Getting the Guitars to Stand Out More.....

The guitars are too fizzy to begin with...if you can't re record them at least flatten out the eq....they need more bottom end (200-500 hz)...if you want the guitars "more in your face" boost eq between 2-3 khz

I scrolled through the clip to hear the guitar portion, I hear what you mean.

 Basically using the EQ graph, on the bottom end select low shelving on 1 then high shelving on number 6, click on each low then high shelf and drag down to the bottom. The slope is shallow on default, click on Q and increase that value so that the slope will appear steeper.
 
 The guitar will need to be peak or dip with maybe somewhere about 800Hz, this part requires substantial gain above the zero on the graph to get the guitar to stand out.

 Now adjust the low self to a point where the lower frequency doesn't muddle with your kick drum's note.
Likewise the top shelf needs to be tweaked to keep the frequencies above 4KHz from etching your guitar timber, close miking with SM57 will pick up those nasty highs that requires trimming,

The mid band can really throw the guitars timber out, careful band selection and ears required.

Another strategy to get the guitar to stand out is to pan that track left or right with the synth track panned opposite of the guitar

When mixing you need to develop an idea of what frequencies effect the timber of what instruments, sort of takes a while and patience to grasp.

Rski


I scrolled through the clip to hear the guitar portion, I hear what you mean.

Basically using the EQ graph, on the bottom end select low shelving on 1 then high shelving on number 6, click on each low then high shelf and drag down to the bottom. The slope is shallow on default, click on Q and increase that value so that the slope will appear steeper.

The guitar will need to be peak or dip with maybe somewhere about 800Hz, this part requires substantial gain above the zero on the graph to get the guitar to stand out.

Now adjust the low self to a point where the lower frequency doesn't muddle with your kick drum's note.
Likewise the top shelf needs to be tweaked to keep the frequencies above 4KHz from etching your guitar timber, close miking with SM57 will pick up those nasty highs that requires trimming,

The mid band can really throw the guitars timber out, careful band selection and ears required.

Another strategy to get the guitar to stand out is to pan that track left or right with the synth track panned opposite of the guitar

When mixing you need to develop an idea of what frequencies effect the timber of what instruments, sort of takes a while and patience to grasp.

I think you mean High Pass Filter on EQ band 1 and Low Pass filter on EQ band 4.

Shelf EQ is a different animal.

If the guitar has to be turned up too much to make it heard then it is time to turn everything else down (and your speaker volume up).

Complimentary EQ is an art form and requires a lot of practise it get right. There are no quick fixes or easy advice. Just keep trying. Playing with an EQ is not destructive, so just try things. Welcome to mixing!

@ Gaffpro: Yeah, see when ya say "they need more bottom end (200-500 hz)...if you want the guitars "more in your face" boost eq between 2-3 khz" I don't understand the hz and kHz in the context of where exactly to move my eq settings... Like I said, I am such a visual learner, it's really hard for me to read something like this that I have no knowledge of and apply it without seeing it done...

@ vinski: Yep, I got tons to learn... I'll hit up that site and see what i can do... i wish there was more video of eq'ing online, like you see with guitar instructional stuff....

@ Rski: yeah the EQ I showed wasn't mine, I'm at work right now and I put that up there to show it was a similar EQ program to what i had with Sonar... I'll try your suggestions though..

@ dmmi: Yeah i quad tracked, using 4 different distortion sounds.. Was a suggestion I read about on beefing up the guitar sounds... Would just double tracking with the same sound be better? also when I recorded i used the stereo setting, and then plugged into the right side of the interface, that gives you a signal only to the right.. Should I maybe select the right input instead of stereo and then pan 100% to the right?

TheEdster75


nprime I clicked on your link, but it takes me right back to this post...

Fixed

Khz is when it tops over 999 hz. Just a math thang
For example:
200 hz
400 hz
800 hz
1 khz
2 khz
3 khz

Again, because of the fizz already on the track, anything above 3k is going to make it worse. What guitar, amp, effects, etc. did you use?

I think you're getting way ahead of yourself. And, like most newbies, you think because you've got an EQ you have to use it. The drums seem to be the problem to me specially the hat. way too bright. Use the EQ to remove frequencies, not add unless you're going for some effect. I very rarely boost any EQ. 

FasterBikerBoy, the only thing that popped up on that link was: Bad Request.. lol!!!

can ya try again, not sure what you were trying to send me.. Very interested in seeing what that was...

Ignore the numbers and use your ears. You can't break anything by grabbing one of the frequencies, boosting it and sweeping it around, then cutting it and sweeping it around. Listen to what happens to your guitar sound as you slowly sweep up and down through the frequencies. You ears will tell you if youre are boosting what you need or cutting what you don't need on each guitar sound.

The only way to learn what the EQ does is to play with it. Don't EQ with your eyes, EQ with your ears.

If I had 4 guitar tracks I would pan them each to a different location and then start to take a little bit of one frequency down on one track and try boosting the same frequency on one of the other tracks. Even a boost or cut of 3-4 dB can make a difference. Do this for each guitar, cut a different frequency out of each of the 4 sounds, see if that doesn't open up more space for each one to sit in the mix.

I am personally more of a "cutter" than a "booster", but let your ears decide. Just be careful to watch the overall track level when boosting frequencies, you still need to stay below 0 on the track meter to avoid distortion.

Remember, this is supposed to be fun, so take some time to just play with it.

Happy mixing.

If you want punch use a single well played guitar track.

The easiest way to make the guitar stand out is too write songs with arrangements that don't create confusion in the sonic regions you want to remain clear and articulate.

In the this song I think the first solution is to simply turn down the synths when the guitar kicks in.. basic old fashioned level riding is the first thing this song needs. Those synths are really loud and using the same space that your arranged for your guitar.

Also the kick drum in the track sounds like a tom tom... the bulk of it's tone is up at (just guessing) about 80hz with overtones up to 200Hz...  so it's robbing the lower energy that the guitar might reach down too... if the guitar had any bass... with those big chords you might as well whack the fat strings too. Why not? :-)

I think it's a fine song... and some balancing is all it really needs. On a spectrum analysis you don't even see the guitar show up because it is simply buried under the synth. (rest assured I listened 3 times on my big system before I open the tools)


The advice about layering guitar sound to get more punch is my least favorite advice... people talk about it all the time... but they are basically just turning up the guitar by adding 3dB every time they double... and when you double with extra effects treatment split out... you get more wash and movement and LESS punch. In the example that was offered the guitar is just freaking loud. Lucky for me I LOVE loud guitar.

The reality is that your listening environment only has so much room before everything fills up... you have to balance it to get what you want to stand out and all that matters is that the band is happy with results. You have to leave some room in the space for the impression of punch to be created.

Good luck with the mixing,
mike

Just want to send out a quick shout out to everyone and thank you for all this great advice!!!

Much appreciated!!!

Everything Mike says is true. The root of the problem is always the arrangement and orchestration of the parts.

I have never understood the endless fascination that guitar players have with layering, especially the exact same sound multiple times. Unless they have stunningly good timing they are bound to actually destroy any hope of "punch".

High pass EQ on electric guitars (or any, for that matter) is a must. Roll off everything under 80Hz. Of course, use your ears.

And also, it's always better to try and get "the" sound straight outta the amp. Use EQ for minor corrections only, cutting preferably and boosting only a little... if at all.

A general rule to avoid wall of mud or lifeless tracks -
the more harmonically rich the tracks are the less of them will fit in your mix.
Especially if the harmonic material is similar such as in using the same guitar patch in your amp sim for multiple tracks.

If your are going to have multiple guitar tracks try dialing down the distortion.
Try adding some compression if you need more sustain.
If the mix includes screaming synths or keys swimming in effects you might need to clean things up a bit too. 

One guitar track can dripping with huge amounts distortion, phasing, delay and verb if the only other thing happening is clean drums, bass and vocals.
For example I've got a Line6 Spider amp that has an 'Insane' setting that just screams until you try to mix in another 'Insane' track and then they just muddy each other up.
 
More isn't always better...

A direct box is your friend. I always try to take a clean (un-amped) track via direct box as well as the distorted track when I record guitar. Once you have too much distortion (or the wrong type) on a track you can't undo it. It sounds a bit like you have too much going on in the 2-4k area. Perhaps a gentle cut in the non-guitar tracks in that area will bring the guitars forward a bit. I agree the guitars sound fizzy and thin, hopefully some corrective EQ will help. Another thing you're fighting is the sustained nature of the part played doesn't allow for frequent attacks (strumming with a bit of space in between). When you have those dynamic edges to work with, things like double-tracking, wide-panning, mid-side plugins, and detuning, haas effect can help fatten up guitar tracks.