Grouping or Sub-Mix

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konradh
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2012/07/13 13:19:13 (permalink)

Grouping or Sub-Mix

Running Sonar X1 in 64-bit on Win 64 system with a V-Studio 700.  Question:
 
How does one set up grouping or sub-mixes?
 
Example: 12 harmony voices in a good stereo mix.  I would like to assign those to a single stereo track fader for mixing (and ideally temporarily hide the invidual tracks).  Same concept would apply to drums, string sections, and a number of other things.
 
This was routine back in analog/hardware/24-track days but I have not done this is Sonar.
 
Thanks.
 
 
#1

16 Replies Related Threads

    konradh
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    Re:Grouping or Sub-Mix 2012/07/13 13:26:07 (permalink)
    After writing this it did occur to me that I should clarify something.  I imagine one solution would be to create a bus but because of the way the V-Studio Console works, it would be easier to mix if I had a track fader instead of a bus since the V-S Console basically can be fader or bus but not both at the same time.

    So, this triggers a thought: could I create a track and just route the output of the tracks to be grouped to the new track instead of to the Master Bus?  Seems like that might work.

    Can you route a whole folder instead of routing them 1-by-1.
    #2
    synkrotron
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    Re:Grouping or Sub-Mix 2012/07/13 13:26:51 (permalink)
    Could you not just create a stereo bus for the 12 part harmony and then assign all twelve sliders, plus the stereo bus slider,to a new group... call that group "Harmony" for instance?

    Right click on the sliders and select Group from the context menu.

    I just tried that and it worked for me.


    Ooops... ignore that... I didn't understand the question... sorry.

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    #3
    konradh
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    Re:Grouping or Sub-Mix 2012/07/13 13:29:35 (permalink)
    synkrotron...no worries.  What you said is also interesting.
    #4
    Linear Phase
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    Re:Grouping or Sub-Mix 2012/07/13 13:29:51 (permalink)
    Actually, is this just about......   Creating a group, and hiding the tracks in the group, and using 1 fader to control the volume, whilst the group is hidden?

    I didn't understand the question at first, but is that the question?

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    #5
    synkrotron
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    Re:Grouping or Sub-Mix 2012/07/13 13:32:59 (permalink)
    You don't appear to be able to route a track, or tracks, to another track. Only to buses.

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    #6
    Seth Perlstein [Cakewalk]
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    Re:Grouping or Sub-Mix 2012/07/13 13:34:09 (permalink)
    Definitely route said tracks to a bus. With the VS-700c you can lock a bus (or track) to a fader. IIRC its Command + Select (don't recall but its a combo like that).

    HTH

    SP

    #7
    Linear Phase
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    Re:Grouping or Sub-Mix 2012/07/13 13:34:12 (permalink)
    synkrotron


    You don't appear to be able to route a track, or tracks, to another track. Only to buses.

    That's what I'm thinking, + I haven't been able to figure out how to hide tracks on the mixer...





    too many lasers...






    Sonar = audio editing ninja of a music software!

    #8
    synkrotron
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    Re:Grouping or Sub-Mix 2012/07/13 13:35:09 (permalink)
    Linear Phase


    Actually, is this just about......   Creating a group, and hiding the tracks in the group, and using 1 fader to control the volume, whilst the group is hidden?
    Yep, you could do that, to save you upsetting your harmony mix...


    It is the connection with the VS-700 that I don't fully understand. Nice piece of kit BTW...

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    #9
    synkrotron
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    Re:Grouping or Sub-Mix 2012/07/13 13:40:10 (permalink)
    Linear Phase

    I haven't been able to figure out how to hide tracks on the mixer... 

    What? In Console View? I just right click on the track I want to hide and select "Hide Track." I hope I'm not stating the obvious here??


    Or you can bring up Track Manager by pressing H

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    #10
    Linear Phase
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    Re:Grouping or Sub-Mix 2012/07/13 13:41:33 (permalink)
    synkrotron


    Linear Phase

    I haven't been able to figure out how to hide tracks on the mixer... 

    What? In Console View? I just right click on the track I want to hide and select "Hide Track." I hope I'm not stating the obvious here??


    Or you can bring up Track Manager by pressing H

    That's good.  No worries, not the obvious.  :-)


    Thanks

    too many lasers...






    Sonar = audio editing ninja of a music software!

    #11
    synkrotron
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    Re:Grouping or Sub-Mix 2012/07/13 13:42:42 (permalink)
    Seth Perlstein [Cakewalk
    ]

    Definitely route said tracks to a bus.

    Thanks for confirming that Seth

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    #12
    konradh
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    Re:Grouping or Sub-Mix 2012/07/13 22:53:23 (permalink)
    OK, so route the tracks to a new bus instead of master sounds good--thanks. Outstanding question is how to have a fader on the V-Studio console controlling that bus alongside the other tracks. Example: Faders 1-7 are normal tracks while fader 8 is the new bus. Sounds like Seth is attempting to explain that but I don't 100% follow. Based on what he said, I will dig into the help and manuals. Thanks everyone who replied. Grouping is important for what I do. By the way, although I am having some kind of weird driver issue with the 700 I/O that Sweetwater is trying to figure out with Roland/Cakewalk, I do think the V-Studio set-up is slick. I really like it--especially when you compared the price/features to a Nucleus (altho the Nucleus is very cool).
    #13
    Seth Perlstein [Cakewalk]
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    Re:Grouping or Sub-Mix 2012/07/13 23:33:07 (permalink)
    Konradh,

    Its a feature called Fader Lock. Just Command + Select (I think that's the key combo, might be another key + Select) a track on the Console. You will see an asterisk appear next to the name of the track in the scribble strip when it is locked. This works for tracks and buses.

    SP
    #14
    konradh
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    Re:Grouping or Sub-Mix 2012/07/14 15:37:27 (permalink)
    Thank you, Seth. You are now under the protection of The Mighty Konrad.
    #15
    konradh
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    Re:Grouping or Sub-Mix 2012/07/15 19:55:05 (permalink)
    For anyone who wants to do this, Seth is right but here are the details:

    • Route the tracks to be grouped to a new bus instead of Master (or Main, or whatever your primary bus is).  Example: Create a bus called Harmonies and send all the vocal harmonies there instead of to Master.  (Of course, route the new bus to Master.)
    • Mix the individual tracks the way you want.
    • Switch the V-Studio Console (talking about the hardware, not the Sonar Console view here) to Bus view.
    • Hold down SHIFT and Press Select on the Bus that has the groups. (These are the shift and select buttons on the actual hardware console.)
    • Now when you switch the console back to Track view, the Bus with the grouped faders still shows up on the console and you can hide the individual tracks.
    •  Shift+Select a second time unfreezes the bus and gets it off the console (until you switch back to bus view).

    This technique allows you to have a console with a mix of bus and track faders.  You can have a single fader for drums, one for harmonies, one for the string section, etc. alongside your normal individual faders.  This makes mixing way easier once you have the relative levels set within each group.
    #16
    Seth Perlstein [Cakewalk]
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    Re:Grouping or Sub-Mix 2012/07/16 12:06:58 (permalink)
    Konrad,

    Thanks for posting the detailed description for Fader Lock. And its nice to know the mighty Konrad has my back!

    SP
    #17
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