Guidence on choosing a Virtual Modelled Cabinet?

I think you may not be factoring in that the size of the cabinet itself will affect the sound. So even if you have identical speakers the 1x15 is going to sound different than the 2x15 due to the physical size. Also there is probably going to be a bit of interplay between the speakers so even if you only have one mic on one speaker it will still pick up some sound from the second speaker which will change the tone. With IRs I believe they use actual recordings of real cabinets so all those subtle nuances in theory should be reproduced.
 
As far as picking the right one? Well I've played through a lot of different gear so have a general idea of what something might sound like BUT because I've never been a proper recording engineer (like the guys who meticulously set up mics) the placement, type of mic, extra gear in the chain before and after the cab, etc I don't always know what's going to sound like what when using what. So I still have to just go through things and see what sounds best for what I'm doing.
 
TH2 has been very educational in regards to hearing what certain gear and techniques sound like. I expect I'd be able to translate a lot of the knowledge in an actual hardware based environment.

BTW... the only time I really seem to notice phase issues when goofing around with the cab sim settings in TH2 is when I'm using two mics and start messing with the mic distances. I actually just avoid doing that now because it doesn't really seem to ever make anything sound better for my stuff BUT they have a convenient phase invert button on the cab settings thingie. I'd imagine a REAL recording engineer could use those distance options properly but between the Rear and 45 degree mics and the room settings I can pretty much always get something cool going on with my a/b mics rammed right up close to the cab (which is the default).
 
With the IRs though there is no invert phase option (as far as I can tell) but you should not have to worry about it with the included IRs. I doubt they would include an IR with phase problems. If you just download some from "skeetchyuserpatches.org" (not a real website... I hope) then perhaps you will not be getting the best quality cab sounds and have phase issues.
 
Off topic: Recently I've seen some head to heads of TH2 and Rack11. I've never tried Rack11 but I was kind of impressed with what I heard. Seems like a really REALLY good clone of GR5. Might have to scout out a demo.

Thanks for the replies, though I'm still no wiser , just more aware that cabinet size is also a factor.
 
So I guess it's more along the lines; you want a big sound, more speakers, bigger cab. You want a intimate sound, small cab. As a general rule I mean. I guess I am looking for some geneal rules/ideas to be thinking about when making a choice, rather than blindly switching.

First off I think the best thing to do for now is to just use the Amp + Cab option in TH2 or similar features in other sims. This will give you a "matched" cabinet model for the head you choose. So if you choose one of the Marshall heads it will automatically choose a Marshall cab that suits that head. If you choose the 5150 model it will give you the 5150 cab. The HiWatt a HiWatt cab, etc.
 
When these amps were/are originally released the companies obviously did their best to produce a good cab to go along with the head. By choosing this option in a sim you should get a reasonably authentic sound and you don't have to overthink it. Swapping out cabs is more for tweakers, fiddlers and tone twisters but start with the matched cabs, play around with the other settings (like mic and room) and you'll see how those other options work. Then go hunting around for alternate mix and match stuff if you are feeling adventurous.
 
That said... batsbrew has brought up something very important. Small, even tiny amps, are sometimes much more desirable for live recording. They can be cranked harder (thus pushing the tubes/circuits) without blasting out the walls/mics/input on the mixer/whatever. I actually want to snag a little ten watt tube amp for this type of stuff because there is NO way I could even THINK of having a stack in my current setup and expect to get it loud enough for tracking without having the cops immediately called on me. I can't even turn up my transistor combo amp past 0.3 without it being way too loud for the apartment. Very sad because it is a great sounding amp.
 
In a sim though you don't have to worry about such things because you aren't going to blow anything or get a noise ticket. However the other thing about small amps is they don't have as much of the "woofy/boomy" bottom end of a huge stack that often times is EQ'd out of a mix anyway to make room for the bass/kick drum. So there is something to consider BUT you do also have plenty of options to deal with that even on the larger cab models by way of the dedicated hi/low pass buttons in the cab options. Not really the same as a small amp but it's there.
 
Now I kind of want to take a look at what the smallest cab in TH2 is. lol

batsbrew
REMEMBER,
 a lot of jimmy page's early zeppelin sound,
was done with a tele thru a Supro combo.
 
nothing big about that!
 

Check this out: http://www.gibson.com/en-us/lifestyle/productspotlight/gearandinstruments/10-huge-sounds-recorded-521/ 
 
Rocky

Kamikaze
Cool, thanks for the replies guys, it's given me a better picture on how to approach.
 
I'm loving the Mark Studio on my new Jazzbass. I can see myself setting up a sound from it just to play and record, but once a mix is in place, it provides so much flexibility on changing the sound of mix, so I should just concentrate on getting the lines down at first.  

Mark Studio is really good. The great thing about it is that it has a mix slider so you can mix the dry & amped sounds to taste without necessarily having to set up a bus. 

ward s

bluzdog

batsbrew
REMEMBER,
 a lot of jimmy page's early zeppelin sound,
was done with a tele thru a Supro combo.
 
nothing big about that!
 

Check this out: http://www.gibson.com/en-us/lifestyle/productspotlight/gearandinstruments/10-huge-sounds-recorded-521/ 
 Rocky

Don't forget Zappa and his Pignose.
 

If the early 70's were Zappa's Pignose years then I have to get myself one of those. I always thought his guitar sound was at its peak during that time. 

This is from a 1977 interview...
 
FZ: In the studio most of the stuff is played through a Pignose. I've done all kinds of things with a Pignose; I've taken it and put it in a "live" chamber and taken an (ElectroVoice) RE-20 and stuck it right in front of the Pignose, and that will get one kind of sound. It's actually the sound of an amp, but you can hear that it's in a room, and the room is resonant, so it's a realistic sound. On Zoot Allures about the only thing I used the Vox bottom and the Marshall top for was to get feedback on a song called "Filthy Habits." There's another song called "The Torture Never Stops" where it's just Pignose. Another thing I've done with the Pignose is just put it out in the middle of a dead studio, put two mikes on it, and mike it in stereo. It gets a good sound. Put one mike behind the other so there's a slight spread to it. I've also put the Piguose in an echo chamber and miked it, but not too close, because the echo chamber is real resonant. Since the amplifier isn't real loud, if you put the mike a foot away from the amp, you're going to get a sound that really approaches what you hear in a hockey rink. Anybody who's working in a studio and wants to try this, just tell the engineer to disconnect the speaker cables in the echo chamber and put a plug (phone jack) on the end of the echo send, and plug the echo send into your Pignose. Then you can sit in the control room, plug your guitar directly into the board, send it to the echo chamber on the echo send, and hear yourself coming back - and it sounds like you're in a hockey rink. You can even make it feed back by long distance. I've been using a Pignose for about the last three or four years. I think I started using it the most on Apostrophe, but there is some on Over-Nite Sensation, too.
 
here's the link to the interview...
http://home.online.no/~corneliu/gp77interview.htm
 
w

I've done gigs using a pignose mic'd into the PA or even a spare channel input on the bassist's amp before now - I took to carrying one years ago as an "emergency amp" in case my main amp decided to die at the wrong time. It's also a surprisingly good harmonica amplifier and I know several people who use them for that.

By the way Beepster, if you're looking for a domestic-premises friendly amp 10 watts is about 10 times the power you'll need. Using the same cabinet, a 5 watt amp cranked flat out is about half the volume (in dB) of 50 watts. I've an Epiphone Valve Junior (with Phillips valves and a Jensen speaker) and in the house I rarely open it up more than about a third, at which point it's already pushing 85dBA at a meter.

sharke
I wonder if he used the Pignose for the Montana solo on Overnite Sensation. That is one of my all time favorite guitar solos, along with the one he plays on Inca Roads. 

funny, I was just having that thought about fifty fifty. I bet a dollar he did.
 
Yeah, Inca Roads. I think my first choice is willy the pimp, though. 

tlw
I've done gigs using a pignose mic'd into the PA or even a spare channel input on the bassist's amp before now - I took to carrying one years ago as an "emergency amp" in case my main amp decided to die at the wrong time. It's also a surprisingly good harmonica amplifier and I know several people who use them for that.

By the way Beepster, if you're looking for a domestic-premises friendly amp 10 watts is about 10 times the power you'll need. Using the same cabinet, a 5 watt amp cranked flat out is about half the volume (in dB) of 50 watts. I've an Epiphone Valve Junior (with Phillips valves and a Jensen speaker) and in the house I rarely open it up more than about a third, at which point it's already pushing 85dBA at a meter.

True enough and I know I SHOULD probably be looking more in the 5 watt range but a) I'm concerned that the speaker/housing on those aren't going to throw as well and b) after so many years of playing through stacks and 400w bass amps (yes... on guitar) it weird me out thinking about such "tiny" amps.
 
What I need to do is go try a bunch out at a music store and take over their homerecording area for a while to see how they respond on "tape". I'll have to probably do some sweet talkin' to make that happen. lol
 
"Here... let me drag all these tiny amps over there, and borrow a bunch of mics, and load up whatever DAW you've got installed on your demo machine, and jam out... oh and can I load up these waves I brought from home?"
 
No problem, roight? Heh heh.

Kamikaze
I'm loving the Mark Studio on my new Jazzbass. I can see myself setting up a sound from it just to play and record, but once a mix is in place, it provides so much flexibility on changing the sound of mix, so I should just concentrate on getting the lines down at first.  

My thoughts exactly!  The flexibility to choose between a lot of great tones after the part is recorded is a very cool feature.  As far as choosing cabinet speakers (or really any other variable) - it really is important to just listen to the options and go with what fits that mix the best.  As others have already said, getting a big sound doesn't always translate to the size of the speakers or the initial recorded volume.
 
I was lucky enough to review the Mark Studio a while back for Bass Musician Magazine.  If interested, you can read the review here:  http://bassmusicianmagazine.com/2014/09/mark-studio-2-amplifier-modeling-software-review/

Has anyone used an amp isolation box for recording? Something like this? 
 
http://www.clearsonic.com/amp_isolation.htm

Seems like something that wouldn't be that hard to make yourself, but those ones do look like they're pretty good quality.