Good Microphone for Vocals

I need a recommendation for an economical microphone that will record vocals well through GTPro3 through a Fast Track USB. I just have a cheapo radio shack dynamic microphone, but it has issues... get too loud and it overloads, so I'm constantly trying to find the right distance from the thing for the volume I'm singing at at the time. This is compounded by the fact that the volume you get through the m-audio isn't the same volume as what the computer is getting because of the "mix" nob... grrr.

Anyway, any hints on getting a better sound whether or not that involves getting a new mic, is appreciated.

~Brent

Well there's MXL for cheapo mics - which I've heard are quite good actually - will definitely bury that radioshack mic. Shure is a solid brand too, slightly more expensive but still economical and the SM57 and SM58 are standard mics that are found in everyone's studio. The SM57 is supposed to be more versatile since it's perfect as an instrument mic, and then add a windscreen for vocals. Although I noticed more bottom end and a rounder sound with the SM58, it's not as optimal as an instrument mic. (That said, I use both the 57 and 58 simultaneously for recording acoustic guitar).

Starting out, it might be better to go with something more versatile so you can get a feel for everything. I also noticed an MXL set of 2 different condenser mics and an m-audio mic pre-amp for a hundred bucks at musician's friend.

Ok, now the volume level thing...two things: You're going to need a compressor or limiter to keep the volume from spiking like that and/or you need to get better at working the mic. Meaning moving into it for softer passages and moving away during louder ones. Learning how to do that smoothly relative to your volume.

And what's with the mix knob? This sounds like it might be a good thing. Think about it. If you need to hear your voice louder while you record over some heavy guitars or something, then you can turn that up as loud as you want without changing the level the computer is receiving and recording. Or I've misinterpreted your mix knob...

Oh, I almost forgot...

No, I don't think it has phantom power, although it might. It draws its power through the USB line that connects the the computer... so maybe it has other phantom stuff I don't know about. Not sure how I'd check.

~Brent

The trouble is, since I can't bypass it, it creates a difficulty recording vocals because I don't know what kind of volume I'm actually getting recorded into the program until after I stop.

I'm not sure about Guitar Tracks specifically, but I would think you'd have a software meter. Depending on your soundcard software, you should have a meter to use there too. I use the track meter in cakewalk home studio, but I also have visible meters through the EMU mixer software. I don't know how I'd record without a meter, otherwise you're flying blind.

My budget is whatever it needs to be... I COULD affort to slap down 100 bucks right now if I had to... but I'm hoping I don't have to. I certainly don't mind used gear, either.

Well you don't HAVE to, I guess. But a mic is pretty crucial. Those MXL's can be quite cheap, even new. Like 50 bucks or so. The thing is, the mic is arguably one the most crucial points in recording. After all, the recording will only be as good as the mic can "hear" it. So if the mic sucks, the recording will ALWAYS suck. There's no fixing that.

Of course, some of the smarter guys in here can probably help you record better with a cheap mic. I don't own expensive mics either. But when I'm spending hours and hours recording and working, I can't see using anything less than at least a decent Shure mic - like the 57. After all that work, I want to know if wasn't for nothing. I've been there with ultra cheapo mics, and that's discouraging after all the time and energy spent on something to hear the result.

You mention a compressor/limiter... is this a type of mic or some other piece of gear, or an effect? Come to think of it I think my old (it's crappy, I know) ZOOM pedal had something like that on it...

It's not a type of mic, but rather a piece of gear or built into other gear. It's actually fairly common. You could use the one from your ZOOM pedal - but I'd just use the limiter. I wouldn't mess with the compressor - well maybe for fun or effect I guess, but it will probably not be real nice for your voice. Set the limiter up so when you scream bloody murder it doesn't clip the signal - which you'll be able to see once you locate your meters.

No, I don't think it has phantom power, although it might. It draws its power through the USB line that connects the the computer... so maybe it has other phantom stuff I don't know about. Not sure how I'd check.

Phantom power will be an on/off switch of some kind on the pre-amp. It sends a voltage over the XLR cable your mic is plugged into already. It requires no other connectivity, you just have to flip the switch. It's for condenser mics, not dynamic. This is why I mentioned that set of MXL mics with that pre-amp - because it has phantom power, whereas yours apparently does not. You're going to want a condenser mic someday, trust me.

Anyway, good luck!

ORIGINAL: mgh

why not go for one of those usb samson condenser mics (CO1u), draws phantom power straight from the pc, and from what i've heard, is pretty good for a budget mike.

compression is a way of both increasing the signal level and smoothing out the peaks and troughs of a recording - a limiter is another type of compressor mostly used for mastering, again it increase the overall volume of a track.

NOOOOOO! USB mics are NOT good for recording with sequencers like CW. USB mics have A/D converters in them; which basically means they have a "one way sound card" built in. But they only work in MME driver mode (at least from the experience I've seen on the forums). Any time you've got two or more sound cards in a system, ONE of them has to be the timing master because they work on separate clocks (there are exceptions - like the m-audio delta series). this can be a recording nightmare. and since the USB mic only works with MME driver mode, your REAL sound card has to be operating with MME since you can't choose different driver modes for each card. That means the worst possible latency for your system.

NOOOOOO! USB mics are NOT good for recording with sequencers like CW. USB mics have A/D converters in them; which basically means they have a "one way sound card" built in. But they only work in MME driver mode (at least from the experience I've seen on the forums). Any time you've got two or more sound cards in a system, ONE of them has to be the timing master because they work on separate clocks (there are exceptions - like the m-audio delta series). this can be a recording nightmare. and since the USB mic only works with MME driver mode, your REAL sound card has to be operating with MME since you can't choose different driver modes for each card. That means the worst possible latency for your system.

is this right Beagle? i have never seen any mention of this issue in reviews - i'm not disagreeing, just it's interesting to know if that's the case!!!

so it's more of a CW issue? just cos in other forums like harmony central people were using them ok in things like digidesign...interesting, i'm guessing this is another reason why onboard sound needs to be disabled to get sonar/hs working - do you know the reason why this is? is it a software code thing in sonar or to do with how the sonar audio engine interacts with windows???

so even using sonar/hs as the master clock doesn't solve this problem? thanks for taking the time to explain that Beagle, you learn something everyday on here!!

I've yet to see anything related to USB recording that's worth a crap. There's always some kind of latency issue, quality issues, and etc. I think it's more of a toy for kids.

I know you want to save money, but you have to draw the line somewhere, or else why bother with any quality at all? Just take 20 bucks to radio shack and get everything you need. I mean really. If 50 dollar MXL mics are too much, then I don't get where you're coming from at all. Just get some 5 dollar recording mics and jam on.

I don't think you're going to get anyone to guarentee you that buying a new mic will solve your problems. especially since the problem you describe in your OP says that you have to move back and forth away from the mic to keep the sound at an even level. honestly, a good singer is SUPPOSED to do that and knows exactly how to work the mic during recording. if the singer is belting it and then whispering (exaggeration) then a new mic will NOT stop this problem. if most of the dynamics of the vocals are within a small range and he still has to move WAY back and WAY forward, then a new mic MIGHT help with this problem. It might still be something else in the signal chain like the pre or the soundcard (though I doubt that with the m-audio fastrak).

Bottom line is that you're going to have to decide if a new mic is worth it for you or not. Condensor mics will give you a smoother, warmer sound than dynamics, but they may not solve the problem you're describing. a compressor will work, but I wouldn't recommend most people use a compressor to record vocals with - most people just need to learn to "work the mic".

If you have a meter make sure your not clipping the sound when you sing. You make sure the meter never peaks at your highest note. Other than that the only thing I can think of is get a new mic(condenser's work very well. That's what I use.). I don't have your software or anything, but that's my opinion.

PS Also if you get a condenser, I'd get a large diaphragm. It seems to work the best for me.

would a condenser mic alleviate this?

Probably not. Condensers are even more prone to overload -- I'm talking about overdriving the mic element itself, not the electronics. Among my condensers, the less-expensive ones seem to be more susceptible to this than the high-end ones. If you really have that powerful a voice, get an SM57 or SM58 -- I know of nothing else that handle higher SPLs.