AnsweredGood tone from 0-10: easy clip-on mod

Author
mettelus
Max Output Level: -22 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 5321
  • Joined: 2005/08/05 03:19:25
  • Location: Maryland, USA
  • Status: offline
2015/08/14 19:42:32 (permalink)

Good tone from 0-10: easy clip-on mod

Stewart-MacDonald has been doing short videos of various things each month and I didn't get on this list till I ordered a phase switch several months ago. Some of these are very interesting and enlightening for the guitarists out there.
 
This particular one focuses on a non-intrusive tone circuit used to allow customers to evaluate tone before any modification is done. Very slick approach, and the focus is not to have the volume knob suddenly dig into the tone when it move from 10-0.
 
This newsletter is found here, and can subscribe to the list if desired at that link.

ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero (Wi-Fi AC), i7-8700k, 16GB RAM, GTX-1070Ti, Win 10 Pro, Saffire PRO 24 DSP, A-300 PRO, plus numerous gadgets and gizmos that make or manipulate sound in some way.
#1
bitflipper
01100010 01101001 01110100 01100110 01101100 01101
  • Total Posts : 26036
  • Joined: 2006/09/17 11:23:23
  • Location: Everett, WA USA
  • Status: offline
Re: Good tone from 0-10: easy clip-on mod 2015/08/15 09:15:04 (permalink)
Interesting. What it's doing is making your volume control nonlinear, frequency-wise, so that as you turn the volume down a capacitive shunt bypasses the potentiometer for high frequencies. You're essentially combining a tone control with the volume control that makes the signal brighter as you turn the volume down. 
 
The obvious question: why don't guitar manufacturers put in the shunt themselves? 


All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

My Stuff
#2
mettelus
Max Output Level: -22 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 5321
  • Joined: 2005/08/05 03:19:25
  • Location: Maryland, USA
  • Status: offline
Re: Good tone from 0-10: easy clip-on mod 2015/08/15 15:27:54 (permalink)
That is a good question, and I think ultimately that might come down to appeasing traditionalists, both in appearance and performance. Many features require an "on/off" capability to them to achieve this, and folks do not want to buy an expensive guitar which has a different "look" than its predecessors. When I redid my guitar, I added 6 switches, but made painstaking efforts to "hide" 5 of them. Only one is visibly different from the original appearance.
 
Another part of manufacturing environments is that SPC (statistical process control) is the driver, assuming that A=B=C, etc. In this particular case I do not see the harm in that circuit being "stock," but others may. An interesting manufacturing point was brought up by the luthier who PLEK'd my guitar. When I mentioned Gibson PLEKing, he had said "Sure, they do, but with the guitars unstrung (not sure if that is true, or he meant "all strung with the same gauge strings"). Simply stringing them with your choice of strings/tuning can knock this off-kilter quickly, and I have re-PLEK'd very expensive, brand new Gibsons." The manufacturing aspect has to "assume" a standard, but not all fall into this mold.

ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero (Wi-Fi AC), i7-8700k, 16GB RAM, GTX-1070Ti, Win 10 Pro, Saffire PRO 24 DSP, A-300 PRO, plus numerous gadgets and gizmos that make or manipulate sound in some way.
#3
mikedocy
Max Output Level: -67 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 1157
  • Joined: 2007/05/09 23:00:37
  • Location: Cleveland, Ohio
  • Status: offline
Re: Good tone from 0-10: easy clip-on mod 2015/08/17 11:31:28 (permalink)
bitflipper
 
The obvious question: why don't guitar manufacturers put in the shunt themselves? 




Some do from time to time. I have seen Les Paul's of certain model years have it as a feature.
My old Strat had it built in from the factory.
Some people are very traditional and don't like it. Jazz guys like that it gets bassier as you turn down the volume.
#4
tlw
Max Output Level: -49.5 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 2567
  • Joined: 2008/10/11 22:06:32
  • Location: West Midlands, UK
  • Status: offline
Re: Good tone from 0-10: easy clip-on mod 2015/08/17 14:09:05 (permalink)
I've a Lite Ash Tele that has a resistor/capacitor shunt combination across the volume pot from the (Indonesian or Korean) factory.

It kind of works to let more treble through as the volume pot's turned down, but to be honest I'm often inclined to snip it off and get rid of it. Adding more top as you increase volume can be very useful, unless you're the kind of player who sets the guitar controls to 10 and leaves them alone after that.

And it's a very bright Tele to start with, the last thing it needs is more treble all the time, especially when you turn the volume up to compensate for volume loss when rolling off the tone control.

Sonar Platinum 64bit, Windows 8.1 Pro 64bit, I7 3770K Ivybridge, 16GB Ram, Gigabyte Z77-D3H m/board,
ATI 7750 graphics+ 1GB RAM, 2xIntel 520 series 220GB SSDs, 1 TB Samsung F3 + 1 TB WD HDDs, Seasonic fanless 460W psu, RME Fireface UFX, Focusrite Octopre.
Assorted real synths, guitars, mandolins, diatonic accordions, percussion, fx and other stuff.
#5
mettelus
Max Output Level: -22 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 5321
  • Joined: 2005/08/05 03:19:25
  • Location: Maryland, USA
  • Status: offline
Re: Good tone from 0-10: easy clip-on mod 2015/08/18 03:00:51 (permalink)
Do any of the guitars which have this "stock" come with a switch to bypass it? I assume no, since altering the appearance tends to be "sacrilege," but am curious about this.

ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero (Wi-Fi AC), i7-8700k, 16GB RAM, GTX-1070Ti, Win 10 Pro, Saffire PRO 24 DSP, A-300 PRO, plus numerous gadgets and gizmos that make or manipulate sound in some way.
#6
codamedia
Max Output Level: -67 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 1185
  • Joined: 2005/01/24 09:58:10
  • Location: Winnipeg Canada
  • Status: offline
Re: Good tone from 0-10: easy clip-on mod 2015/08/18 18:34:13 (permalink) ☼ Best Answerby mettelus 2015/08/18 19:22:49
On a guitar forum there would be 1000+ posts on this already
 
1: This works
2: Some people like it
3: Some people don't
4: People love to disagree about it.
 
Try it on your guitar and see if you like it. If you do like it, solder it in and forget it's there. All he did in this video was put a couple of alligator clips in rather than solder.
 
mettelus
Do any of the guitars which have this "stock" come with a switch to bypass it? I assume no, since altering the appearance tends to be "sacrilege," but am curious about this.

 
It's the most basic of mods on a guitar. Generally - you like it or you don't. It's not usually something you would toggle on/off so it doesn't normally justify an added switch.
post edited by codamedia - 2015/08/18 18:49:44

Don't fix it in the mix ... Fix it in the take! 
 

Desktop: Win 7 Pro 64 Bit , ASUS MB w/Intel Chipset, INTEL Q9300 Quad Core, 2.5 GHz, 8 GB RAM, ATI 5450 Video
Laptop: Windows 7 Pro, i5, 8 Gig Ram
Hardware: Presonus FP10 (Firepod), FaderPort, M-Audio Axiom 49, Mackie 1202 VLZ, POD X3 Live, Variax 600, etc... etc...
#7
maximumpower
Max Output Level: -76 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 731
  • Joined: 2011/05/13 19:14:34
  • Location: Ohio
  • Status: offline
Re: Good tone from 0-10: easy clip-on mod 2015/08/19 08:31:24 (permalink)
I made this mod on one of my guitars many years ago. None of my current guitars have it. I like the clip on concept though.
 
At some point, I may make a clip on version and try it.
 
I have two Carvin tube amps and with the same guitar and cables, they react differently with the volume being turned down.
 
One would benefit from the mod but I don't think the other would.
 
Still a very interesting idea to try before you solder :-)

Win 10 (64 bit), i7-2600k 3.4GHz , 8 GB RAM, SATA III (500GB SSD - System, 2TB WD Black - Data), Sonar Platinum x64, m-audio Profire 610

#8
mettelus
Max Output Level: -22 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 5321
  • Joined: 2005/08/05 03:19:25
  • Location: Maryland, USA
  • Status: offline
Re: Good tone from 0-10: easy clip-on mod 2015/08/19 09:34:02 (permalink)
The configuration would definitely come into play. I tend to use the volume knob very little and attenuate at the amp/interface. There was a point where I debated removing the volume pot completely (having read of some folks who have done this), but realized that has saved me more than once on feedback loops.
 
I do have a couple guitars with tone/volume per HB (the "4-knob jobs") with stock pickups that would most likely benefit from this, so may try the clip-on approach one of these days.

ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero (Wi-Fi AC), i7-8700k, 16GB RAM, GTX-1070Ti, Win 10 Pro, Saffire PRO 24 DSP, A-300 PRO, plus numerous gadgets and gizmos that make or manipulate sound in some way.
#9
Grem
Max Output Level: -19.5 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 5562
  • Joined: 2005/06/28 09:26:32
  • Location: Baton Rouge Area
  • Status: offline
Re: Good tone from 0-10: easy clip-on mod 2015/08/19 10:58:20 (permalink)
I have grown accustomed to the effect that turning the volume down does to the tone.

Now I notice this affect much more on single coils. I have a G&L that when I back off the volume from 10-8 there is a noticeable tone difference. On my LP I don't notice until I get the 6-7. And it's not as drastic a change as the single coil.

Grem

Michael
 
Music PC
i7 2600K; 64gb Ram; 3 256gb SSD, System, Samples, Audio; 1TB & 2TB Project Storage; 2TB system BkUp; RME FireFace 400; Win 10 Pro 64; CWbBL 64, 
Home PC
AMD FX 6300; 8gb Ram; 256 SSD sys; 2TB audio/samples; Realtek WASAPI; Win 10 Home 64; CWbBL 64 
Surface Pro 3
Win 10  i7 8gb RAM; CWbBL 64
#10
bitflipper
01100010 01101001 01110100 01100110 01101100 01101
  • Total Posts : 26036
  • Joined: 2006/09/17 11:23:23
  • Location: Everett, WA USA
  • Status: offline
Re: Good tone from 0-10: easy clip-on mod 2015/08/19 18:40:04 (permalink)
I would expect the modification's effect to vary from one pickup/amp combination to another, which is probably why some people like it and others do not, and why the presenter elected to make it a temporary try-it-and-see solution. 
 


All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

My Stuff
#11
ampfixer
Max Output Level: -20 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 5508
  • Joined: 2010/12/12 20:11:50
  • Location: Ontario
  • Status: offline
Re: Good tone from 0-10: easy clip-on mod 2015/08/19 23:48:34 (permalink)
The volume control loads down the tone pot on most modern guitars. The early 57 Les Pauls and other,s swap a couple wires in the circuit so that the tone control loads the volume pot. You turn down the volume and the tone stays nice. You turn down the tone and the volume drops a bit.

Regards, John 
 I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps.
WIN 10 Pro X64, I7-3770k 16 gigs, ASUS Z77 pro, AMD 7950 3 gig,  Steinberg UR44, A-Pro 500, Sonar Platinum, KRK Rokit 6 
#12
Cactus Music
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 8424
  • Joined: 2004/02/09 21:34:04
  • Status: offline
Re: Good tone from 0-10: easy clip-on mod 2015/08/20 10:16:14 (permalink)
The problem- the quest as a lead guitarist to define a smooth transition between back up fills and lead solos. 
I've tried this as well as every front end volume trick I could find. Volume pedals, Stomp boxes and yes using the volume control on the guitar. 
I use a none channel swicthing amp so I can't do that trick. But my conclution is the only way to keep the same tone and amount of overdrive is to change the master volume on my Princeton. 
Every other trick to lower the volume just kills your tone and sustain. 
So I'm looking into a volume pedal that takes over the amps master volume. SHouldn't be hard to do. 

Johnny V  
Cakelab  
Focusrite 6i61st - Tascam us1641. 
3 Desktops and 3 Laptops W7 and W10
 http://www.cactusmusic.ca/
 
 
#13
tlw
Max Output Level: -49.5 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 2567
  • Joined: 2008/10/11 22:06:32
  • Location: West Midlands, UK
  • Status: offline
Re: Good tone from 0-10: easy clip-on mod 2015/08/21 12:49:00 (permalink)
If you want the same tone and overdrive at all volumes the "traditional" way is to use a big amp that doesn't overdrive easily and has lots of clean headroom. Twin reverbs and Hiwatts are two examples. Turn it up to where you need the clean volume to be then leave it alone.

Then use an overdrive or distortion that has quite a bit of compression, e.g. a tubescreamer or Big Muff followed by a volume pedal which effectively becomes your master volume.

Sonar Platinum 64bit, Windows 8.1 Pro 64bit, I7 3770K Ivybridge, 16GB Ram, Gigabyte Z77-D3H m/board,
ATI 7750 graphics+ 1GB RAM, 2xIntel 520 series 220GB SSDs, 1 TB Samsung F3 + 1 TB WD HDDs, Seasonic fanless 460W psu, RME Fireface UFX, Focusrite Octopre.
Assorted real synths, guitars, mandolins, diatonic accordions, percussion, fx and other stuff.
#14
Jump to:
© 2024 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1