Helpful ReplyGoing back to Windows 7 from Win 10. Pros/cons?

Author
Billy86
Max Output Level: -83 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 362
  • Joined: 2015/03/06 16:03:26
  • Location: Seattle
  • Status: offline
2017/12/07 14:39:42 (permalink)

Going back to Windows 7 from Win 10. Pros/cons?

Forced updates are maddening. I'm thinking of doing a fresh reinstall Win 7 64bit on a planned new SSD.

Would love to hear pros and cons from those who are savvy about such things in the Sonar universe.

Thanks. Billy

Windows 10 x64 on a Dell/Intel i5, 500 Gig SSD, 32 gig RAM, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4, Sonar Professional, Melodyne 4 Assistant, Kurzweil SP-76 stage piano, Baldwin RP 100 digital upright, Novation Impulse 25, Breedlove Pursuit Concert Acous/Elec, Fender American Standard Tele, Fender G-DEC 30 modeling amp, Sigma DM-5 Acoustic, Ovation MCS148 Celebrity Acous/Elec. Mandolin, Roland V-Drums TD-11KV, AKG P220, Yamaha MG82CX mixer, KRK Rokit 6 Powered Monitors, PreSonus FaderPort
#1
ooblecaboodle
Max Output Level: -54 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 2102
  • Joined: 2004/05/01 21:52:56
  • Location: North Wales
  • Status: offline
Re: Going back to Windows 7 from Win 10. Pros/cons? 2017/12/07 14:49:29 (permalink)
Well for one thing, you're going to an OS that is now 8 years old, and all the security and compatability issues that entails. Mainstream support for it ended in 2015.
I have seen occasional issues with newer drivers not working in 7 - but these are rare.
#2
TheSteven
Max Output Level: -55 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 2037
  • Joined: 2005/03/05 01:17:06
  • Location: Southern California
  • Status: offline
Re: Going back to Windows 7 from Win 10. Pros/cons? 2017/12/07 15:18:37 (permalink)
Big one - Microsoft has sabotaged new Windows 7 installs - it's possible that this has been fixed but doubt it.
The reinstall that I did in May is seriously messed up because one of the later updates installs out of sequence then prevents other updates from installing.  One side effect is that I cannot install any of the new .Net updates or security patches.  I can't reinstall the older .Net versions (I tried) - if it wasn't for Windows Restore the PC I am currently using would be unusable.  Unfortunately I can't take the system back to before that funky update - sorry I don't have the patch name/number.
Microsoft's recommended fix is to update to Windows 10.
My recommendations are:
  • Set your Restore cache size to a large than normal size - at least till PC is current so you can rewind if you have issues.
  • Install all the Windows updates before installing any other software
  • Verify that critical updates, security fixes etc have installed (check installed updates for failures)
Once you have verified that your new Windows 7 is upto date - create a backup image, then install your critical software, create another backup.
 
I've never had a new Windows install hose itself before so when I didn't see errors I assumed everything was OK.
I didn't get errors till months later (this fall if i recall correctly) and by that time I had invested way too much in installing and configuring my system and apps.
Now I have a system that is barely stable and will eventually fail.
I am currently setting up another PC, one that is Windows 10 compatible.
 

"Time is a great teacher, but unfortunately it kills all its pupils" Loius-Hector Berlioz

www.AgitatedState.com MenuMagic - plug-in management powertools!
My Tunes
#3
stratman70
Max Output Level: -45 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 3044
  • Joined: 2006/09/12 20:34:12
  • Location: Earth
  • Status: offline
Re: Going back to Windows 7 from Win 10. Pros/cons? 2017/12/07 15:23:56 (permalink)
I kind of agree with the first reply you received.. That being said..............I had win 10 installed for a while. Went back after a month or so.
I still run Win 8.1x64 on my daw. I did put win 10 on my laptop, just to have. Win 98.1x64 is still supported.
I know your asking about win 7, just thought you would like to know. I had 7 for a long time I like it.
But Win 8.1x64 is newer, still gets regular updates, although I only install the security updates at this time.
 
Very, very stable with Sonar Plat.
I don't need the latest and greatest. I need what works and is stable.
I am guessing you already own Win 7. 

 
 
#4
TheSteven
Max Output Level: -55 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 2037
  • Joined: 2005/03/05 01:17:06
  • Location: Southern California
  • Status: offline
Re: Going back to Windows 7 from Win 10. Pros/cons? 2017/12/07 15:51:16 (permalink)
Other than the issue that I mentioned previously I agree that Window7 is a stable platform.

"Time is a great teacher, but unfortunately it kills all its pupils" Loius-Hector Berlioz

www.AgitatedState.com MenuMagic - plug-in management powertools!
My Tunes
#5
mettelus
Max Output Level: -22 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 5321
  • Joined: 2005/08/05 03:19:25
  • Location: Maryland, USA
  • Status: offline
Re: Going back to Windows 7 from Win 10. Pros/cons? 2017/12/07 16:15:23 (permalink)
I have left my DAW on Win7 for the reason of stability, and not had issues with it. I intend to leave it this way for the very reason of not buying into the "forced updates." Properly imaged, Win7 can be restored quickly and doesn't screw up authorizations of software (e.g., I do not need to continually reauthorize XLN stuff, etc.).
 
That said, my work computer I had updated to Win10 (18 months ago), and it began to act flaky just a few weeks ago; so I did a system restore (HP laptop), which put it back to the default Win7 shipping configuration (about the only thing I am happy for HP's bloatware). Win 7 authorized without issue which sort of surprised me since I was under the assumption that the authorization was superseded by the Win10 installation (was still in the free window when installed, so HP may have saved the day). Some Win7 updates are now "in bulk" so even though they are sequential, some are roll-ups which include several patch points versus a zillion installation files. It took roughly 4 hours to bring the machine back up online, get updates, and strip the HP crap from it.
 
After talking to one of the IT folks last year, I discovered that 5 of the security features in Win7 Ultimate were removed from Win10 (a couple via the actual Win10 updates themselves), and are only available in the Win10 Enterprise version (or Academic version, ironically). Three of those I use, so if/when I ever go to Win10 on my home machine it will be the Academic version, but I have zero intention of doing so. As stated above, Win7 is a very stable and (more importantly) static OS.
 
Win7 will officially lose "extended" support on 14 JAN 2020, so software development will continue probably to support Win7 at least until that date (i.e., new software builds).

ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero (Wi-Fi AC), i7-8700k, 16GB RAM, GTX-1070Ti, Win 10 Pro, Saffire PRO 24 DSP, A-300 PRO, plus numerous gadgets and gizmos that make or manipulate sound in some way.
#6
fireberd
Max Output Level: -38 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 3704
  • Joined: 2008/02/25 14:14:28
  • Location: Inverness, FL
  • Status: offline
Re: Going back to Windows 7 from Win 10. Pros/cons? 2017/12/07 16:44:28 (permalink)
I'm on the other end.  I'm a computer tech and everything I have works, without problems, on Win 10.  I had a dual boot system for a while with Win 7 and Win 10.  As it turned out I rarely used Win 7 so when I built my new system a year ago I just installed Win 10.  
 
I did have an issue with a Roland/Edirol keyboard and Win 10 but I rarely used the keyboard and sold it to a person that was still on older OS that Roland supported. 

"GCSG Productions"
Franklin D-10 Pedal Steel Guitar (primary instrument). Nashville Telecaster, Bass, etc. 
ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Hero M/B, i7 6700K CPU, 16GB Ram, SSD and conventional hard drives, Win 10 Pro and Win 10 Pro Insider Pre-Release
Sonar Platinum/CbB. MOTU 896MK3 Hybrid, Tranzport, X-Touch, JBL LSR308 Monitors,  
Ozone 5,  Studio One 4.1
ISRC Registered
Member of Nashville based R.O.P.E. Assn.
#7
JonD
Max Output Level: -39 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 3617
  • Joined: 2003/12/09 11:09:10
  • Location: East of Santa Monica
  • Status: offline
Re: Going back to Windows 7 from Win 10. Pros/cons? 2017/12/07 16:52:51 (permalink)
I can't speak to Win 10.  I bought a copy but haven't used it as Win 8.1 has been rock-solid on both of my systems.
 
... So that would be my recommendation if you are leery of Win 10 or it's been problematic for you.... Go with Win 8.1.
 
Not sure why you would choose Win 7 over the obvious choice of a newer O.S.  Win 8.0, I understand, was a dog for many, but 8.1 fixed all of the issues and added many optimizations.

SonarPlat/CWbBL, Win 10 Pro, i7 2600K, Asus P8Z68 Deluxe, 16GB DDR3, Radeon HD5450, TC Electronic Impact Twin, Kawai MP11 Piano, Event ALP Monitors, Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro, Too Many Plugins, My lucky hat.
#8
abacab
Max Output Level: -30.5 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 4464
  • Joined: 2014/12/31 19:34:07
  • Status: offline
Re: Going back to Windows 7 from Win 10. Pros/cons? 2017/12/07 17:08:43 (permalink)
Billy86
Forced updates are maddening. I'm thinking of doing a fresh reinstall Win 7 64bit on a planned new SSD.

Would love to hear pros and cons from those who are savvy about such things in the Sonar universe.

Thanks. Billy



Updates can be disabled. 
 
Going back to Windows 8.1 might be an option, but Windows 7 is only going to have extended support for 2 more years.  At least you will get 5 years of support out of Win 8.1.
 
Also, if you upgraded your Windows 7 license with the free Win 10 upgrade, you may need to buy a new license to re-activate Win 7.

DAW: CbB; Sonar Platinum, and others ... 
#9
Billy86
Max Output Level: -83 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 362
  • Joined: 2015/03/06 16:03:26
  • Location: Seattle
  • Status: offline
Re: Going back to Windows 7 from Win 10. Pros/cons? 2017/12/07 18:39:29 (permalink)
Thanks everyone for weighing in.
 
Here's my situation: I have a 2012 Dell XPS 8500 that came with Win 7. When free Win 10 upgrade came out, Microsoft did one of their scans and said my machine was ready to go with the update.
 
Dell, however, said the 8500 wasn't supported for the Win 10 update. I decided to go for it because it was time time buy a new computer for work anyway, and I would downstream this one to be my DAW. Plus, I could roll back to Win 7 if I needed. Well, so far (over a year), everything's been working fine in Win 10, except for the occasional PITA things MS pushes on Win 10 users (read: forced updates and its headaches).
 
However, I'm afraid to do Dell system updates (BIOS, chipset, drivers, etc.) because as far as Dell is concerned this is a unit with Win 7 on it, not Win 10, and the whole thing could end up in a nasty knot. Guess, I'd have to wipe everything and start over anyway...
I have a USB that will set everything back to factory fresh. Got it from Dell. I also believe Windows has extended support for Win 7 until 2020. https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/13853/windows-lifecycle-fact-sheet

In planning for a new SSD for this unit, it sounds from others as if a fresh OS install is the best, cleanest, most ideal route. I can buy a copy of Win 10 to do the fresh install onto the SSD, or I can rollback to factory fresh, Win 7, as it was in 2012 when Dell shipped it. I'd install that on the SSD, along with Sonar and related.
 
Not sure what route to take, if I do a fresh install. The other option is to use the Samsung migration tool and move everything to the new Samsung EVO 850 SSD, although as someone said earlier, then you move all your old system ghosts with it.
 
Hmmm...

Windows 10 x64 on a Dell/Intel i5, 500 Gig SSD, 32 gig RAM, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4, Sonar Professional, Melodyne 4 Assistant, Kurzweil SP-76 stage piano, Baldwin RP 100 digital upright, Novation Impulse 25, Breedlove Pursuit Concert Acous/Elec, Fender American Standard Tele, Fender G-DEC 30 modeling amp, Sigma DM-5 Acoustic, Ovation MCS148 Celebrity Acous/Elec. Mandolin, Roland V-Drums TD-11KV, AKG P220, Yamaha MG82CX mixer, KRK Rokit 6 Powered Monitors, PreSonus FaderPort
#10
Cactus Music
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 8424
  • Joined: 2004/02/09 21:34:04
  • Status: offline
Re: Going back to Windows 7 from Win 10. Pros/cons? 2017/12/07 19:44:57 (permalink)
I had the same sort of situation with a HP desktop my in laws gave me. They never used it and it's an i7 beast. It came with W7 home but I wanted to install an SSD drive as the machine was a mess from to many grandchildren messing about. 
 
HP like Dell offers you a W7 install CD but wanted $50? I have a crack of W7 and so I desided to go that route as after all, the machine had a paid for licence but was locked to the old HD partition. No guilt. 
But as said above the W7 initial install was easy,,, but- it took days and and days to update. It became stupid. And I had driver issues and the USB 3 ports and the SD card reader etc did not have any. 
 
So I gave up and desided I would just buy W10 and be done with it. This was the Fall after the free deadline. But right on the MS web site they tell you how to get W10 for free and so I did that. So any how 
You can try the W7 install and because you do have the proper install software you might not have the trouble I had with the drivers. 
But I was going to tell you if you have to buy an new OS I agree that W 8.1 is what I would choose. 
You can still get W10 for free. looks like it's finally going to expire year end. 
 
https://www.cnet.com/how-to/microsoft-windows-10-free-upgrade-offer-assistive-features/
 
 
 
 

Johnny V  
Cakelab  
Focusrite 6i61st - Tascam us1641. 
3 Desktops and 3 Laptops W7 and W10
 http://www.cactusmusic.ca/
 
 
#11
fireberd
Max Output Level: -38 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 3704
  • Joined: 2008/02/25 14:14:28
  • Location: Inverness, FL
  • Status: offline
Re: Going back to Windows 7 from Win 10. Pros/cons? 2017/12/07 19:52:52 (permalink)
Billy86, you don't need to buy another Win 10 to do a clean install.  You already "own" Win 10 and if you sign in to Win 10 with a Microsoft Account (e.g. I have a Hotmail account and use that) then you have "digital entitlement".  All you need to do is download Win 10 and create a bootable media -DVD or a USB Flash Drive.
 
You don't need any Dell drivers either, Windows is providing the latest driver versions.
 
Here is the instructions from the www.tenforums.com  Tutorials (use Option 1 Media Creation Tool).
https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/9230-download-windows-10-iso-file.html
 

"GCSG Productions"
Franklin D-10 Pedal Steel Guitar (primary instrument). Nashville Telecaster, Bass, etc. 
ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Hero M/B, i7 6700K CPU, 16GB Ram, SSD and conventional hard drives, Win 10 Pro and Win 10 Pro Insider Pre-Release
Sonar Platinum/CbB. MOTU 896MK3 Hybrid, Tranzport, X-Touch, JBL LSR308 Monitors,  
Ozone 5,  Studio One 4.1
ISRC Registered
Member of Nashville based R.O.P.E. Assn.
#12
Cactus Music
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 8424
  • Joined: 2004/02/09 21:34:04
  • Status: offline
Re: Going back to Windows 7 from Win 10. Pros/cons? 2017/12/07 23:39:48 (permalink)
You don't need any Dell drivers either, Windows is providing the latest driver versions.  
 
Are you sure of that Jack? I found that this was a huge issue for 2 of my computers where there ended up being drivers missing or not up to snuff. On one machine the video driver W10 installed was so basic I couldn't even change screen resolution. Luckily I still had the CD.  My wifes laptop she lost her Card reader, camera and mike and nothing can fix that so she can't use it for skype anymore.  
It's from my observation one thing W10 does a pour job of. And many have reported W10 updates overwritting proper drivers with crappy generiic drivers. 
 
 
 


Johnny V  
Cakelab  
Focusrite 6i61st - Tascam us1641. 
3 Desktops and 3 Laptops W7 and W10
 http://www.cactusmusic.ca/
 
 
#13
Billy86
Max Output Level: -83 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 362
  • Joined: 2015/03/06 16:03:26
  • Location: Seattle
  • Status: offline
Re: Going back to Windows 7 from Win 10. Pros/cons? 2017/12/08 02:32:06 (permalink)
Okay, all. Like I said: Hmmm.... nothing's easy.

Windows 10 x64 on a Dell/Intel i5, 500 Gig SSD, 32 gig RAM, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4, Sonar Professional, Melodyne 4 Assistant, Kurzweil SP-76 stage piano, Baldwin RP 100 digital upright, Novation Impulse 25, Breedlove Pursuit Concert Acous/Elec, Fender American Standard Tele, Fender G-DEC 30 modeling amp, Sigma DM-5 Acoustic, Ovation MCS148 Celebrity Acous/Elec. Mandolin, Roland V-Drums TD-11KV, AKG P220, Yamaha MG82CX mixer, KRK Rokit 6 Powered Monitors, PreSonus FaderPort
#14
abacab
Max Output Level: -30.5 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 4464
  • Joined: 2014/12/31 19:34:07
  • Status: offline
Re: Going back to Windows 7 from Win 10. Pros/cons? 2017/12/08 04:02:50 (permalink)
If you took the free upgrade From Windows 7 to Windows 10 you have probably burned that Win 7 license, in exchange for the upgrade.  There was an initial 30 day rollback period, but that has long since expired.  You probably cannot re-activate the Win 7 license that came with that PC.
 
No need to buy a fresh copy of Win 10 to test it out!  Windows 10 has relaxed the grace period that you have after installing a fresh copy.  You now have a lifetime grace period!  You will only see a nag screen and have limited customization options, else the Windows is fully functional!  https://www.windowscentral.com/you-do-not-need-activate-windows-10
 
Get Win 10 here >> https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10

DAW: CbB; Sonar Platinum, and others ... 
#15
Ruben
Max Output Level: -81 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 472
  • Joined: 2003/11/06 08:12:42
  • Location: Where they play the West Coast sound
  • Status: offline
Re: Going back to Windows 7 from Win 10. Pros/cons? 2017/12/08 05:25:07 (permalink)
Billy86 I can buy a copy of Win 10 to do the fresh install onto the SSD, or I can rollback to factory fresh, Win 7, as it was in 2012 when Dell shipped it. I'd install that on the SSD, along with Sonar and related.
 
Not sure what route to take, if I do a fresh install. 

If you're prepared to purchase Windows and create a new install, why not buy Windows 8.1 instead? It's easier to deal with and configure than Win 10, newer than Win 7, and runs very nicely as a DAW OS - I'm using it for my workstation. There are reputable dealers on eBay and elsewhere who will sell you a new Win 8/8.1 product key that is affordable. And then no more Win 10 headaches.  
 

  
#16
fireberd
Max Output Level: -38 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 3704
  • Joined: 2008/02/25 14:14:28
  • Location: Inverness, FL
  • Status: offline
Re: Going back to Windows 7 from Win 10. Pros/cons? 2017/12/08 11:33:06 (permalink)
I've installed/reinstalled Win 10 on several computers, including my DAW desktop and a Lenovo and a Dell laptop.  Everytime, Windows (as long as you are connected to the internet) installed all the needed device drivers.
 
There are probably "exceptions" but as long as the hardware is Win 10 compatible most get everything needed installed.
 
With older OS', such as Win 7 or even Win 8 that was not the case. As much as many hate Win 10, its been "painless" for me.
 
 

"GCSG Productions"
Franklin D-10 Pedal Steel Guitar (primary instrument). Nashville Telecaster, Bass, etc. 
ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Hero M/B, i7 6700K CPU, 16GB Ram, SSD and conventional hard drives, Win 10 Pro and Win 10 Pro Insider Pre-Release
Sonar Platinum/CbB. MOTU 896MK3 Hybrid, Tranzport, X-Touch, JBL LSR308 Monitors,  
Ozone 5,  Studio One 4.1
ISRC Registered
Member of Nashville based R.O.P.E. Assn.
#17
tlw
Max Output Level: -49.5 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 2567
  • Joined: 2008/10/11 22:06:32
  • Location: West Midlands, UK
  • Status: offline
Re: Going back to Windows 7 from Win 10. Pros/cons? 2017/12/08 15:29:27 (permalink)
I tried putting Win10 on a Mac a few months ago. The idea being a dual-boot system so I could run a few Windows games and a few small Windows only applications.

So I downloaded the relevant Apple Boot Camp drivers for Win 10, installed it and ran Windows update. After it had finished and rebooted I found it had replaced some of the Apple drivers, including the video one, with generic Windows drivers.

So off came Win10 and on went Win7. End of problems.

Sonar Platinum 64bit, Windows 8.1 Pro 64bit, I7 3770K Ivybridge, 16GB Ram, Gigabyte Z77-D3H m/board,
ATI 7750 graphics+ 1GB RAM, 2xIntel 520 series 220GB SSDs, 1 TB Samsung F3 + 1 TB WD HDDs, Seasonic fanless 460W psu, RME Fireface UFX, Focusrite Octopre.
Assorted real synths, guitars, mandolins, diatonic accordions, percussion, fx and other stuff.
#18
fireberd
Max Output Level: -38 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 3704
  • Joined: 2008/02/25 14:14:28
  • Location: Inverness, FL
  • Status: offline
Re: Going back to Windows 7 from Win 10. Pros/cons? 2017/12/08 15:44:21 (permalink)
Some drivers are ONLY Windows/Microsoft drivers.  e.g. drivers for optical drives (CD/DVD) are only the default built in Windows drivers.  Hard drives the same way.  Some USB drivers are only the Windows/Microsoft drivers.  If there is no hardware sound driver available and its still compatible with Win 10 then the generic, basic function, High Definition Audio driver will be installed.

"GCSG Productions"
Franklin D-10 Pedal Steel Guitar (primary instrument). Nashville Telecaster, Bass, etc. 
ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Hero M/B, i7 6700K CPU, 16GB Ram, SSD and conventional hard drives, Win 10 Pro and Win 10 Pro Insider Pre-Release
Sonar Platinum/CbB. MOTU 896MK3 Hybrid, Tranzport, X-Touch, JBL LSR308 Monitors,  
Ozone 5,  Studio One 4.1
ISRC Registered
Member of Nashville based R.O.P.E. Assn.
#19
Jim Roseberry
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 9871
  • Joined: 2004/03/23 11:34:51
  • Location: Ohio
  • Status: offline
Re: Going back to Windows 7 from Win 10. Pros/cons? 2017/12/08 16:12:50 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby abacab 2017/12/08 17:01:36
Use Win10 Pro.
There are registry tweaks that completely shut down all automatic updates.
You can even turn off notifications...
The Pro version also has the Group Policy Editor... which allows turning off Cortana, OneDrive, etc... without going into the registry.
 
Win10 is a fine DAW platform.
Just need to take the above steps... and you're good-to-go.

Best Regards,

Jim Roseberry
jim@studiocat.com
www.studiocat.com
#20
abacab
Max Output Level: -30.5 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 4464
  • Joined: 2014/12/31 19:34:07
  • Status: offline
Re: Going back to Windows 7 from Win 10. Pros/cons? 2017/12/08 17:12:24 (permalink)
Jim Roseberry
Use Win10 Pro.
There are registry tweaks that completely shut down all automatic updates.
You can even turn off notifications...
The Pro version also has the Group Policy Editor... which allows turning off Cortana, OneDrive, etc... without going into the registry.
 
Win10 is a fine DAW platform.
Just need to take the above steps... and you're good-to-go.




Win 10 Pro running smooth here!  Never gets updates unless I request them. 
 
My favorite policy settings ... 
 

 

 

DAW: CbB; Sonar Platinum, and others ... 
#21
Jump to:
© 2024 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1