ronboy
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Going No Further With Sonar!
Well, ladies and gentlemen this is the end of the line for me and Sonar. I'll stop at Sonar 8.5 but I'll continue to use it on some projects but I going back to Cubase and get Cubase 6! While Sonar is great in many ways I find that some midi functions just don't quite work correctly so my workflow is slowed way down and I doubt that they are fixed in the new Sonar X1(another learning curve that I don't want to deal with)! Also, I'm deeply disappointed in Sonar's Score/Staff editor as some other Sonar user's are! One of my arrangements had to be done in Cubase 4 then imported to Sonar for mixing and some editing (Sonar is on my laptop and it's really good at mixing music) because I could do it in the score editor and not in Sonar's staff editor. It's obvious that Cakewalk caters mostly to musician's that read very little music! Sonar is great at many things but these two things are the most important to me than all the bells a whistles! I'm also a Logic user too and it's has always had stong midi editing that actually works!
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bitflipper
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Re:Going No Further With Sonar!
2011/04/08 20:35:40
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Curious. You may be right about the notation, I wouldn't know.
But I am unaware of any MIDI functions that don't work correctly. The MIDI spec isn't exactly rocket science and hasn't changed in years. Cakewalk started out as a MIDI sequencer over 20 years ago. You'd think by now they'd have had plenty of time to get the MIDI stuff sorted out.
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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daveny5
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Re:Going No Further With Sonar!
2011/04/08 21:45:53
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Sonar was never intended to be a notation program. There are many programs that do notation better than Sonar, but they do not have nearly the recording and editing functions that Sonar has. Cakewalk has decided that most Sonar users don't care about notation. They did have a notation add-on product for Sonar 8 Elite, but it was dropped fairly quickly, probably because it didn't sell very well.
Dave Computer: Intel i7, ASROCK H170M, 16GB/5TB+, Windows 10 Pro 64-bit, Sonar Platinum, TASCAM US-16x08, Cakewalk UM-3G MIDI I/F Instruments: SL-880 Keyboard controller, Korg 05R/W, Korg N1R, KORG Wavestation EX Axes: Fender Stratocaster, Line6 Variax 300, Ovation Acoustic, Takamine Nylon Acoustic, Behringer GX212 amp, Shure SM-58 mic, Rode NT1 condenser mic. Outboard: Mackie 1402-VLZ mixer, TC Helicon VoiceLive 2, Digitech Vocalist WS EX, PODXTLive, various stompboxes and stuff. Controllers: Korg nanoKONTROL, Wacom Bamboo Touchpad
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John6528
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Re:Going No Further With Sonar!
2011/04/09 11:08:50
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Tend to agree. I've been with it since dos cakewalk but I work almost entirely with staff view and it is pretty ponderous now. Haven't looked at anything else but often dream of switching to an apple system of some sort.
John
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Guitarman1
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Re:Going No Further With Sonar!
2011/04/09 12:20:01
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"quote"It's obvious that Cakewalk caters mostly to musician's that read very little music!
hmmm... I read music, and I use Sonar. They only time I use the staff view is to correct misplayed notes, or if I am lazy to notate it out.
As far as midi, I am not a big midi user, but as Bit said, I think Sonar is the leader in that catagory.
It may not have all the features that you desire, but my honest opinion, it is the best out there, and yes I have used other software, but came back to cakewalk, as I felt it was the best on the market.
Pentium 4, Vista Premium 64 bit Dual Quad 8 gigs of ram Delta 44 Sonar Producer 8.5.3 If only the good die young, then I should make it thru this economic crisis
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Chappel
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Re:Going No Further With Sonar!
2011/04/09 12:30:53
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Specifically, what Midi editing can't you do in Sonar? I've never liked the Staff view but I've been using the Piano Roll View for years and while it's no Bars and Pipes it still gets the job done. I can read music and know enough theory to throw together anything I can think of relatively quickly.
post edited by Chappel - 2011/04/10 03:34:18
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daveny5
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Re:Going No Further With Sonar!
2011/04/09 12:32:31
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Tend to agree. I've been with it since dos cakewalk but I work almost entirely with staff view and it is pretty ponderous now. Well, that's your fault. If you've been using it for so long, you know printed notation is not its strong suit. If printed notation is what you need, then by all means go get Finale, Sibelius, or Notion. I have Finale PrintMusic for when I want to enter and print notation. Then I can export the piece from Finale to a MID file and use it in Sonar as the basis for a recording.
Dave Computer: Intel i7, ASROCK H170M, 16GB/5TB+, Windows 10 Pro 64-bit, Sonar Platinum, TASCAM US-16x08, Cakewalk UM-3G MIDI I/F Instruments: SL-880 Keyboard controller, Korg 05R/W, Korg N1R, KORG Wavestation EX Axes: Fender Stratocaster, Line6 Variax 300, Ovation Acoustic, Takamine Nylon Acoustic, Behringer GX212 amp, Shure SM-58 mic, Rode NT1 condenser mic. Outboard: Mackie 1402-VLZ mixer, TC Helicon VoiceLive 2, Digitech Vocalist WS EX, PODXTLive, various stompboxes and stuff. Controllers: Korg nanoKONTROL, Wacom Bamboo Touchpad
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John6528
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Re:Going No Further With Sonar!
2011/04/09 15:36:23
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Chappel
Specifically, what Midi editing can't you do in Sonar?
I would like to be able to enter cc's in staff view, particularly crescendos and decrescendos. Even better able to select multiple staffs and enter cc's for them. I do it now with section group but it's cumbersome, seems old fashioned. Then I forget to un-group and everything gets all screwed up. Just used to working with notes and staff I guess John
Sonar 8.5 64, Win 7 64 Asrock X58 Extreme3, I7-950, 12G ram OCZ Vertx3 120, Vertex2 90, WDM 1T Focusrite Saffire Yamaha P-70 Keyboard M-Audio Midisport Uno Miroslav Philharmonik , Nanosynth
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Stone House Studios
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Re:Going No Further With Sonar!
2011/04/09 15:42:42
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I would like to be able to enter cc's in staff view, particularly crescendos and decrescendos. I'm sure there's a written rule on this - but aren't these marks of adjustment that don't have specifics? Curious, that's all. Brian
Core i7-6700@3.40Ghz Windows 10x64 16 GB RAM Sonar Platinum/Studio One PreSonus Studio 192
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Chappel
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Re:Going No Further With Sonar!
2011/04/09 19:20:31
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John6528
Chappel
Specifically, what Midi editing can't you do in Sonar?
I would like to be able to enter cc's in staff view, particularly crescendos and decrescendos. Even better able to select multiple staffs and enter cc's for them. I do it now with section group but it's cumbersome, seems old fashioned. Then I forget to un-group and everything gets all screwed up.
Just used to working with notes and staff I guess
John
I see what you mean about doing that in Staff View. I never really thought about it since I use the PRV and it is designed to do that sort of thing. Some people seem to hate it but, really, if more people would get used to using the PRV, in addition to the Staff View, there would be far fewer complaints about Sonar's Midi implementation.
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Kev999
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Re:Going No Further With Sonar!
2011/04/09 19:44:02
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Chappel
I see what you mean about doing that in Staff View. I never really thought about it since I use the PRV and it is designed to do that sort of thing. Some people seem to hate it but, really, if more people would get used to using the PRV, in addition to the Staff View, there would be far fewer complaints about Sonar's Midi implementation.
PVR is much easier than Staff View for detailed editing. However, I find that SV is sometimes preferable in situations where I want to look at several instruments that are all overlapping in the same octave, as it displays each instrument on a separate stave.
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Chappel
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Re:Going No Further With Sonar!
2011/04/09 20:02:10
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Kev999
PVR is much easier than Staff View for detailed editing. However, I find that SV is sometimes preferable in situations where I want to look at several instruments that are all overlapping in the same octave, as it displays each instrument on a separate stave.
Sure... both methods have their strengths and weaknesses. That's why I think more people should be comfortable using both methods. They are both tools, and like any tool, there is a time to use one and a time to use another.
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Kev999
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Re:Going No Further With Sonar!
2011/04/10 00:18:29
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Chappel
Kev999
PVR is much easier than Staff View for detailed editing. However, I find that SV is sometimes preferable in situations where I want to look at several instruments that are all overlapping in the same octave, as it displays each instrument on a separate stave.
Sure... both methods have their strengths and weaknesses. That's why I think more people should be comfortable using both methods. They are both tools, and like any tool, there is a time to use one and a time to use another.
Agreed. It doesn't need to be used a lot to be a valuable tool. It's a pity that the SV has been neglected by Cakewalk. The usual excuse is that most users don't bother with it. But if it was upgraded a bit, maybe more people would start using it. I believe that this subject has already been discussed at length many times.
SonarPlatinum∞(22.11.0.111)|Mixbus32C(4.3.19)|DigitalPerformer(9.5.1)|Reaper(5.77)FractalDesign:DefineR5|i7-6850k@4.1GHz|16GB@2666MHz-DDR4|MSI:GamingProCarbonX99a|Matrox:M9148(x2)|UAD2solo(6.5.2)|W7Ult-x64-SP1
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John6528
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Re:Going No Further With Sonar!
2011/04/10 10:36:47
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Chappel
John6528
Chappel
Specifically, what Midi editing can't you do in Sonar?
I would like to be able to enter cc's in staff view, particularly crescendos and decrescendos. Even better able to select multiple staffs and enter cc's for them. I do it now with section group but it's cumbersome, seems old fashioned. Then I forget to un-group and everything gets all screwed up.
Just used to working with notes and staff I guess
John
I see what you mean about doing that in Staff View. I never really thought about it since I use the PRV and it is designed to do that sort of thing. Some people seem to hate it but, really, if more people would get used to using the PRV, in addition to the Staff View, there would be far fewer complaints about Sonar's Midi implementation.
PRV is great for entering for one track. For multiple tracks it doesn't work at all, at least as far as I can see. Say you want to decrease the volume of strings and piano out of a small orchestra. It's a major, time consuming undertaking in Sonar though it can be done. I'd also like to see a much easier copy/paste of cc's. That would make things a little easier. John
Sonar 8.5 64, Win 7 64 Asrock X58 Extreme3, I7-950, 12G ram OCZ Vertx3 120, Vertex2 90, WDM 1T Focusrite Saffire Yamaha P-70 Keyboard M-Audio Midisport Uno Miroslav Philharmonik , Nanosynth
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Chappel
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Re:Going No Further With Sonar!
2011/04/10 11:51:46
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John6528
PRV is great for entering for one track. For multiple tracks it doesn't work at all, at least as far as I can see. Say you want to decrease the volume of strings and piano out of a small orchestra. It's a major, time consuming undertaking in Sonar though it can be done.
I'd also like to see a much easier copy/paste of cc's. That would make things a little easier.
John
I don't often work with multiple tracks in the PRV but I have done it and it seems to work pretty good for me. When you open multiple tracks in the PRV they show up as different colors. Just click a note and that puts the focus on just the notes from that track. You can use the controller pane to edit velocity and controllers for just that track and it doesn't affect the notes on the other tracks. If you want to make global changes to a track like transpose or scale velocity that's best done in the track view. But if you just want to draw velocity and controller changes in the PRV it's very easy, even working with multiple tracks open in the PRV. At least that's been my experience. And you can always use the Pick Tracks tool to view and edit any track from within the PRV.
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