2ba-221, GAP Pre-73, Peluso 22251, Peluso 2247LE, Mackie HR824, Polk Audio SRS-SDA 2.3tl w/upgraded Soniccraft crossovers and Goertz cables, powered by Pass-X350. All wiring Star-Quad XLR or Monster Cable. Power by Monster Power Signature AVS2000 voltage stabilizer and Signature Pro Power 5100 PowerCenter on a 20A isolation shielded circuit.
#24
ASG
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Re:Getting better converters vs upping sampling rate/bit depth? 2013/05/16 20:53:30 (permalink)
Ok something I forgot to ask earlier is does everything have to be set to the same rate/depth? My interface, sonar, and my plugins all have the option to adjust these settings in their control panel, do they all have to be set to the same settings?
#25
AT
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Re:Getting better converters vs upping sampling rate/bit depth? 2013/05/16 21:59:00 (permalink)
They should pick up from the master - which would be the interface.  But it is always good to check SONAR's many pages of sync options just to make sure.

https://soundcloud.com/a-pleasure-dome
http://www.bnoir-film.com/  
 
there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
#26
ASG
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Re:Getting better converters vs upping sampling rate/bit depth? 2013/05/16 22:38:45 (permalink)
I see. I ask be because what if different devices support different rates. For example if the "master" only supports 44k and your soft synths can do 96 or 192, what happens in a scenario like that?
#27
scook
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Re:Getting better converters vs upping sampling rate/bit depth? 2013/05/16 22:46:09 (permalink)
Plugins (including soft synths) rely on the host settings to communicate with the host. What they do internally depends on the plugin.
#28
rabeach
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Re:Getting better converters vs upping sampling rate/bit depth? 2013/05/16 23:05:07 (permalink)
With the higher priced a/d d/a systems you are paying for stable clocking and well designed low pass filters. If you can hear the difference then it may be worth it to you but as everyone else has pointed out there are many other things to consider.
#29
ASG
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Re:Getting better converters vs upping sampling rate/bit depth? 2013/05/17 00:10:56 (permalink)
But would one need one of those higher priced ad da systems if they already had an upscale computer? Or vice versa? Cant a good custom computer handle clocking issues? I lack in both those departments right now and I can afford to get one or the other. So at this point im wondering just out of curiostiy, if I get a good custom pc now, will I still need to get converters later? 
#30
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