Getting virtual instruments to sound like they were recorded in the same room

For 10 years I used an external synth (Korg Triton) for all my sounds and effects.  I gradually tired of the Triton's individual instrument sounds (the drums in particular), so last year switched to soft synths, with Kontakt and Dimension Pro as the main sources. 

What I'm finding is that although individual virtual instruments sound more realistic than the Triton, when I play a bunch of them together, they don't sound like they were recorded in the same space.  The bass sounds too close, the piano too distant, the drums off in their own little world.  Parts of the mix are too dense, other parts are too sparse.

The Triton may have sounded "keyboardish" at times, but since its limited effects required me to send all instruments through the same reverb (and often the same compressor), the end result was that all the instruments sounded like they were recorded together, in the same space. 

So I'm wondering: how do I get virtual instruments to sound like they were recorded in the same space?

I'm not extremely picky or anything.  I don't have "golden ears", and am in no way a perfectionist when it comes to making music. 

Here's an example of a recent soft synth song/test where I couldn't get the instruments to sound "together": http://tripalot.com/tripe...bums/redebut/#shingles (mp3)

In contract, here's an example of a similarly airheaded Triton song which might have cheesier individual sounds, but as a whole sounds more cohesive (to me): http://tripalot.com/tripe...ums/sixawon/#sonar-who (mp3)

How can I get virtual instruments to sound more cohesive, like the Triton? 

Thanks for the response!

I tried the reverb send approach you mentioned yesterday, and had a couple problems with it:

1) The send control is HUGE.  I wish it were more the size of a volume or pan control.  I wish there were a way to minimize it, so that once we select the bus,  PRE/POST, and pan, we can hide those parts of it and just see the send level.  Do you know if there is a way to do that?

2) The reverb I picked didn't sound as good for all instruments.  I randomly picked Sonitus reverb presets until I found a large room reverb that sounded good on the piano... but then it didn't sound good on the drums, and the bass sounded horrible.  So I picked a smaller room preset which sounded good on the bass, but then the drums and piano sounded too dry, despite my cranking the reverb level to the max.  And so on.  I never found a preset that reached the "good enough" point.

What type of reverb works best for getting the instruments to mix well?  Would that be a small room reverb, a hall reverb, a combination of both, or something else?

On the Triton I usually used a room reverb and hall reverb for master effects.  I also had all or most of the instruments going through the same (insert effect) compressor.  So there were at least 3 effects they all had in common, all in a chain:

compressor -> room reverb -> hall reverb.

Is that the sort of thing I need to setup in Sonar?  And then send everything to the compressor?

I'm also confused about whether I should make the reverbs 100% wet or a split between and dry.  If I am sending tracks directly to a reverb, it seems like the reverb should be 100% wet.  However, if I send everything to a compressor, and then the compressor to the reverb, then it seems like I should include some dry signal in the reverb as well, so that there is some compressed dry signal.

Sorry. I forgot. Set your sends on the channels to the reverb bus. Set the reverb plugin output to all Effect and no dry. The reverb effect will be mixed in with the dry signal of the track.

Make sure you are using a send on each instrument. On the send there is a window for you to assign where that signal is going. The output of your track should be going to the master output. The outout of your reverb buss should be set for the master output buss,as well. This way you are controlling the amount of reverb mixed with the dry sound of all the tracks. I hope I am explaining this clear enough. It can get confusing.

Tripecac


Thanks for the response!

I tried the reverb send approach you mentioned yesterday, and had a couple problems with it:

1) The send control is HUGE.  I wish it were more the size of a volume or pan control.  I wish there were a way to minimize it, so that once we select the bus,  PRE/POST, and pan, we can hide those parts of it and just see the send level.  Do you know if there is a way to do that?

Are you using the Send in the Track View or the Console View? In both views there is a wide view and a narrow view. You can also hide controls you aren't using.

I'm using Track View.  The Send control itself is about twice as wide and tall as the volume control, because of the various options (bus selection, pre/post, send pan).  I'd love if there were a way to get a simplified send control, with just a single send level.

Tripecac


I'm using Track View.  The Send control itself is about twice as wide and tall as the volume control, because of the various options (bus selection, pre/post, send pan).  I'd love if there were a way to get a simplified send control, with just a single send level.

Try this, maybe it will help. Click the three little arrows at the bottom right corner of the Track Inspector to open the TI sub-menu. I have hi-lited in Red how to enable the Compact Display. You also have the option of having 2 Sends or 4 Sends showing.

Ah,Chappel! Can't thank you enough. I've been so busy learning X1, I have forgotten 8.5. Guess I need to pull it back up and blow out my cobwebs. LOL!

Those are useful tips, but only if I use Console View or the Track Inspector, and I currently don't do either!  I always use Track View.

I can't find a way to compact the send display in Track View, unfortunately!

Tripecac


Those are useful tips, but only if I use Console View or the Track Inspector, and I currently don't do either!  I always use Track View.

I can't find a way to compact the send display in Track View, unfortunately!

Ah, I see. So you are using this view to control the Send?

This is the smallest footprint I can give it. I don't think it can be made any smaller.

Just checking back in. Bvideo is correct when he tells you that panning is also a critical point. Using both the track pan and the send pan on one instrument can create a definitive space in the mix for an instrument. It will also sometimes clean up the mix as well. Too many instruments in one position in the pan field can really muddy things up fast.