Helpful ReplyGibson Guitar May Default If Company Can't Refinance Its Debt ... Anything to worry about?

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aidanodr
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2017/08/23 21:29:19 (permalink)

Gibson Guitar May Default If Company Can't Refinance Its Debt ... Anything to worry about?

https://www.thestreet.com/story/14280618/1/gibson-guitar-may-default-if-company-can-t-refinance-its-debt.html
 
What's lower than a B? The financial rating of Gibson Brands Inc.

The famed guitar maker had its rating lowered to Caa3, nine notches into junk territory, with a negative outlook, as maturity of $520 million in debt approaches.

The privately-held company will need to refinance the debt before July 2018 or it faces a likely default. Moody's Investors Service Inc. said last week that there's "uncertainty" about the company's ability to refinance this debt and that its capital structure is "unsustainable." Gibson didn't respond to request for comment.

 
Anything to worry about??
#1
TerraSin
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Re: Gibson Guitar May Default If Company Can't Refinance Its Debt ... Anything to worry ab 2017/08/23 21:44:33 (permalink)
aidanodr
Anything to worry about??

No
#2
bapu
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Re: Gibson Guitar May Default If Company Can't Refinance Its Debt ... Anything to worry ab 2017/08/23 21:46:44 (permalink)
I'm far more worried about what I will have for dinner.
 
My SPlat works just fine. If development stopped tomorrow it would still operate just fine.
#3
craigb
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Re: Gibson Guitar May Default If Company Can't Refinance Its Debt ... Anything to worry ab 2017/08/23 21:51:14 (permalink)


 
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
#4
drewfx1
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Re: Gibson Guitar May Default If Company Can't Refinance Its Debt ... Anything to worry ab 2017/08/23 21:55:41 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby pentimentosound 2017/08/23 23:30:32
Everyone in the musical instrument business should always be worried. As e-mu founder Dave Rossum likes to joke, "the hard part of the music market is your customers are always broke".

 In order, then, to discover the limit of deepest tones, it is necessary not only to produce very violent agitations in the air but to give these the form of simple pendular vibrations. - Hermann von Helmholtz, predicting the role of the electric bassist in 1877.
#5
bapu
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Re: Gibson Guitar May Default If Company Can't Refinance Its Debt ... Anything to worry ab 2017/08/23 21:58:27 (permalink)
I'm broken 
#6
bapu
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Re: Gibson Guitar May Default If Company Can't Refinance Its Debt ... Anything to worry ab 2017/08/23 22:33:41 (permalink)
in.
 
#7
craigb
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Re: Gibson Guitar May Default If Company Can't Refinance Its Debt ... Anything to worry ab 2017/08/23 22:42:20 (permalink)
But are you in tune? 

 
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
#8
bapu
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Re: Gibson Guitar May Default If Company Can't Refinance Its Debt ... Anything to worry ab 2017/08/23 22:46:25 (permalink)
I have MellowDine.
#9
pentimentosound
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Re: Gibson Guitar May Default If Company Can't Refinance Its Debt ... Anything to worry ab 2017/08/23 23:32:17 (permalink)
Someone on the FB Cakewalk Sonar User's Group, mentioned that Cakewalk would most likely be sold off, should that happen. I suppose Tascam would be, also.
Michael
#10
sharke
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Re: Gibson Guitar May Default If Company Can't Refinance Its Debt ... Anything to worry ab 2017/08/23 23:33:42 (permalink)
Maybe Roland will buy them back

James
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#11
BobF
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Re: Gibson Guitar May Default If Company Can't Refinance Its Debt ... Anything to worry ab 2017/08/23 23:43:56 (permalink)
I hope whoever buys TASCAM fixes the US16x08 drivers

Bob  --
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#12
pentimentosound
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Re: Gibson Guitar May Default If Company Can't Refinance Its Debt ... Anything to worry ab 2017/08/23 23:44:40 (permalink)
yeah...... and updates the us1641 again! LOL
 
#13
TerraSin
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Re: Gibson Guitar May Default If Company Can't Refinance Its Debt ... Anything to worry ab 2017/08/23 23:46:38 (permalink)
sharke
Maybe Roland will buy them back

You just shut your mouth! :P
#14
lawajava
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Re: Gibson Guitar May Default If Company Can't Refinance Its Debt ... Anything to worry ab 2017/08/24 00:10:16 (permalink)
I like what Gibson makes. Many of the different product lines I like a lot. Of course that includes their guitars, and Epiphone line of guitars as well. Tascam, Cakewalk, KRK. Geez.

Sure would be nice if it could sustain. Doesn't sound promising though.

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#15
mixmkr
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Re: Gibson Guitar May Default If Company Can't Refinance Its Debt ... Anything to worry ab 2017/08/24 00:26:59 (permalink)
I guess the value of original korina V's might go up?.... Or a 59 paul?

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#16
BobF
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Re: Gibson Guitar May Default If Company Can't Refinance Its Debt ... Anything to worry ab 2017/08/24 00:41:22 (permalink)
Hey, maybe those robot tuning machines will be worth something to collectors!!

Bob  --
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#17
timidi
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Re: Gibson Guitar May Default If Company Can't Refinance Its Debt ... Anything to worry ab 2017/08/24 00:49:34 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby bayoubill 2017/08/24 04:13:31
Microsoft needs a "Garage band" in their OS.

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#18
bayoubill
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Re: Gibson Guitar May Default If Company Can't Refinance Its Debt ... Anything to worry ab 2017/08/24 04:15:03 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby bapu 2017/08/24 17:03:25


SWAMP MUSIC
Sonar PLATINUM        
Studio Cat DAW
 
 
      
  
 
#19
.
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Re: Gibson Guitar May Default If Company Can't Refinance Its Debt ... Anything to worry ab 2017/08/24 06:57:46 (permalink)
As I mentioned in the other thread, I have read at many places around the where people refer to Gibson as the place where products go to die, I can't recall them, but they often supply a list of products that have been taken over by them only to go down the tubes. Gibson really doesn't have that good of a reputation around the traps, fair enough their guitars (but even they can take a battering) but as a company, guess that makes SONAR and Cakewalk a good match, because they don't exactly have a good rep either (outside these forums)

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#20
slartabartfast
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Re: Gibson Guitar May Default If Company Can't Refinance Its Debt ... Anything to worry ab 2017/08/24 09:26:00 (permalink)
bapu
My SPlat works just fine. If development stopped tomorrow it would still operate just fine.


Unless the last guy to leave shuts down the servers that let you install and run it on a new machine. There is no obligation for a bankrupt company to continue service to customers, and no source of revenue to ensure that it will. 
#21
bitman
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Re: Gibson Guitar May Default If Company Can't Refinance Its Debt ... Anything to worry ab 2017/08/24 12:48:54 (permalink)
I don't understand why Cakewalk needs a parent company anyway.
Seems like any brownstone that could contain the staff would be sufficient for Noel and the newbies to
bang away at features and bugs. The software isn't boxed and they don't even need phones anymore so, yeah.
 
 
#22
Slugbaby
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Re: Gibson Guitar May Default If Company Can't Refinance Its Debt ... Anything to worry ab 2017/08/24 13:32:51 (permalink)
bitman
I don't understand why Cakewalk needs a parent company anyway.
Seems like any brownstone that could contain the staff would be sufficient for Noel and the newbies to
bang away at features and bugs. The software isn't boxed and they don't even need phones anymore so, yeah.
 
 


Agreed.  I'm sure the CW side of the equation is a money-maker.  In the worst case, another company would buy Cakewalk from Gibson.   CW probably funds the ideas like robot tuners...
 
I wonder how much Gibson (& Fender) are pricing themselves out of the new guitar market?  I was in a chain store the other day, and a new Telecaster (not a Gibson guy, but i'd assume they're similarly marked up) cost around $1800CAD.  I bought a new MIM model back in 1991 for $350CAD and put in another $200 for new pickups, and it still sounds and feels as good as a new USA model.  At most, i could probably sell it for $500.  You could buy my guitar, an incredible amp, and guitar lessons for 2 years for what a new Tele costs today!

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#23
outland144k
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Re: Gibson Guitar May Default If Company Can't Refinance Its Debt ... Anything to worry ab 2017/08/24 16:32:54 (permalink)
I found quite a few references on the web going back a number of years about "dire financial troubles" (July 2009 was the date of one early comment) for Gibson. Why is this report substantially different? I'm not trying to be combative, just wondering....

“Beer is proof God loves us and wants us to be happy” is attributed to Benjamin Franklin perhaps in error, but the thought remains a worthy sentiment nonetheless.

 
 
 
 
 
#24
bitman
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Re: Gibson Guitar May Default If Company Can't Refinance Its Debt ... Anything to worry ab 2017/08/24 16:38:51 (permalink)
If Les Pauls would be 600.00 again or less, they wouldn't be able to make em fast enough. But no.... The have the Cadillac syndrome and it's taking them down.
#25
bapu
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Re: Gibson Guitar May Default If Company Can't Refinance Its Debt ... Anything to worry ab 2017/08/24 17:03:01 (permalink)
And there was that guy a few weeks back that just learned that CW was owned by Gibson.
 
I wonder what he's thinking today?
#26
slartabartfast
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Re: Gibson Guitar May Default If Company Can't Refinance Its Debt ... Anything to worry ab 2017/08/24 17:05:46 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Voda La Void 2017/08/24 20:22:06
bitman
If Les Pauls would be 600.00 again or less, they wouldn't be able to make em fast enough. But no.... The have the Cadillac syndrome and it's taking them down.


I think it would be pretty difficult to out cutthroat the makers of really cheap, while still reasonably playable, guitars. The only clear winners in the post-2008 world are the purveyors of luxury goods, for which the new even more wealthy gladly spend much more than value for the status of the brand. These luxury goods did well even through the depths of the recession, and lowering the price of such commodities devalues the brand dramatically. Most of the big guitar makers have introduced a variety of value lines, that sell at a quarter to half the price of their status instruments, but that may just represent a strategy of competing against themselves.  
 
One issue is the massive decline in guitar sales to young musicians, for which the popularity of rap and hiphop are largely to blame. The days of five guitarists and a drummer mounting the stage for an hour of pandemonium as the norm, have been replaced by lesser poets reciting doggerel while a crew of twenty guys with nothing in their hands wanders about the stage aimlessly. If you can get laid, let alone rich, without having to bruise your fingers or learn to do anything except speak, then taking up guitar is not so attractive. 
 
The other major impact on the guitar market is the trend for young musicians to produce their work in the box, using SONAR or one of its many easier to master competitors. If you want to do that, then it makes more sense to pick up keyboards, than fretboards. Even with that keyboard incentive, the sales of wood and wire pianos has largely tanked. Why spend the money on a device that cannot talk to your computer? 
#27
bapu
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Re: Gibson Guitar May Default If Company Can't Refinance Its Debt ... Anything to worry ab 2017/08/24 17:13:01 (permalink)

 
Cure the "purist" debaters.
#28
paulo
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Re: Gibson Guitar May Default If Company Can't Refinance Its Debt ... Anything to worry ab 2017/08/24 17:52:40 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby bapu 2017/08/24 21:19:26
bapu
And there was that guy a few weeks back that just learned that CW was owned by Gibson.
 
I wonder what he's thinking today?




Probably won't notice,
 
but FF to the year 2021..........
 
"Hey, how come Gibson is suddenly having financial issues?"
#29
BobF
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Re: Gibson Guitar May Default If Company Can't Refinance Its Debt ... Anything to worry ab 2017/08/24 20:06:46 (permalink)
slartabartfast
bitman
If Les Pauls would be 600.00 again or less, they wouldn't be able to make em fast enough. But no.... The have the Cadillac syndrome and it's taking them down.


I think it would be pretty difficult to out cutthroat the makers of really cheap, while still reasonably playable, guitars. The only clear winners in the post-2008 world are the purveyors of luxury goods, for which the new even more wealthy gladly spend much more than value for the status of the brand. These luxury goods did well even through the depths of the recession, and lowering the price of such commodities devalues the brand dramatically. Most of the big guitar makers have introduced a variety of value lines, that sell at a quarter to half the price of their status instruments, but that may just represent a strategy of competing against themselves.  
 
One issue is the massive decline in guitar sales to young musicians, for which the popularity of rap and hiphop are largely to blame. The days of five guitarists and a drummer mounting the stage for an hour of pandemonium as the norm, have been replaced by lesser poets reciting doggerel while a crew of twenty guys with nothing in their hands wanders about the stage aimlessly. If you can get laid, let alone rich, without having to bruise your fingers or learn to do anything except speak, then taking up guitar is not so attractive. 
 
The other major impact on the guitar market is the trend for young musicians to produce their work in the box, using SONAR or one of its many easier to master competitors. If you want to do that, then it makes more sense to pick up keyboards, than fretboards. Even with that keyboard incentive, the sales of wood and wire pianos has largely tanked. Why spend the money on a device that cannot talk to your computer? 




Gibson's problem is that the "cheap" guitars are really f'n good these days.  They also have the same problem as Harley.  That being that their biggest fans are getting older and older.  Subsequent generations don't have to have "Gibson" on the headstock or "Harley-Davidson" on the fuel tank (and every other part of the bike it can possibly be printed or engraved ).
 
Same for Fender, IMO.
 

Bob  --
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#30
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