Helpful ReplyGoing through a list of job applicants....sheesh

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sharke
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2016/07/24 20:21:31 (permalink)

Going through a list of job applicants....sheesh

Decided to post my latest job opening on Indeed.com. It's pretty amazing - I posted an ad at 1:30am and when I got up at 8am there were about 100 applications waiting for me. But so far I've had nothing but the usual parade of useless Millennial time wasters: "I won't be available on Tuesday or Thursday afternoons, is that a problem? (it says mon-fri on the job posting)"...."I can start as soon as you like! Oh just one last thing...I'm moving to Florida at the end of September (it says at least 9 months to a year commitment in the ad)"...and so on. Arranged 4 interviews, 2 of them didn't show up and the other two turned out to have criminal records (possession of a knife/got into a fist fight with the mother of my child).
 
But what amazes me most of all is how many people don't keep their social media profiles private. The first thing I do when thinking about calling a candidate is look them up on Facebook. It's amazing how many people exhibit a professional butter wouldn't melt persona in their applications, then you look them up on FB and there they are, shirtless, covered in gang tattoos up to the neck and throwing gang signs. I know it's the same person from their education/current job info in their profile. At what point do you give up telling these kids that their public social media content is not doing them any favors in the job market? 

James
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craigb
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Re: Going through a list of job applicants....sheesh 2016/07/24 20:41:06 (permalink)
And, out here, I'd be the perfect employee (albeit overqualified for much of what I'm currently applying for), but it's next to impossible to even get an interview!  Out of probably 100+ applications, I've only had four contacts and two interviews (which, I apparently nailed according to the person I interviewed with, but then I get some form email from their HR department saying sorry - even the interviewers were puzzled).  Age discrimination is illegal, but definitely still performed covertly.

 
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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sharke
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Re: Going through a list of job applicants....sheesh 2016/07/24 22:45:25 (permalink)
Funny that because a lot of business owners I talk to are leaning towards hiring older people because of the horrible time they have with the current crop of 20-30 year olds. I'm a member of a closed forum where people in my line of work discuss the business and having a horrible time with Millennial employees seems to be one of the most common topics of conversation. Yes they're tech-savvy but they seem to have no idea what's required of them as employees and seem to flit from job to job like bees flit from flower to flower, taking a sip at each one. I think I might have told this story on here before but I once got a resume from a girl which outlined the (I think) EIGHT jobs she'd had in the past year. I asked her what she thought that looked like to me as an employer. She said, quite seriously, that she thought it showed a diversity of experience. When I told her what it said to me, that she was someone who couldn't hold down a job for more than a couple of months, she was like "HUH?" 
 
Having said that, my brief experiment with hiring a mature applicant fell flat on its face as well. I took her out for a day on the job and I led her into an client's apartment building in Hell's Kitchen. Quite a nice neighborhood and a modern luxury condo. I'm walking through the lobby and looked behind me to see her standing in the entrance looking nervous. I asked her why she wasn't coming in and she said "There's no doorman! Is it safe?" 
 
And then just before she was due to start she handed me a list of all these upcoming appointments and engagements she would be needing to take the day off for. I passed. 

James
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craigb
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Re: Going through a list of job applicants....sheesh 2016/07/24 23:28:54 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby DrLumen 2016/07/25 04:37:43
I saw the movie Idiocracy with my last roommate.  At first I kept thinking "What a dumb movie!" until it hit me just how scarily accurate it may be.  I see signs of the dumbing down of people everywhere coupled with a herd mentality.  Soon there will be nothing but stupid sheep all around.

 
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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sharke
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Re: Going through a list of job applicants....sheesh 2016/07/24 23:57:13 (permalink)
Everyone keeps telling me to watch that....

James
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BobF
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Re: Going through a list of job applicants....sheesh 2016/07/25 07:38:53 (permalink)
Idiocracy is turning out to be quite prophetic.
 
 

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bitman
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Re: Going through a list of job applicants....sheesh 2016/07/25 09:38:11 (permalink)
Kids today......
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Re: Going through a list of job applicants....sheesh 2016/07/25 09:54:51 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby BobF 2016/07/25 11:23:16
BobF
Idiocracy and Infinite Jest is turning out to be quite prophetic.
 
 


Doubled.
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Moshkito
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Re: Going through a list of job applicants....sheesh 2016/07/25 10:47:55 (permalink)
Hi,
 
I'm taking a break from job this and that, and just concentrate on my own work. 
 
It's time!

Music is not about notes and chords! My poem is not about the computer or monitor or letters! It's about how I was able to translate it from my insides! 
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sharke
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Re: Going through a list of job applicants....sheesh 2016/07/28 09:48:10 (permalink)
The saga continues. I swear to God 97% of people these days are just complete and utter time wasters. Since posting this I deleted my original job posting and posted a new one with a more detailed job description and list of requirements/deal breakers. All pretty standard stuff - you must be reliable, able to work unsupervised, good with animals, you must not have any prior commitments which interfere with the hours cited, you must be looking to work for at least 9 months etc. And then I quite clearly stated that all applications MUST include a cover letter stating why they want the job and what they feel they could bring to it, and that any applications that don't include a cover letter would be ignored. So in the morning I woke up to 137 applications and started going through them one by one. At the end of it all, there were a grand total of SIX that included a cover letter. That's 6 people out of 137 who actually read the job posting and were smart enough to follow the instructions. 
 
Of those six, two spent 30mins+ with me on the phone talking themselves up before casually informing me that they were starting college in a month and would be limited in their availability (despite what I said in the posting), two didn't answer their phones or reply to voice mails and one was incredibly surly and non-cooperative when I called her (answering "mm-hmm" in a sarcastic tone to every question I asked her). Only one stood out with a good keen attitude and ticked all of my boxes. She was supposed to meet me at 11am this morning to come out on the job for an hour for a trial run. I said to myself "there will be some reason why she can't show up," being the eternal pessimist, lol. But then I think "no, you have to think positively. Of course she's going to show." 
 
Woke up this morning to a text. "Due to a family emergency I can't make today. Can we do this some other time?" 
 
I swear, the number of people who have a sudden "family emergency" which stops them coming in for an interview is uncanny. Of course I'm willing to admit that she really had a family emergency. But going by how many times I hear that excuse, the picture in my head is of her getting high with her friends at 5am and one of them saying "You ain't makin' that interview, better send him a text." 
 
For crying out loud, this is a really cool job for someone starting out. $450-$500 a week for a 5 hour day, working outside with dogs, with the potential to increase the hours and pay substantially. 
 
On top of that, because this is a so-called "progressive" city, I am now prohibited by law from asking people if they have a criminal record. I'm only allowed to carry out a background check after I've offered them the position, and even then I'm only permitted to pass on an applicant if they have a criminal history that's directly related to the job. So for instance, since my employees are going to be in possession of clients' apartment keys, I could pass if they have a conviction for burglary. But if they have a conviction for manslaughter or wife beating or possession of a flick knife, legally I have to hire them. It's absurd, the people who write these laws have clearly never run so much as a lemonade stand. Rant!

James
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thedukewestern
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Re: Going through a list of job applicants....sheesh 2016/07/28 11:07:04 (permalink)
I have hired the occasional engineer to cover for me when I have to miss a weekend at the church - one time - someone who seemed to be decent, was a complete moron, and... called at 815am on a sunday saying he was "sick"... more like still wasted and afraid of a dwi.
 
When you DO finally find people that are congruent - treat them very well!  Its a blessing!

Be the first one who thinks that you can
 
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sharke
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Re: Going through a list of job applicants....sheesh 2016/07/28 11:19:12 (permalink)
thedukewestern
I have hired the occasional engineer to cover for me when I have to miss a weekend at the church - one time - someone who seemed to be decent, was a complete moron, and... called at 815am on a sunday saying he was "sick"... more like still wasted and afraid of a dwi.
 
When you DO finally find people that are congruent - treat them very well!  Its a blessing!


True! I always tell prospective employees, if you make a good first impression with me I will hire you like a shot! But we have descended into a society of slack jawed, slack brained time wasters for whom unreliability is a byword. I hate to say it but the current young generation is a disgrace when compared to older generations.

People bandy about all sorts of ideas and reasons as to why the economy is in such a dire state but nobody talks about bad employees and a crappy work ethic and the cost to the economy.
post edited by sharke - 2016/07/28 11:40:30

James
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jamesg1213
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Re: Going through a list of job applicants....sheesh 2016/07/28 13:32:53 (permalink)
That sounds like an ideal job for an older (maybe retired) person who wants to keep fit or maybe a parent with kids in school. Did you get any mature applicants?
 

 
Jyemz
 
 
 



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sharke
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Re: Going through a list of job applicants....sheesh 2016/07/28 14:28:28 (permalink)
jamesg1213
That sounds like an ideal job for an older (maybe retired) person who wants to keep fit or maybe a parent with kids in school. Did you get any mature applicants?
 


Not a lot unfortunately. And oftentimes those who do apply turn out to have a lot of commitments (family, health etc) through the day which means they'll be asking for time off quite frequently. I'm always willing to take a shot at a mature applicant though.

James
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craigb
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Re: Going through a list of job applicants....sheesh 2016/07/28 15:02:35 (permalink)
As I put in the thread about the Muppets firing the music, science and fix-it guys, the government has been working on making the populace into unthinking sheep.  Between the schools and poor parentage (along with this sense of entitlement), this is probably one of the few projects where they (the government) are doing a great job.
 
I talked with a lady who's also been looking for work for over a year and she even applied to work in the deli at Fred Meyer's (a large store chain that has both groceries and non-food items).  She didn't get the job because her resume didn't show any past experience at making sandwiches (that's what they told her when she asked).  She went on to say, "I'm a grandmother with three kids and seven grandkids, I've made a LOT of sandwiches!"
 
Things are just getting stupid out there where, ironically, those that want to really work can't find a job but, those that are looking for quality employees, can't seem to find them either!

 
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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craigb
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Re: Going through a list of job applicants....sheesh 2016/07/28 15:05:52 (permalink)
I've also noticed a trend where most jobs are all sinking to around minimum wage.  I remember when a checker at a supermarket was one of the highest paid employees there (and decently paid compared to other jobs too).  I just talked with one who's trying to find better employment and I asked him why since I thought being a checker was still a really good position. His reply is "Oh, I love my job here, but you just can't live on $9 / hour...".
 
Wow.
 

 
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sharke
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Re: Going through a list of job applicants....sheesh 2016/07/28 17:08:53 (permalink)
I think one thing that's happening job wise is that as the world becomes more and more technologically sophisticated, the value of manual labor goes down. And that's quite predictable when you think about it. As technology advances and the world becomes more complicated, the importance of education increases. Labor is shifting overall from physical work to "thinking" work. Gone are the days when you can hope to raise a family and get through life comfortably on blue collar work. I spoke to a guy recently who was complaining that work as a bartender was not enough to buy an apartment, even out of the city. He honestly thought that because he felt bar tending was his "calling," he should be guaranteed a good living out of it. But really that's not how the world works. The value of labor is changing all the time and skills lose their value, sometimes becoming obsolete. I'm sure if I'd spent a year learning to repair Betamax VCR's in 1983, I'd have felt pretty hard done by a year or so later. 
 
But there's still a place for the kind of job I offer. It generally suits people who are going to evening classes, or young people who are new to the workforce. If anything, working a job like this for a year or two shows your next employers that you are trustworthy and responsible enough to hold down a job. I think part of the problem with kids these days is that they are so immersed in this shallow celebrity BS culture on social media that they can't accept the fact success is something that you work up to from the bottom (unless you're lucky enough to be one of the tiny fraction of people who are born with it in their laps). 

James
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craigb
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Re: Going through a list of job applicants....sheesh 2016/07/28 17:23:42 (permalink)
Hmm...  Ironically, your first paragraph makes me want to invent an automated bartender! 

 
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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sharke
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Re: Going through a list of job applicants....sheesh 2016/07/28 17:26:21 (permalink)
You mean like this? 
 


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craigb
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Re: Going through a list of job applicants....sheesh 2016/07/28 17:29:50 (permalink)
Damn.  Always a few steps behind!  (Though I think it could be done better.)

 
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sharke
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Re: Going through a list of job applicants....sheesh 2016/07/28 17:33:16 (permalink)
I know. Who drinks cocktails? Just pour me a damn beer!

James
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Siluroo
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Re: Going through a list of job applicants....sheesh 2016/07/29 04:44:09 (permalink)
Its not just the manual labor jobs under threat, a lot of legal/accounting/engineering types of jobs are also being replaced for the more repetitive types of tasks.  I was recently reading online about a successful divorce system somewhere in Europe, although for the more complex cases they still use real people to mediate, most of it was automated.  In the legal profession, most of the searches are being automated also.  In engineering there are programs that do the modelling and more.
 
I also remember reading about research being done on music, to see how it affects mood etc, with the aim of automating song writing.
 
I was recently at a funeral, was talking to someone who works in mental health, and they were complaining about the lack of freedom in assessment methods decision making, they told me if you dont follow a step by step procedure you get fired and get replaced by someone who will do what they are told, so even psychological support jobs are becoming automated, though they still have a real person as a contact point.
 
Met one of my old school friends, downtown, a few months ago, he is joiner/cabinetmaker, where he works, all they do now is draw a design in a computer, and hire other people to monitor the machines, its all cut by robots so it just basically slots together like an IKEA product.   He was going nuts with boredom, but is not qualified to do anything else, and is now stuck on a low wage working long hours to pay for house and children.
 
I go to see the doctor, they ask me what the symptoms are, then key them in, the database then spits out some questions, they ask them, or do there observations, and the computer comes back with the diagnosis/recommendations for treatment.  I leave the doctors room wondering why I could not have done this over the internet, and saved myself a 1 hour wait in the waiting room etc.
 
I go to the chemist (drugstore in american speak), take in a prescription (doctors drug order) for medication, they enter it into the computer, a robot the size of a small bedroom processes it, prints a label, sticks a label with persons name and directions onto the required drug box, and it drops it out like airport snack vending machine.  There is no part of that process that requires a pharmacist attendant other than to refill the machine and pass me the end product.  I really do not know why the doctor does not email the request to a distribution center for either pickup or to be mailed to my home address.
 
Geez, even contacting most large companies by phone to either pay a bill to make an inquiry takes you through 15 minutes of automated questions, and a further option of completing a automated satisfaction survey at the end.  Its actually quite difficult to get to speak a person at some Institutions, and others impossible.
 
Automation is changing the world, doing what computers did to typewriters and draftsmen in the 90's, and there are very few jobs that are anywhere near safe.  That includes most of the thinking type ones, the only real brake on progress is peoples fear of machines, ie, wanting a real person to talk too.
 
As for people not looking or wanting work, I just finished watching the local news here, and were two main relevant issues to this article, problems with increasing numbers of homeless people in the city of Melbourne's streets and a survey showing more and more people are having to travel up to 4 hours to get to work, as where the jobs are the housing is so expensive that they cannot afford to buy in or rent.  Melbourne is supposedly one of the most liveable cities in the world if you believe Wikipedia and the agency that rate that sort of thing.
 
As someone else mentioned earlier, people are becoming sheep, and last time I checked, sheep are not getting paid to think!

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#22
Moshkito
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Re: Going through a list of job applicants....sheesh 2016/07/29 10:30:48 (permalink)
Hi,
 
I must have been lucky, or able to find the right folks. In the 5+ years I managed two restaurants (King's Table Buffet) here in Oregon and Washington, I had the lowest turnover of employees, mostly because I could not afford to be on the training mode. In general, I always seemed to find the right person, even if one or two were in school and just needed a part time job and the like. 
 
Probably the worst comment (best?) I ever got, was this girl that was an all-state swim champion for Pendleton High, and my take was ... you can have as many hours as you want if your grades are good or better. She already was a straight A student anyway, but she had dreams and plans. A few days later, she asked me what I thought if she applied to the big schools in California and such. I did not know what I should tell her, so I was honest, but I DID KNOW something about the tennis players, when one of the girls from Blue Mountain (one of the top 2) was all hot to trot about going to Long Beach State and thought she would be Number One there. I could easily beat her 6-2/6-2 ... and I can also tell you that the girls at UCSB, in the same league, were way better, and they could easily beat me 6-2/6-2. So she asked me if she had a chance? I suggested that if she went for studies, might be better, but if she wanted to work her swimming fine, but to take it a step at a time, and hope for the best. She made up her mind to go to Stanford.
 
Two months later I got an angry parent after they had eaten dinner ... you had to help my daughter go away, didn't you? Not really. I was more concerned with her level of competition and getting blown out and quit. As had happened with the tennis player at Blue Mountain, who came back after a quarter totally dismantled and disappointed. She had no idea of the level she was going to face, and when someone warned her, she would not believe me, or anyone. 
 
So, after the comment, and the parents leaving he goes ... but dang'it ... now I'm broke, but she's going to one of the best schools in the country. That's kinda cool.
 
Oh, btw, she did make it to their swim team and they won the Pac 10 the next two years.
 
My thoughts are ... you can not "change" the person, but you can help them get better and at least better centered. I always thought that fellow managers were incredible ... the best dishwasher, the best bus'er, the best cook ... and I looked at them with total amazement ... at how we thought we could "control" these folks with fake ideas and absolution's. 
 
I wish I had a few more full time positions, but I was in two places where I could only have two or three full time positions and I had to blend, mix and match the best I could. But I had no ideas or misgivings, as to what this job was about. There is ALWAYS a kid somewhere that will gladly put out, because you gave him/her a chance to learn and move along ... 

Music is not about notes and chords! My poem is not about the computer or monitor or letters! It's about how I was able to translate it from my insides! 
#23
michaelhanson
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Re: Going through a list of job applicants....sheesh 2016/07/29 13:34:48 (permalink)
sharke
thedukewestern
I have hired the occasional engineer to cover for me when I have to miss a weekend at the church - one time - someone who seemed to be decent, was a complete moron, and... called at 815am on a sunday saying he was "sick"... more like still wasted and afraid of a dwi.
 
When you DO finally find people that are congruent - treat them very well!  Its a blessing!


True! I always tell prospective employees, if you make a good first impression with me I will hire you like a shot! But we have descended into a society of slack jawed, slack brained time wasters for whom unreliability is a byword. I hate to say it but the current young generation is a disgrace when compared to older generations.

People bandy about all sorts of ideas and reasons as to why the economy is in such a dire state but nobody talks about bad employees and a crappy work ethic and the cost to the economy.


Sadly, I must agree.

Mike

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eph221
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Re: Going through a list of job applicants....sheesh 2016/07/29 22:47:14 (permalink)
Moshkito
Hi,
 
I must have been lucky, or able to find the right folks. In the 5+ years I managed two restaurants (King's Table Buffet) here in Oregon and Washington, I had the lowest turnover of employees, mostly because I could not afford to be on the training mode. In general, I always seemed to find the right person, even if one or two were in school and just needed a part time job and the like. 
 
Probably the worst comment (best?) I ever got, was this girl that was an all-state swim champion for Pendleton High, and my take was ... you can have as many hours as you want if your grades are good or better. She already was a straight A student anyway, but she had dreams and plans. A few days later, she asked me what I thought if she applied to the big schools in California and such. I did not know what I should tell her, so I was honest, but I DID KNOW something about the tennis players, when one of the girls from Blue Mountain (one of the top 2) was all hot to trot about going to Long Beach State and thought she would be Number One there. I could easily beat her 6-2/6-2 ... and I can also tell you that the girls at UCSB, in the same league, were way better, and they could easily beat me 6-2/6-2. So she asked me if she had a chance? I suggested that if she went for studies, might be better, but if she wanted to work her swimming fine, but to take it a step at a time, and hope for the best. She made up her mind to go to Stanford.
 
Two months later I got an angry parent after they had eaten dinner ... you had to help my daughter go away, didn't you? Not really. I was more concerned with her level of competition and getting blown out and quit. As had happened with the tennis player at Blue Mountain, who came back after a quarter totally dismantled and disappointed. She had no idea of the level she was going to face, and when someone warned her, she would not believe me, or anyone. 
 
So, after the comment, and the parents leaving he goes ... but dang'it ... now I'm broke, but she's going to one of the best schools in the country. That's kinda cool.
 
Oh, btw, she did make it to their swim team and they won the Pac 10 the next two years.
 
My thoughts are ... you can not "change" the person, but you can help them get better and at least better centered. I always thought that fellow managers were incredible ... the best dishwasher, the best bus'er, the best cook ... and I looked at them with total amazement ... at how we thought we could "control" these folks with fake ideas and absolution's. 
 
I wish I had a few more full time positions, but I was in two places where I could only have two or three full time positions and I had to blend, mix and match the best I could. But I had no ideas or misgivings, as to what this job was about. There is ALWAYS a kid somewhere that will gladly put out, because you gave him/her a chance to learn and move along ... 


Moshkito I'm serious, you missed your calling as a writer!  
#25
Beagle
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Re: Going through a list of job applicants....sheesh 2016/07/30 08:23:20 (permalink)
sharke
 
On top of that, because this is a so-called "progressive" city, I am now prohibited by law from asking people if they have a criminal record. I'm only allowed to carry out a background check after I've offered them the position, and even then I'm only permitted to pass on an applicant if they have a criminal history that's directly related to the job. So for instance, since my employees are going to be in possession of clients' apartment keys, I could pass if they have a conviction for burglary. But if they have a conviction for manslaughter or wife beating or possession of a flick knife, legally I have to hire them. It's absurd, the people who write these laws have clearly never run so much as a lemonade stand. Rant!


that's just asinine!!  what good does it do an employer to run a background check AFTER they've offered someone a position????

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#26
eph221
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Re: Going through a list of job applicants....sheesh 2016/07/30 08:31:09 (permalink)
We have a similar law viz rejection based on background check that has to be related to job activities.  I value this aspect of the law to protect laborers with bad credit.  In a down market, lots of folks had bad credit and without that law they could have been rejected for dog walking jobs Hhow does bad credit affect walking a dog? (Doesn't the person with bad credit need a job worse than the person with good credit!!)  Of course in a free market, why should anything come between master and servant?  Practically, it's more complicated.  I'd never be able to win that argument.  Why shouldn't you be able to hire anyone you want?!! :D:D
post edited by eph221 - 2016/07/30 08:55:21
#27
Siluroo
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Re: Going through a list of job applicants....sheesh 2016/07/30 08:56:33 (permalink)
There are also practicalities, how many billions of background checks would be need to be done part of the job screening process.  Even the OP here has had hundreds of applicants, and I know for some jobs I have applied for in the past there have been 1000's.
 
 
 

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#28
Moshkito
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Re: Going through a list of job applicants....sheesh 2016/07/30 09:51:45 (permalink)
eph221
...
Moshkito I'm serious, you missed your calling as a writer!  




That was the problem ... I was  a writer and artist a midst a bunch of child molesters, rapists and generally dishonest folks in management next to me in other restaurants! We haven't even mentioned the money "borrowed" from petty cash, yet!

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#29
SteveStrummerUK
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Re: Going through a list of job applicants....sheesh 2016/07/30 09:51:53 (permalink)
 
 
What sort of dog owners actually pay for a service like this? I wouldn't even consider owning a pooch if I wasn't prepared to exercise it, or if it meant leaving it home alone for hours on end. Fair enough I suppose if the owner is physically disabled, but if the excuse is that the owner is too 'busy', I wouldn't consider them to be good candidates to own a mutt anyway.
 
I find it all quite absurd that such a service is booming, more so that dog owners are prepared to hand over enough cash to allow James to pay someone $20-ish an hour and still cream off enough to make a profit.
 
Still, good on you mate for filling that niche!

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#30
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