Unknowen
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Gravel missing from vocals.
I've been trying to get the gravel or rasp of my voice record for years.
I can hear it when recording but on playback it's always gone.
I can fudge it with plugins but I can never record it.
The setup: Avantone CV 12 > Art Pro Channel > Mackie VLZ 1604 pro > Tascam Us1200.
Playback: Tascam us1200 > headphone at this point with or with out Sonarworks Ref3
Thankyou!
Hay look, Somethings are not locked in stone... lol 3/18/2019
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Slugbaby
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Re: Gravel missing from vocals.
2017/04/06 19:38:41
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Shot of cheap whiskey and/or a cigar right before recording vocal tracks. I'm not joking.
And the cigar will also loosen the muscles in your throat to help with lower-range. My teacher, who was also a pro opera singer, told me that's what the 3 tenors did for their bottom end.
The growl is probably subtle enough when recording that you THINK it's prevalent, but not quite. For what it's worth, I have the same problem. Mistreating my voice right before recording helps, but some of us just have to accept that we're not growlers.
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daryl1968
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Re: Gravel missing from vocals.
2017/04/06 19:45:02
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Slugbaby
Shot of cheap whiskey and/or a cigar right before recording vocal tracks. I'm not joking.
And the cigar will also loosen the muscles in your throat to help with lower-range. My teacher, who was also a pro opera singer, told me that's what the 3 tenors did for their bottom end.
The growl is probably subtle enough when recording that you THINK it's prevalent, but not quite. For what it's worth, I have the same problem. Mistreating my voice right before recording helps, but some of us just have to accept that we're not growlers.
but he's only 12 years old..... 
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Jimbo 88
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Re: Gravel missing from vocals.
2017/04/06 19:45:46
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try a Sure sm57 or cheaper mic...then try adding some saturation if you have it on prochannel
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gswitz
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Re: Gravel missing from vocals.
2017/04/06 20:21:54
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☄ Helpfulby jude77 2017/04/07 14:46:53
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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Unknowen
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Re: Gravel missing from vocals.
2017/04/06 21:10:38
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Hum, whisky? lol I don't really drink. have a genetic rasp, its a family thing, maybe because my grand parents drank an smoke...
No not 12... older then dirt here...lol well unless you didn't mean me... ha.
Cheap mic? hum.... I have one of them sm57sw
EQ yea :( but it's not the same..
Thanks just the same.
Hay look, Somethings are not locked in stone... lol 3/18/2019
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jpetersen
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Re: Gravel missing from vocals.
2017/04/06 21:39:39
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Get closer to the mic, loosen the vocal chords, let the cheeks hang down and go a bit into talk-singing,
like the Man in Black did. He had a low, casual voice and he mostly kept in a low register and went a bit off-key as if he was struggling when singing higher.
But if it ain't there, it ain't there, I guess.
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rebel007
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Re: Gravel missing from vocals.
2017/04/06 22:38:08
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☄ Helpfulby jude77 2017/04/07 14:48:05
Experimentation with different mics, and mic techniques, is the only real way to learn how to capture your voice in the best way.
It's true that alcohol and cigarettes have been known to add to a vocalists sound. But also, time of day, how tired you are, your emotional state etc., etc., can all change how your voice sounds.
It's a known psychoacoustic effect, that we hear our own voices deeper, and with more timbre, than they sound in the "real" world. There is not a singer in the world who has not been surprised when they hear their voice recorded for the first time. It has something to do with hearing the vibrations of the bones and muscles in our body when we make sounds. Ask a trusted colleague how close your recorded vocals are to what your voice sounds like from their point of view.
Or, have your voice recorded in a few different studios. Tell the engineer what you are trying to achieve and then make notes of their mic choices and settings. Any engineer worth their salt will be only too glad to help you achieve your goal.
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chuckebaby
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Re: Gravel missing from vocals.
2017/04/06 22:55:45
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Have you tried using some Saturation ?
Softubes Sat module in the PC is perfect in cases like this.
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JohanSebatianGremlin
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Re: Gravel missing from vocals.
2017/04/06 23:20:20
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☄ Helpfulby slartabartfast 2017/04/08 18:52:46
11Dreams
Hum, whisky? lol I don't really drink. have a genetic rasp, its a family thing, maybe because my grand parents drank an smoke...
Are you sure? I mean I have no doubt that you can hear it. But everyone's voice sounds different in their own head than it does to anyone else. Vibrations of the skull and all that. Are you able to record your voice into things other than Sonar and hear the rasp?
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Leadfoot
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Re: Gravel missing from vocals.
2017/04/07 00:11:03
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Are you double tracking your voice? If so, that can definitely hide the grit in your voice. So can too much reverb.
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BenMMusTech
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Re: Gravel missing from vocals.
2017/04/07 01:37:59
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+1 for Tube Saturation found in the Pro Channel. This will give you a distorted vocal, something akin to The Beatles I Am The Walrus.
Another option is using an amp sim, again to create distortion along with a pitch shifter. I particularly like Guitar Rig 4s octave pedal or Waves Doubler for this effect.
Finally, the old fashioned way is to sing yourself hoarse...like Jim Morrison, just scream into a SM58 or something like that and you should get a gravelly effect.
I don't recommend you take up smoking like Freddie Mercury did, he smoked or so the story goes because he liked the gravelly effect it gave his voice in later years...I'm not sure how many smokes a day and how long it took to get that effect...it also gave him throat nodules too.
:)
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fantini
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Re: Gravel missing from vocals.
2017/04/07 04:58:38
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Try eating a spoonful of Oregano Leaves.
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deswind
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Re: Gravel missing from vocals.
2017/04/07 05:15:07
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Doesn't everyone before they record? Seriously, this has to be the post of the year. fantini
Try eating a spoonful of Oregano Leaves.
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Kalle Rantaaho
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Re: Gravel missing from vocals.
2017/04/07 06:27:08
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JohanSebatianGremlin
11Dreams
Hum, whisky? lol I don't really drink. have a genetic rasp, its a family thing, maybe because my grand parents drank an smoke...
Are you sure? I mean I have no doubt that you can hear it. But everyone's voice sounds different in their own head than it does to anyone else. Vibrations of the skull and all that. Are you able to record your voice into things other than Sonar and hear the rasp?
This is what I was thinking first. If the rasp hasn't been washed away by reverb, and the microphone is decent, there is no reason for the rasp to be inaudible. A sweep with an EQ boost could reveal the main frequency of the raspiness and help to enhance it. Then again, it's also a question of the type of raspiness. Is it the kind that you hear singing relatively low-pitch melodies in a relaxed way, or is it like Rod Stewart and the likes that dominates no matter how or what you sing?
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Gravel missing from vocals.
2017/04/07 11:06:22
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I would go with trying different mics and trying different mic angles and positions. A few centimeters makes a huge difference on vocals.
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soens
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Re: Gravel missing from vocals.
2017/04/07 11:12:52
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A nice head cold always helps.... tho it's hard to get thru an entire session without the nose clearing routine interupting. 
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Slugbaby
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Re: Gravel missing from vocals.
2017/04/07 11:44:31
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I read a story about John Lennon recording the vocals for Twist And Shout. They scheduled it for the last track of the session, because he knew he'd blow out his voice on that track and not be able to sing properly for a while afterwards.
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AT
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Re: Gravel missing from vocals.
2017/04/07 14:09:49
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If you have a raspy voice and performance it should be no problem to capture. I did some demos for a female guitar/vox and she had the sweetest voice. Except on one song, the chorus, and she would go all rapsy.
If there is rasp there, you need to bring it out more in performance. Then you can try to augment it. If it ain't there, augmentation won't have much effect.
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chuckebaby
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Re: Gravel missing from vocals.
2017/04/07 14:44:25
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Just wrote out a nice long post and the spam filter must have ate it because I pressed "Post" and its gone !
Please Cakewalk fix this issue of the disappearing posts. Its getting frustrating.
The shorter version...
It could be your headphones distorting a little bit because of high levels while recording vocals.
Try to run a few tests by turning down your monitoring level and listen.
Part 2 was about EQ. use EQ to bring out the gravel. try 800Hz to 1K.
Also try 3K but be careful this can lead to excessive sibilance if not careful.
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fantini
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Re: Gravel missing from vocals.
2017/04/07 15:05:17
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deswind
Doesn't everyone before they record? Seriously, this has to be the post of the year.
fantini
Try eating a spoonful of Oregano Leaves.
deswind
Doesn't everyone before they record? Seriously, this has to be the post of the year.
fantini
Try eating a spoonful of Oregano Leaves.
Seriously, it works for me. Be sure to have water bottle handy. Also, when you're on the road, keep it concealed. The police often confuse it with marijuana.
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Unknowen
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Re: Gravel missing from vocals.
2017/04/07 15:12:56
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I may have not been clear with my problem. lol
I could hear the rasp in the headphones (monitoring) as recording but it was on the recording.
I have been using ever trick I could think of to add (as I like to call it) sand to the mix but I wanted the gravel of my voice.
My idea was that I was missing something going into the DAW...
EQ pre daw was the answer. I never messed with anything going in I just hit record...
Thanks for all the ideas!
I don't know if it will help anyone but this is what I ended up doing.
For me recoding myself makes it hard to really hear what I am recording. Duh! lol
I used the Spectrum on the IK meter in real-time as I was singing to adjust the channel strip’s EQ so I basically was getting a full frequency sweep at -20db from around 200 – 20k so now when I record my voice there won’t be frequency that are nonexistent or too hot.
I have to say this was amazing! I can see what my voice is doing now and if I have a full spectrum I won’t have to add sand to a missing or low frequency that was not really there in the first place. Well I’m psyched! 😊
Hay look, Somethings are not locked in stone... lol 3/18/2019
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mettelus
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Re: Gravel missing from vocals.
2017/04/07 17:22:37
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☄ Helpfulby 11Dreams 2017/04/07 21:58:20
11Dreams
I can hear it when recording but on playback it's always gone.
Not sure if this is mentioned above, but what you hear in your own ears is muffled and affected by all of the tissue and bone between your voice and ears. What a microphone records is truth, and how others hear you, so if not recorded it is not as prevalent as you perceive. Practicing as suggested above will help you condition yourself, but always do so with a mic as your judge. And not while singing, but post-production. Most folks do not realize the high pitch content of their voice until recorded. Rolling off that high end will also be more like "what you hear."
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M@
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Re: Gravel missing from vocals.
2017/04/08 07:30:48
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As mettelus and one other poster mentioned: How you hear yourself (with or without headphones) is not the same as what is heard/projected in(to) the room.
Never tried myself, maybe others have tried and can comment:
Radioamateurs use 'throat mics' which might capture some of the sound being produced 'inside' your throat ? Blended with the regular sound might work? No idea, just brainstorming.
Or maybe if you try adding a sensitive close-up directional mic to the side of your throat....?
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Kalle Rantaaho
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Re: Gravel missing from vocals.
2017/04/08 11:27:07
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11Dreams
.
My idea was that I was missing something going into the DAW...
EQ pre daw was the answer. I never messed with anything going in I just hit record...
Thanks for all the ideas!
! 😊
Nice you got it solved, or found a workaround. Though, IMO, that means you're using a mic not suitable for vocals.
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JohanSebatianGremlin
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Re: Gravel missing from vocals.
2017/04/08 13:07:32
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11Dreams
I may have not been clear with my problem. lol
I could hear the rasp in the headphones (monitoring) as recording but it was on the recording.
I have been using ever trick I could think of to add (as I like to call it) sand to the mix but I wanted the gravel of my voice.
I assume you meant it wasn't on the recording. Like I said, you hear yourself differently in your own head than everyone else hears you. This would still be the case when wearing headphones. All these suggestions for adding a touch of distortion or using cheaper mics or better mics etc are all well and good. But none will add gravel to a voice. Tom Waits sounds like that because he sounds like that. You add distortion and you get Tom Waits with distortion. You try a cheaper mic and you get Tom Waits through a cheaper mic. But the reason his voice sounds like Tom Waits is because he's Tom Waits. IOW there is no combination of mic/EQ/processing that's going to allow you record Tom Waits in and get smooth silky Pavarotti-like tones out. Works the same way in the other direction. Can't start with Pavarotti and get Tom.
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Unknowen
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Re: Gravel missing from vocals.
2017/04/08 20:44:47
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Well I'm using my Taylor Swift microphone. With my skinny jeans and wig I thought I could pull it off... ;) Vocals are sounding alot better now! Thanks to all.
Hay look, Somethings are not locked in stone... lol 3/18/2019
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