Guitar Recording Issue - Records Fine But Plays Back Late

Author
jspizzo
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 10
  • Joined: 2005/01/07 18:54:27
  • Location: Chicago, IL
  • Status: offline
2014/07/11 20:12:02 (permalink)

Guitar Recording Issue - Records Fine But Plays Back Late

Hey, everyone. I'm having a recording issue with my guitar in Music Creator 6. I've used MC6 for plenty of MIDI recording - so I'm somewhat familiar with the program. However, I've tried to lay down a few guitar focused tracks and am having problems.
 
After recording my drums and keyboard (both via MIDI), I recorded my guitar. During the recording, everything sounds fine. However upon playback, the guitar becomes more and more late as the time of the track goes on (it is not longer synced up with everything else). In the short term, this forced me to record my guitar in 20-30 second increments over the course of the whole track... obviously not an ideal, long term solution.
 
Just to make sure I wasn't making a mistake, I ran a test to verify these problems. Using a metronome, I recorded a basic keyboard track playing whole notes for a few minutes. I then recorded a guitar track to match the timing of the keyboard. Again, everything sounded synced up during the recording; but upon playback, the guitar became increasingly late. I am struggling to determine the cause of this (and thus a fix). Here are my current thoughts/ questions on the matter:

   - To my understanding, latency describes the time between playing an instrument and hearing it through the speakers. If this is true, then latency doesn't explain my problem since I don't notice any delays in sound while recording. Is this correct thinking? I'm not an expert on the matter.
   - Will a new (and improved sound card fix the issue? I am planning on getting a new desktop, and I would like to know if I need to buy a separate sound card while I spec it out. I currently have an older computer with an okay (but not great sound card) - before this, I thought it was adequate but perhaps it isn't?
   - Do I need an Audio Interface between the guitar and computer? Currently, I plug my guitar directly into the computer's sound card. My MIDI instruments (keyboard and drums) both plug into the computer via USB so I never considered the need for an Audio Interface. I'm pretty unfamiliar about them so I don't know if they would help address this or not. 
 
Anyway, sorry for the long post - I just wanted to be thorough with my issues. I have looked around and haven't been able to find any similar posts on the matter.
 
If you need any other info, or are unsure of something, feel free to ask away. This problem has me at a loss. Thanks in advance for any insight anybody might have.
 
J
#1

13 Replies Related Threads

    scook
    Forum Host
    • Total Posts : 24146
    • Joined: 2005/07/27 13:43:57
    • Location: TX
    • Status: offline
    Re: Guitar Recording Issue - Records Fine But Plays Back Late 2014/07/11 20:28:42 (permalink)
    This is the kind of issue encountered when using the internal sound chip. A dedicated audio interface designed for DAW use is the solution.
    #2
    jspizzo
    Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 10
    • Joined: 2005/01/07 18:54:27
    • Location: Chicago, IL
    • Status: offline
    Re: Guitar Recording Issue - Records Fine But Plays Back Late 2014/07/11 21:14:52 (permalink)
    Thanks for the quick reply, scook! I totally appreciate it!
     
    I am starting to scope out a new computer (I could use an upgrade on so many fronts). If I get a dedicated audio interface, should I still look into getting a discrete sound card, or will the one included with the motherboard suffice?
     
    Speaking of audio interfaces, are there any you recommend? It looks like I need to do some research on the topic, but I'm always open to hearing more experienced views on the matter.
     
    Thanks again!
    #3
    scook
    Forum Host
    • Total Posts : 24146
    • Joined: 2005/07/27 13:43:57
    • Location: TX
    • Status: offline
    Re: Guitar Recording Issue - Records Fine But Plays Back Late 2014/07/11 22:51:54 (permalink)
    Depends on your requirements and the budget. The number and type of inputs is the first consideration. I would guess you can get by with a 2 input unit, at least one instrument input (AKA HI-Z input) and one microphone input, no MIDI. The least expensive options that work are USB connected interfaces. Make sure the new computer has at least one USB 2.0 port unless you are sure the audio interface will work on a USB 3.0 port. The sound chip on the mohterboard is not adequate. Internal sound cards designed for DAW use start at the high side of $500 so without knowing your budget I'll skip that option. There are popular USB interfaces starting at around $150, for example http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Scarlett2i2/ Personally I do use USB powered devices so the Scarlett2i2 is not for me but many people have no problem using USB powered interfaces. I mention this unit as a starting point for your research and to give an idea of a starting budget.
     
    #4
    RobertB
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 11256
    • Joined: 2005/11/19 23:40:50
    • Location: Fort Worth, Texas
    • Status: offline
    Re: Guitar Recording Issue - Records Fine But Plays Back Late 2014/07/12 00:07:23 (permalink)
    +1 to what scook wrote.
    Just a few supplemental notes:
    Don't be tempted by anything Lexicon. They are cheap for a reason. They are USB1, and at best, are capable of almost tolerable latency.
    I have limited faith in USB power. That power is limited, it is shared, and it only goes so far. Underpowered devices can exhibit some very strange behavior.
    I have numerous devices that communicate via USB, but they all have external power.
    Don't underestimate what you really need. The price difference between "get by" and "this is just what I needed" is probably minimal.
    There are a number of decent units in the $200-300 range.
    I have to suggest you at least look at the Akai EIEPro.
    Early reviews were accurate, as the original drivers sucked, but the current drivers rock. The front panel offers great control for recording guitar. And I like the integrated USB bus.
    M-Audio has recently released a clone of it(minus the VU meters).
    I do like the midrange Scarlett units as well, but the Akai has some way cool stuff going on.
    Weigh your options, and look for a good fit.

    My Soundclick Page
    SONAR Professional, X3eStudio,W7 64bit, AMD Athlon IIx4 2.8Ghz, 4GB RAM, 64bit, AKAI EIE Pro, Nektar Impact LX61,Alesis DM6,Alesis ControlPad,Yamaha MG10/2,Alesis M1Mk2 monitors,Samson Servo300,assorted guitars,Lava Lamp

    Shimozu-Kushiari or Bob
    #5
    Guitarhacker
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 24398
    • Joined: 2007/12/07 12:51:18
    • Location: NC
    • Status: offline
    Re: Guitar Recording Issue - Records Fine But Plays Back Late 2014/07/12 08:33:11 (permalink)
    Buying a new computer won't solve the problem. You still end up with a crappy soundcard chip and MME drivers.
     
    Spend the money for a dedicated, external USB interface running ASIO drivers. Presonus, Focusrite, M-Audio... to name a few brands are a good place to start looking.

    My website & music: www.herbhartley.com

    MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW   
    Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface


    BMI/NSAI

    "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer 
    #6
    57Gregy
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 14404
    • Joined: 2004/05/31 17:04:17
    • Location: Raleigh, North Carolina
    • Status: offline
    Re: Guitar Recording Issue - Records Fine But Plays Back Late 2014/07/12 09:47:47 (permalink)
    On point, the problem you're experiencing now is due to a sampling rate mismatch between your sound card and Music Creator.
    The sound card is probably set to 48,000 Hz @ 16-bit and MC is probably 41,100 Hz @ 16-bit. Set them so they match.
    And I've entered your name in the "longest time between joining the forum and first post" drawing.

    Greg 
    I am selling my MIM Fender Stratocaster HSS, red and black. PM for more details.

    Music Creator 2003, MC Pro 24, SONAR Home Studio 6 XL, SONAR  X3e, CbB, Focusrite Saffire, not enough space.
    Everything is better with pie. 

    http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=609446
    http://www.reverbnation.com/#!/gregfields 
    #7
    jspizzo
    Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 10
    • Joined: 2005/01/07 18:54:27
    • Location: Chicago, IL
    • Status: offline
    Re: Guitar Recording Issue - Records Fine But Plays Back Late 2014/07/12 12:33:36 (permalink)
    Wow – thank you so much for all the input, guys! I will start looking into audio interfaces, but your suggestions definitely give me a leg up on my search. As for a budget, I personally don’t like to set them until I have a better handle on my options. I’m not looking to spend a crazy amount, but at the same time, I don’t want to go cheap and run into problems because of it. I guess it’s always a matter of toeing the line between affordability and function. Either way, I have been given plenty of suggestions to push me in the right direction.
     
    I will look to into changing my soundcard’s sample rate. Maybe that will be a nice temporary fix and address the delay on my current setup. Still, I plan on getting a new computer – that is something I need to get for other reasons. However, I want to make sure the setup on the new computer won’t have these same problems (and it’s always nice to identify areas that can be improved). Thankfully, with everybody’s input here, I am getting a better idea on how to move forward.
     
    Just like with audio interfaces, I’m sure there are countless options with sound cards. In general, are there particular specs (or brands) that I should keep in mind while shopping around?
    #8
    scook
    Forum Host
    • Total Posts : 24146
    • Joined: 2005/07/27 13:43:57
    • Location: TX
    • Status: offline
    Re: Guitar Recording Issue - Records Fine But Plays Back Late 2014/07/12 12:48:25 (permalink)
    When working with a DAW only the audio interface matters. It is the sound card handing both input from your instrument and microphones and output to your headphones and speaker. The audio interface can completely replace the internal sound chip for all application sound. Alternately, the internal chip can be used for all other applications and use the audio interface only for your DAW application. I suppose the internal chip could be replaced by an additional sound card if there were a home theater or gaming requirement for surround sound. Currently I use my audio interface for all application audio but have in the past ran surround sound off the internal chip and DAW audio through my dedicated audio interface.
    #9
    jspizzo
    Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 10
    • Joined: 2005/01/07 18:54:27
    • Location: Chicago, IL
    • Status: offline
    Re: Guitar Recording Issue - Records Fine But Plays Back Late 2014/07/12 13:51:56 (permalink)
    Gotcha... I was wondering if the audio interface would replace the need for getting an additional sound card on top of the built in chip on the motherboard. Sounds like it does. 
     
    One less thing to buy - now I can focus on getting the right audio interface. Thanks again, scook!
    #10
    Beagle
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 50621
    • Joined: 2006/03/29 11:03:12
    • Location: Fort Worth, TX
    • Status: offline
    Re: Guitar Recording Issue - Records Fine But Plays Back Late 2014/07/14 16:17:23 (permalink)
    think of the "audio interface" and "soundcard" as the same thing (because they are! - BOTH are "soundcards")
     
    you do NOT need a soundcard AND an audio interface, you only need the "audio interface" which will convert from A/D and D/A with the inputs and outputs you think you will need, and with low latency ASIO drivers.
     
    the onboard soundchip on ALL computers is insufficient.  but a soundcard with mic and line inputs and a couple of line outputs plus a digital I/O (USB2 or Firewire...etc). is what you need.

    http://soundcloud.com/beaglesound/sets/featured-songs-1
    i7, 16G DDR3, Win10x64, MOTU Ultralite Hybrid MK3
    Yamaha MOXF6, Hammond XK3c, other stuff.
    #11
    jspizzo
    Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 10
    • Joined: 2005/01/07 18:54:27
    • Location: Chicago, IL
    • Status: offline
    Re: Guitar Recording Issue - Records Fine But Plays Back Late 2014/07/14 16:57:58 (permalink)
    Just to follow up on 57Gregy’s comment, I changed my MC project sample rate to 48,000 Hz (from 44,100 Hz) and did a few test recordings. This time around, there weren’t any issues with the guitar not syncing up during playback. It looks like that was the underlying issue.
     
    I still plan on getting an Audio Interface moving forward – however, I wanted to relay what I found out with respect to the sampling rate in case somebody else has the same problem in the future. 
    #12
    Guitarhacker
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 24398
    • Joined: 2007/12/07 12:51:18
    • Location: NC
    • Status: offline
    Re: Guitar Recording Issue - Records Fine But Plays Back Late 2014/07/14 20:27:24 (permalink)
    USB interfaces work fine..... just don't buy a USB mic and expect that to work fine, because it generally doesn't.

    My website & music: www.herbhartley.com

    MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW   
    Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface


    BMI/NSAI

    "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer 
    #13
    Beagle
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 50621
    • Joined: 2006/03/29 11:03:12
    • Location: Fort Worth, TX
    • Status: offline
    Re: Guitar Recording Issue - Records Fine But Plays Back Late 2014/07/15 12:02:58 (permalink)
    yes, if you have a mismatch in sampling rate, even a new audio interface will not solve that problem!

    http://soundcloud.com/beaglesound/sets/featured-songs-1
    i7, 16G DDR3, Win10x64, MOTU Ultralite Hybrid MK3
    Yamaha MOXF6, Hammond XK3c, other stuff.
    #14
    Jump to:
    © 2024 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1