Guitar Rig 5...

 Nice Spacey....I want it but if I get it I'll be twiddling pretend knobs for days.I have GR 4 which I  like for a lot of material.GR 5 must be better right?

spacey
Since you like 4, yep, 5 is better :)

20% to 40% 25% better.

 
(Of course, it's only a 20% downgrade from 5 to 4.  )

Danny - Did you try placing this guy in your signal chain?
http://wavearts.com/products/plugins/tube/
 
I'd be curious to hear your thoughts about it - you have a much better educated ear for those things than I do.

GR5 is great, I don't know what effects you get with it since I have Komplete Ultimate which obviously bundles a lot more effects in there, but you can get some great effect chains going for use on anything, not just guitar. 
 
Just don't use too many of those Reflektor reverbs, they're a real CPU hog. 

Rain
Danny - Did you try placing this guy in your signal chain?
http://wavearts.com/products/plugins/tube/
 
I'd be curious to hear your thoughts about it - you have a much better educated ear for those things than I do.

Hi Rain,
 
Uggh, yes I did quite a while ago. That plug has got to be the worst CPU hog of all time as far as regular VST's go that just do one thing. The sound....well, to me, it's dirty digital distortion....you know, that "digital clipping" sound. It doesn't sound like a tube amp to me. At least not a tube amp I've ever tried. See man, when tubes break up, it's not this sound that digital modelers are showing you today. It's nothing remotely close in my experience. When tubes drive, they saturate to where they enhance a sound and complete it and make it pleasant due to rounding off the high end edges. It's not supposed to sound like digital clipping type distortion.
 
I didn't think the Wave Arts was anything different than the other companies claiming to have cracked the tube sound. I just fired it up while typing this to see if my opinion of it was the same. Yep, I still don't think it's anyting to brag about. However, it DOES have a tube character....it just seems to break up and sound bad. Like for example, the pinch harms I was talking about before...it sounds authentic while doing those, but the actual sound of the plug is bad. Ever turn a channel up too loud in Logic where it clips? That's what this plug sounds like to me when you jump on the gain knob. It only warms things up due to the onboard eq it has....the drive knob is sort of useless as it just gives me a sound that makes me cringe. But used VERY moderately, it does have a tube timbre to it. In a guitar chain or with another guitar VST...it sounds absolutely horrible an your cpu will spike through the roof at 64 buffers. Just my take though bro.
 
-Danny

By the way...was just trying all my guitar sim plugs...that Peavey Revalver MKIII is pretty sweet Rain. Loads of tube tweaks in it that I never even saw before...whew....I gotta spend some time with this baby. It's really impressive at some things.

I like GR5 I use it for many things.

Mike I've used Guitar Rig since 3 and used it for almost every project with Jeff and
never had issues. Isn't it funny how all this stuff seems to work different for folks?
 
All the trouble I had was with Line 6 Ux2- I think that is what it was called- Steve knows lol I sent
it to him. Works fine for some but sucked for me. Weird stuff.
 

I sure don't know about how computers/programs process stuff like that but
it sounds like Pro Tools does. I know of only one way to find out. I do know that
the demonstration they show of the multi-core processors being used sure looks
like it's using the thing much better than what I'm seeing mine doing.
 
For somebody like me it's much like walking down the midway of a carnaval...I may not
know how they're doing everything but I know it's a carnaval and I'm suppose to be having
fun while they get my cash....and that part has been missing.

mike_mccue
 
 
Guitar Rig is one of those programs that requires varying rates of latency compensation management.
Many efx require latency compensation but the requirement remains fixed as you use the app. With Guitar Rig the need seems to change with the patches you use or the efx settings you punch in or automate.
 
I have found that changing patches in Guitar Rig on a loaded project makes my projects timing seem fragile.
 
"Fragile" is that state that you may be able to recognize just before you get to timing problems or worse (think lock up and crash)
 
So, I am very cautious when I fool around with Guitar Rig.
 
It's fun to jam with but it gets sketchy if you try to enjoy all of its features in a fully loaded project.
 
 
best regards,
mike

That's been my experience as well and it seems to be with NI stuff in general. No matter what PC I'm using or how much horsepower it may have, all NI stuff has to be tracked as early as possible in the project or you definitely get timing issues. During my tests, it appears to be the effects that NI uses that can cripple us. The good news is, I really don't think any of them are out of this world enough to use unless you are looking for a specific sound and happen to find it via preset.
 
For example, any of the NI Studio drummer kits will cripple you in real time if you try to play the things at low latency with their effects in place on each drum. As soon as you kill their effects that are running, bang...you have a kit you can play at just about any time in your project. But God forbid you try to record something using one of those kits loaded with effects in real time once you have gotten deep into your project with processing. It just ain't gonna happen...at least not on my end. And, it matters not whether I use 64 bit with a load of ram or not. They just don't have their latency stuff together in my opinion.
 
The same with GR5. Try bringing it into a project that is already in the works with full production. If you are not careful and use a patch loaded with their effects while recording in real time, it will bring your system to its knee's in a snap. So at low latency in real time, all the NI stuff can use a fix in my opinion. At higher latency settings, I have no problems and usually run my mixes at 2048 ASIO buffers once the stuff is recorded. But at 64 and sometimes 128 buuffers for real time playing...Kontakt or GR5 will just smack me down. Kill the effects, they're fine.
 
That said, it really is a killer plug. This thread has made me revisit all the guitar sims I own including older versions of some of the ones I've beta tested and developed. I can honestly say I think they all have a place. Some guys aren't concerned with tube type tones. There are some great tranny-sounding plugs out there that deliver the goods. Heck, I got some awesome sounds out of the first Revalver that used to come with Cakewalk...remember that? LOL! But there is something about GR5 to me that just delivers tone the way I feel it and hear it on an amp. Not all the GR5 sounds are good mind you, but there are a few that just make me scratch my head due to the realism and feel.
 
IK's stuff is no slouch either. I was messing with all the plugs I have by them last night too. Some of it is really convincing when you sit with it and tweak it a bit. The one that really floored me though was that Revalver MKIII. I don't know what version they are up to now...but wow....the whole "create your own custom tube" thing is awesome as well as easy to use. We have that in our ABG stuff, but it's much easier to use in Revalver in my opinion. I never even knew that option existed in MKIII.
 
Anyway, for what it's worth....the loser of the guitar sim contest for me was the Waves GR stuff. Ugggh....I got better sounds out of my old Crate when I was 12!
 
-Danny

The in built mixer in the NI Drummer libraries is ridiculous on the CPU. There's something funny going on there because if put those same effects in the chain standalone (Transient Master, Solid EQ etc), the CPU barely notices them. Turn on the same effects in the Drummer mixers and my first core is spiking into the red. It's not sharing the load across the cores (even though I believe there is a setting in Kontakt to tell it to).

I have always been a pretty die hard tube guy.  Up until recently, I was pretty down on the Sims; I just could never get a really good tone out of them, nothing like that natural tube tone.  The only time that I get to work on music though, is either late at night when everyone else has gone to bed, early in the morning before anyone has gotten up, or the occasional rare circumstances when I happen to have the house to myself.  Needless to say, I started looking into Pods and demoing the Sims again as of late.  Much to my surprise, many of them have really come a long way.
 
I have Pod Farm 2.5 and can usually get a workable tone out of it, sometimes it sits just right in a mix and sometimes it just doesn't cut it.  Several months ago I bought S-Gear after demoing it until my time ran out.  I really like the touch and dynamics that I can get with S-Gear.  I had the Custom Shop version of Amplitube lying around, but had n't really used it much.  When the Summer Sales came out, I decided to try the Fender Collection for 72 hrs.  Well, they were pretty nice and darned convincing, so I bought Fender.  The I tried the Hendrix and Slash Collections on the next Summer Sale and really liked some of the Hendrix amps, not as thrilled with the Slash.  Somehow I managed to resist buying Hendrix.  I didn't dare try the Ampeg bass stuff; I was sure that I would end up picking up the Ampeg Collection if I tried it, just on all the feedback I have seen at these forums.  I thought I was done.  Then for what ever reason, one evening I started demoing some of the other amps at IK.  I came across some REALLY nice stuff.  When I tried out one of the Orange amps, I was in pure crunch blues heaven.  Darn it if I didn't have to by that Orange Collection as well.  I really liked the JMP Marshall, the Solando, and the Marshall JCM900 as well.  I have to quit for now though, or I am going to fall into another plug addiction.  What I did notice about the IK Sims, compared to the others that I have demoed, it seems like I could stack up several tracks of them and not have the timing issues that I have had with others.
 
One of the biggest problems that I see with the Sims, as compared to being a real amp guy, who like to just twiddle with a few knobs and play....there are too many choices.  I found myself just flipping from amp to amp, from effects to effects and killing hours; with out ever really accomplishing any of my goals.  I find the Sims work best for me if I kind of treat them like a real amp, as in, this is all I have to work with for now and work on fine tuning the sound for that amp.  Otherwise, its to many options.

MakeShift
One of the biggest problems that I see with the Sims, as compared to being a real amp guy, who like to just twiddle with a few knobs and play....there are too many choices.  I found myself just flipping from amp to amp, from effects to effects and killing hours; with out ever really accomplishing any of my goals.  I find the Sims work best for me if I kind of treat them like a real amp, as in, this is all I have to work with for now and work on fine tuning the sound for that amp.  Otherwise, its to many options.

Totally agree, Mike. This is huge really...but depends on what type of sound you're looking for. Most of the classic rock type sounds, you can treat like an amp..maybe add a boost of something or a tube screamer. The more processed type tones are not as easy, so when you're in a situation where you have to "create" or "build" a tone like that, man, it really can be time consuming and a complete downer. That's one of the problems I have always had my entire life. I was just never happy with the sound of an amp by itself. I always felt the need to "create" a sound that complimented my playing....and with that, always came hours worth of trial, error and tedious tone chasing experimentation.
 
That AxFxII is off the hook. Definitely the most innovative and powerful pre-amp ever created in my opinion. BUT....you need about 6 months to learn all the stuff it can do. You're totally overwhelmed to the point of Steve Vai admitting it was a bit much for him. Not many tweakers around like Vai...so you know it's nuts. The good thing is, there are free libraries of user sounds you can just patch right into and then tweak. So not all is lost. But...you know me, none of them do anything for me, so I'm stuck creating again. It's cool though...especially if you like that kinda thing. For a guy like you that may not have much time to tweak around with a tone, it's a nightmare. For a guy like me that sort of likes the whole geeky tone chasing thing, it's still a nightmare, but one that's tolerable.
 
This really holds true with all the sim software as well. You can just grab an amp and twist the knobs...or you can get in deep with it and add modules, stomps and anything else. I think it's cool we have this stuff available especially since everyone will have their own reasons and use for this stuff. At the end of the day, it's nice to have the option to NOT have to totally commit something to disc that is destructively recorded along with having all these additional options. :)
 
-Danny

I guess the thing I didn't really get around to saying much about is that many of these Sims have gotten really good sounding. I amp not having as many issues with the playing dynamics that I used to and, I guess what I would call the lack of sustain.

The AxFx is a little out of my price range right now, but I have been really intested in the new Pod HD's. I only wish someone had them to demo. I hate to dump that kind of money into hardware without physically playing one. If these units were good enough, I could seriously see myself leaving tubes behind.