taccess
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Gibson / Phillips MORALS
To put out a statement by Gibson that Gibson/ Phillips is prepared to kill the hopes and dreams of musicians who trusted and invested in there Gibson/Phillips Brand is disgusting.
It’s out now for the world to read and for people from all walks of life to know how Gibson/ Phillips made it public that they are prepared to desert anyone any customer any friend at any cost without any emotion. In there formal statement there is nothing but me myself and I ringing out the Gibson /Phillips Brand and it’s clear they never thought about us and about the destructive cost on the cakewalk customers, no thoughts lines words in a cold statement worthy of compassion or understanding for wait for it Gibson/Phillips .
SHAME ON YOU GIBSON / PHILLIPS , how cold your statement was is how cold your future will be. Seriously
We are all going to do the same, we are going to focus on us individually but as a whole and now and then and when we go shopping on the net or in person we will put other brands before yours because you deserve to feel the way we all feel / DESERTED WORTHLESS .
RIP Gibson/Phillips
PS I will be making sure that I post every day about you formal statement everywhere in all the music corners and all the consumer products corners and I will never stop because you broke my heart and now you will pay the price ahhhhhh forever .
Bye XO
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BJN
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Re: Gibson / Phillips MORALS
2017/11/26 14:05:03
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Dont worry! Sonar has a fairly decent following and another company might get it in a firesale after the receivers have Gibson.
------------------------------------------------------- Magic: when you feel inspired to create which in turn inspires more creation. And the corollary: if magic happens inspiration might flog it to death with numerous retakes. Bart Nettle
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35mm
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Re: Gibson / Phillips MORALS
2017/11/26 14:32:56
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☄ Helpfulby pwalpwal 2017/11/26 14:53:09
This, unfortunately, is how big corporations work. They are only answerable to their shareholders. Not the customers.
Splat, Win 10 64bit and all sorts of musical odds and sods collected over the years, but still missing a lot of my old analogue stuff I sold off years ago.
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flashdharma
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Re: Gibson / Phillips MORALS
2017/11/26 16:25:20
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☄ Helpfulby aidanodr 2017/11/26 20:36:32
To be honest, when I heard Gibson had purchased Cakewalk from Roland, I felt some concern. It would appear that my misgivings were well founded. I have been a 'Gibson person' since I bought my first J-45 back in the 60s. Over my life, I have owned dozens of Gibson guitars. I have watched the quality of their instruments and customer service decline as their prices rose. My last Gibson was an ES-Les Paul. It cost more than $3500. It was made from cheap plywood and the finishing work was so bad that the company that I bought it from gave it a free, complete fret job before I took delivery. I cost me more than $500 to get it to play properly. I sent a list of the problems that I had found to Gibson, and never got any kind of response from them. Recently, I sold the Les Paul and purchased a Paul Reed Smith semi-hollow body guitar that played like a dream right out of the box and cost significantly less that the Les Paul. My recent experiences with the company, and this travesty with Sonar (They were obviously considering dumping Sonar when they offered the life-time upgrade package) means for me, that I will never buy another Gibson product. This whole thing just makes me sad.
post edited by flashdharma - 2017/11/26 17:29:35
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chuckebaby
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Re: Gibson / Phillips MORALS
2017/11/26 16:31:20
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☄ Helpfulby Mystic38 2017/11/27 16:55:38
There was a list recently published of the top 20 DAWs and Sonar was #8 beating out Pro tools.
I'm sorry but I just cant see a DAW that beats out Pro tools being sacked.
Only my personal opinion:
I think Cakewalk will be bought by someone else. Here's the kicker though, Don't expect your licenses for Sonar to be honored. You'll have to buy a new license (Seems like a great way to make money off a dedicated, loyal customer base).
Sad thing is... I would probably buy it full price because of my love for this Software.
I also share the same thoughts as others on this thread about Gibson and its lack of contact at a time when users are panicking about what they will do. Yes im grateful they have left the servers (and this forum) open for us but they would have looked a little better had they given us a little more than what we have now... which is "we don't even know".
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Keni
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Re: Gibson / Phillips MORALS
2017/11/26 17:02:17
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Yeah.... I'm foolish too!
I would gladly buy a new copy from the new owners if it was truly a continuation of the Sonar line and way of thinking.... Small price to pay for continued life!
The measly cost of the lifetime updates was less than the cost a yearly update used to cost me so I've gotten my money's worth already....
Someone... Make it so!
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THERAPSMITH
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Re: Gibson / Phillips MORALS
2017/11/26 17:06:12
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I can't grasp this being the end of Sonar...
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twelvetone
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Re: Gibson / Phillips MORALS
2017/11/26 17:33:28
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Reading the comments by ProTools concerning Cakewalk, it's clear Avid isn't having an easy time either.
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ibediggin
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Re: Gibson / Phillips MORALS
2017/11/26 17:38:31
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if you think those rich s.o.b,s care you are a fool
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Anderton
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Re: Gibson / Phillips MORALS
2017/11/26 17:49:00
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☄ Helpfulby Mystic38 2017/11/27 16:56:23
flashdharma
My recent experiences with the company, and this travesty with Sonar (They were obviously considering dumping Sonar when they offered the life-time upgrade package) means for me, that I will never buy another Gibson product.
Just to set the record straight, it was the opposite case with the lifetime updates. They were part of an overall plan that made a lot of sense and was intended to establish a more secure future. That plan was dropped by the people who ended up running Cakewalk, not by Gibson, which had always been pretty much hands-off with Cakewalk. Remember I was fired unceremoniously by Gibson so it doesn't do me any good to say this. From where I'm sitting, which admittedly did not include day-to-day involvement with Cakewalk, Gibson didn't kill Cakewalk but instead buried the body. This whole thing just makes me sad.
Me too. I think SONAR was a fantastic program, and some very passionate and dedicated people worked there.
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: Gibson / Phillips MORALS
2017/11/26 17:50:37
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That plan was dropped by the people who ended up running Cakewalk, not by Gibson So.....if it wasn't Gibson running Cakewalk, who was?
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AT
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Re: Gibson / Phillips MORALS
2017/11/26 17:54:33
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Craig already said Cakewalk. Who in Cakewalk he ain't saying, which is probably a good thing. But I'm sure everyone in the DAW-making community will know and not be too happy to have their person as their new boss.
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LJB
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Re: Gibson / Phillips MORALS
2017/11/26 18:09:50
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Busy doing intensive homework regarding a replacement DAW right now as, unfortunately, I HAVE to be sure that my next project and the one thereafter will work.. I can't be explaining to a client mid-album that there has been a slight problem...
So.. my point is, watching the tutorials, feature announcements etc of the "Big DAWS" out there, yet again I am amazed at how far ahead SPLAT actually was in so many areas. What some of these guys are now touting as 2017 innovations have been around for years and years in Sonar. ProTools just got Track freezing and Batch Freezing, for instance. PT still doesn't support 32bit and 64 VSTs natively.. And they just got batch fades as another example... Cubase is excited about more inserts.. I am actually astounded.
(Admittedly though, these DAWs also have some features that I was requesting for years on the Cakewalk forums - geeky stuff that make a pro's life a little easier such as very clever exporting options and advanced stem bouncing.)
I have a feeling these guys were all watching and often copying Cakewalk on a daily basis, with the benefit of much bigger developer muscle behind them.
I still maintain the downfall of Cakewalk was two simple things: lack of proper marketing. And lack of Mac.
Ludwig Bouwer, One Big Room Studios.
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Cakewalk with all the trimmings / Win 10Pro 64 / Intel i7-7700 / Asus Prime Z270k / 16GB DDR4 / RME HDSP9652 / RME UFX / Black Lion Audio ADA8000 / ART MPA & ART Pro Channel / Focusrite Voicemaster Pro / Aphex 107
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ampfixer
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Re: Gibson / Phillips MORALS
2017/11/26 18:14:09
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You may have noticed that there's not been a single word from the CEO of Cakewalk. That's the man that should have the answers and bears the responsibility for the failure. You can have the best product in the world, but if you can't properly promote it and sell it profitably, there's no way it will survive.
I would not buy another copy of Sonar from a new owner. I bought the software, I bought CW branded hardware from the Roland days and I'm done sending them money. I'm on a retirement income now. There's plenty of pain to go around. My heart goes out to folks who won't have jobs this Christmas, not to software users. Sorry, but there's many options in the software world.
I hope the Cakewalk folks land on their feet. If Gibson goes under we'll see a huge domino effect right across the musical instrument industry. Right now it looks like the entire industry is a house of cards. Gibson is a symptom. Just look at the debt position of the big US music chain stores.
Regards, John I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps. WIN 10 Pro X64, I7-3770k 16 gigs, ASUS Z77 pro, AMD 7950 3 gig, Steinberg UR44, A-Pro 500, Sonar Platinum, KRK Rokit 6
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Anderton
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Re: Gibson / Phillips MORALS
2017/11/26 18:17:12
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AT
Craig already said Cakewalk. Who in Cakewalk he ain't saying, which is probably a good thing. But I'm sure everyone in the DAW-making community will know and not be too happy to have their person as their new boss.
The reality is that in today's climate, any plans to secure a DAW's position in the market is going to be a gamble. It may be that Cakewalk was doomed and nothing could be done to fix it without, as LJB noted, proper marketing and a lack of Mac, which were factors as well in Cakewalk's demise. The people in charge were sincere in their desire to keep Cakewalk afloat. We just disagreed about how best to do it.
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vladasyn
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Re: Gibson / Phillips MORALS
2017/11/26 18:21:54
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If it makes anybody feel better- I had someone consulting me today about building new Windows custom computer. He was planning to use Tascam and Sonar, and I told him- it is not viable option now.
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Jari
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Re: Gibson / Phillips MORALS
2017/11/26 18:29:26
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ampfixer
You may have noticed that there's not been a single word from the CEO of Cakewalk. That's the man that should have the answers and bears the responsibility for the failure. You can have the best product in the world, but if you can't properly promote it and sell it profitably, there's no way it will survive.
I would not buy another copy of Sonar from a new owner. I bought the software, I bought CW branded hardware from the Roland days and I'm done sending them money. I'm on a retirement income now. There's plenty of pain to go around. My heart goes out to folks who won't have jobs this Christmas, not to software users. Sorry, but there's many options in the software world.
I hope the Cakewalk folks land on their feet. If Gibson goes under we'll see a huge domino effect right across the musical instrument industry. Right now it looks like the entire industry is a house of cards. Gibson is a symptom. Just look at the debt position of the big US music chain stores.
Well said, wise words, etc. *thumbs up* Just wondering how long Gibson has been struggling? Is it because guitars won't sell anymore? These are weird times...
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AT
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Re: Gibson / Phillips MORALS
2017/11/26 20:23:39
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Anderton
AT
Craig already said Cakewalk. Who in Cakewalk he ain't saying, which is probably a good thing. But I'm sure everyone in the DAW-making community will know and not be too happy to have their person as their new boss.
The reality is that in today's climate, any plans to secure a DAW's position in the market is going to be a gamble. It may be that Cakewalk was doomed and nothing could be done to fix it without, as LJB noted, proper marketing and a lack of Mac, which were factors as well in Cakewalk's demise. The people in charge were sincere in their desire to keep Cakewalk afloat. We just disagreed about how best to do it.
Yes, that came off a bit too harsh. I should have added a " ;-) " after the last sentence. I don't think someone inside Cakewalk was plotting and twirling their dastardly moustache. The entire music business pie seems to be shrinking except for bands willing to play free gigs. ;-) So it doesn't take much to push one over the edge of profitability as a studio or a band or even DAW, and you don't have to try for it to happen. In the DAW market, I'm not too sure there is still room for a big-budget, PC-only, fully-featured DAW. But there is room for several smaller boutique DAWs once you get past Abelton and probably cross-platform Cubase. I just wish SONAR not been tagged "it." And I hope someone picks it up before too long. Meanwhile, I can use SONAR while checking out the rests of the DAWs on the beach. @
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aidanodr
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Re: Gibson / Phillips MORALS
2017/11/26 21:20:53
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taccess
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Re: Gibson / Phillips MORALS
2017/11/27 13:15:36
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I just want to say that I personally am not ever leaving cakewalk it is my number one daw, I really hope someone buys this and takes it where it needs to go, it has so much that with the right direction could blow all other daws out of the way.
New owners , New management , New Coders.
Iam not sorry to say that either cakewalk needs to not be locked into a future where problems/bugs are second to anything, it is the law of nature fix what is broken or after a few more things break everything could collapse.
Also when major coding overhaul is needed to update engines or completely renew even the hardest most deepest daunting parts of sonar > then do it. There is no excuses to ignore or redirect sonar away from what must and should be done, sonar requires all coding to be fixed and be in a state of conscious perfection and for moving forward in “any” direction necessary.
Yes this requires resources be it extra coders stc but let’s face it the coding needs a major overhaul first and foremost and the community needs to be included in that overhaul and there needs to be fresh eyes and “open” minds on the overhaul and during the overhaul any staff who says no or I don’t think it can be done or is the an easier way around any of the issues regarding the overhaul of sonar should be immidately fired.
I hope Sonar survives but I want more than survival I want sonars blood to pump properly.
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PGM
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Re: Gibson / Phillips MORALS
2017/11/27 16:02:54
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Anderton
AT
Craig already said Cakewalk. Who in Cakewalk he ain't saying, which is probably a good thing. But I'm sure everyone in the DAW-making community will know and not be too happy to have their person as their new boss.
The reality is that in today's climate, any plans to secure a DAW's position in the market is going to be a gamble. It may be that Cakewalk was doomed and nothing could be done to fix it without, as LJB noted, proper marketing and a lack of Mac, which were factors as well in Cakewalk's demise. The people in charge were sincere in their desire to keep Cakewalk afloat. We just disagreed about how best to do it.
Perhaps, gibson is in the serious probles as well. I do not know, but Cakewalk can not function like foster child to any company. You have to give new customes a lot...now, and cheap...
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stxx
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Re: Gibson / Phillips MORALS
2017/11/27 16:07:16
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Coming from the software industry, a major overhaul by a new company will take years. I am sure sonar is a large complex program with many of its features coded long ago and past techniques likely intermingled with new code and new programming technologies. It will also be very difficult to successfully revamp the program without some of the original key developers. The best we could expect from a new company initially would have them first fix issues and bugs that already exist which is how most new developers learn code and how new companies tend to take things over. Only after the team has learned the stuff backwards and forwards will any serious new development take place. Frankly, I'd be more than happy for the above scenario which would tighten up the bugs and help "guarantee" Sonar to continue working in the cases of overall technology advances. As for Windows updates, I don't really care if I ever update to another version of windows as Sonar works fine and as long a a new computer can support Windows 8 (I stuck to 8.1) I wouldn't foresee any real issues in the foreseeable future. BTW, another GREAT task for a new team to learn and master the software would be to complete and successfully port Sonar to MAC. If the demand was there, that is a great way for the team to learn the ins and outs. Time will tell.
Sonar Platinum, RME UFX, UAD 2, Waves, Soundtoys, Fronteir Alphatrack, X-Touch as Contl Srfc, , Console 1, Sweetwater Creation Station Quad Core Win 8.1, Mackie 824, KRK RP5, AKG 240 MKII, Samson C-Control, Sennheiser, Blue, AKG, RODE, UA, Grace, Focusrite, Audient, Midas, ART Song Portfolio: https://soundcloud.com/allen-lind/sets/oth-short
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PGM
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Re: Gibson / Phillips MORALS
2017/11/27 16:28:30
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stxx
Coming from the software industry, a major overhaul by a new company will take years. I am sure sonar is a large complex program with many of its features coded long ago and past techniques likely intermingled with new code and new programming technologies. It will also be very difficult to successfully revamp the program without some of the original key developers. The best we could expect from a new company initially would have them first fix issues and bugs that already exist which is how most new developers learn code and how new companies tend to take things over. Only after the team has learned the stuff backwards and forwards will any serious new development take place. Frankly, I'd be more than happy for the above scenario which would tighten up the bugs and help "guarantee" Sonar to continue working in the cases of overall technology advances. As for Windows updates, I don't really care if I ever update to another version of windows as Sonar works fine and as long a a new computer can support Windows 8 (I stuck to 8.1) I wouldn't foresee any real issues in the foreseeable future. BTW, another GREAT task for a new team to learn and master the software would be to complete and successfully port Sonar to MAC. If the demand was there, that is a great way for the team to learn the ins and outs. Time will tell.
Great observations! Gibson knew that! we do not know how much Cakewalk is in the hole? also, the vision for the future. I put myself in Gibson position, if the product can not be lifted to a new level, if I do not see potential in Cakewalk product personell? I only new 2 people form Cakewalk, Brandon, and Pearlman...not impressed!!! and if Gibson is tanking, the decision was easy! I do not want Anderton, and other employees shifting blame on Gibson only...they all failed US.
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jude77
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Re: Gibson / Phillips MORALS
2017/11/27 16:40:44
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Anderton
Gibson didn't kill Cakewalk but instead buried the body. This whole thing just makes me sad.
That's the bottom line for me. Gibson didn't run CW into the ground or arbitrarily decide to stop development to irk it's customers. CW had been losing money for some (the documents supporting that are on this forum), which explains why Roland sold it to Gibson. My guess is Gibson had a time frame in which CW had to become profitable or it would be closed down. Sadly, it closed. I don't think any of us could realistically expect any company to continue a product that was consistently losing money. CW was costing more than it was producing so it was closed. Gibson didn't have any secret agenda or hidden motive in making that decision. They're a corporation. To stay in business that have to make a profit. Their decision is painful for me, but it makes perfect sense.
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Muziekschuur at home
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Re: Gibson / Phillips MORALS
2017/11/27 16:48:39
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Sometimes it are just difficult times. And you cannot put the finger on what would have saved the boat. Let's hope everybody can swim ashore and be saved. The Marketplace for digital audio workstations is changing again due to new hardware and software options. It is what it is. I do hope a feniks will arize.
Cakewalk Sonar Platinum Windows 7 32bit & 64bit (dualboot) Gigabyte mobo Intel dual quad 9650 & 4GB Ram RME DIGI9636 & Tascam DM24. M-audio Rbus & SI-24 Alesis Pro active 5.1 & Radford 90 transmissionline monitors. Roland RD-150 piano Edirol UM-880 & alesis fireport. Remote recording Alesis HD-24 & Phonic MRS 1-20. P.A. D&R Dayner 29-8-2 & behringer MX8000 (& racks) Rackpc Sonar Platinum with win10 AMD X6 1055T, 16GB Ram Dell inspiron 17R 6gb ram W10 two SSD's Sonar Plat.
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denverdrummer
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Re: Gibson / Phillips MORALS
2017/11/27 18:32:11
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There are many bad things I could say about Gibson, but Cakewalk was insolvent when Roland sold them off, so this was a long standing problem. Cakewalk died due to poor market penetration. The fact that PreSonus was able to come out of nowhere and consume a big chunk of their market share in only a few short years is something that they have never recovered from.
With the death of the V-studio products, Cakewalk never really had a good hardware component to work with. GC sold tons of PreSonus interfaces and all with Studio One, and Cakewalk did not have an answer.
The number of YouTube channels helping folks with Cubase or Studio One or Ableton or even ProTools far outnumbered anything presented with Sonar.
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