Helpful ReplyGuitar shredding with no practise (SONAR tweaks - now explained)

Author
vdd
Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 92
  • Joined: 2014/12/22 17:26:14
  • Status: offline
2016/10/29 18:15:44 (permalink)

Guitar shredding with no practise (SONAR tweaks - now explained)

Hi everybody, this post is about how to create a metal-riff, if you are not able to play guitar at all (less than a week of exercises).
To reach this goal I combined a lot of ideas and processes I learned the last couple of month here in the forum. I hope that it will be inspiration for someone and also I hope to get some feedback/tips of how to do it even better.
 
The first track is the original recording.
https://soundcloud.com/drvdd/demo-mettttal-original-stuporous-record
The second track is EXACTLY the same recording after some tweaking in SONAR.
https://soundcloud.com/drvdd/demo-mettttal-processed
 
If you like the result please let me know. Tomorrow it should be raining, which means I could write a little tutorial. But if it is boring…
post edited by vdd - 2016/11/02 19:21:15

S-Plat x64 / i7-4790-3.60GHZ, 32GB RAM, Win 7 x64, Akai MPC Studio, Arturia Microbrute, Doepfer A-100, VTB-1, RME HDSPe
#1
Guitarhacker
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 24398
  • Joined: 2007/12/07 12:51:18
  • Location: NC
  • Status: offline
Re: Guitar shredding with no practise (SONAR tweaks) 2016/10/31 21:32:15 (permalink)
That's cool. I'm curious.
 
 

My website & music: www.herbhartley.com

MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW   
Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface


BMI/NSAI

"Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer 
#2
brandonc
Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 65
  • Joined: 2015/08/27 23:01:04
  • Status: offline
Re: Guitar shredding with no practise (SONAR tweaks) 2016/11/01 19:10:08 (permalink)
me too!
 
#3
paradoxx@optonline.net
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 49
  • Joined: 2014/12/26 21:23:54
  • Location: New York
  • Status: offline
Re: Guitar shredding with no practise (SONAR tweaks) 2016/11/01 19:14:06 (permalink)
yup
 
#4
ricoskyl
Max Output Level: -84 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 327
  • Joined: 2015/03/15 13:19:05
  • Location: Clarkston, MI USofA
  • Status: offline
Re: Guitar shredding with no practise (SONAR tweaks) 2016/11/01 19:55:20 (permalink)
Yeah, I heard I few things that I thought were really intriguing.  Tell more!

If you want to make enemies, try to change something. -Woodrow T. Wilson
Turbulence is a life force. It is opportunity. Let’s love turbulence and use it for change. -Ramsay Clark
----------------------
Sonar Platinum Win 10 x64 on HP Pavilion i7 5500 12Gb RAM, Tascam US-16x08, NVidia 840 8Gb vram, Multi-Screen, Multi-Touch
#5
ricoskyl
Max Output Level: -84 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 327
  • Joined: 2015/03/15 13:19:05
  • Location: Clarkston, MI USofA
  • Status: offline
Re: Guitar shredding with no practise (SONAR tweaks) 2016/11/01 19:55:25 (permalink)
Yeah, I heard I few things that I thought were really intriguing.  Tell more!

If you want to make enemies, try to change something. -Woodrow T. Wilson
Turbulence is a life force. It is opportunity. Let’s love turbulence and use it for change. -Ramsay Clark
----------------------
Sonar Platinum Win 10 x64 on HP Pavilion i7 5500 12Gb RAM, Tascam US-16x08, NVidia 840 8Gb vram, Multi-Screen, Multi-Touch
#6
vdd
Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 92
  • Joined: 2014/12/22 17:26:14
  • Status: offline
Re: Guitar shredding with no practise (SONAR tweaks) 2016/11/02 18:40:24 (permalink)
Like I pointed out in the first post, this technique has the „bad“ guitar player in mind. But I am sure that some of the ideas useful for real guitarists, too.
Let's begin with some theory: If you modify audio files, this task will create artifacts. Some actions like time-stretching will let the computer guess information which will sound unnatural, other ones will have an impact to harmonics and formants – like pitch shifting. The human ear is trained to hear tiny differences in a voice, so processing a human voice is one of the greatest challenges at all. You can easily identify a formant change – especially for known natural sources. What’s about an electric guitar? If you are watching shoot-outs between valve amps vs. modeled amps, you will get an idea about how well a guitarist’s ear is trained…
Let us think about the nature of a recorded electric guitar sound. It is the combination of:
  • Guitar
  • Amp
  • Loudspeaker
  • Room
  • Microphone
  • Preamp
  • Etc.
There are even more things with an impact to the sound like
  • Pickups
  • Pleks
  • Strings
  • Cables
  • Stomp boxes
It looks like a puzzle, but it is more like a process chain. The whole stack defines the resulting sound.
As a synth-guy I am thinking about the guitar as a mighty controller over pitch, envelope, and tone – my VCO. A hard driven amp adds harmonics and works a little bit like a Buchla Waveshaper. The cabinet is like a bandpass gate – cancelling out deep bass and harsh high frequencies. The mic and preamp are additional filters, which allow the user to change the overall frequency spectrum of the signal by placing the mic right. All the other gear is like additional Eurorack modules – nice to have and a great business opportunity for companies.
 If you ever dealt with a modular synth you know that you can compensate a weak but stable VCO. If the other components are weak you are in trouble. This idea in mind, let us start with the practice:
 
Recording of the guitar signal:
 
You need the clean D.I. signal of your guitar, because you want the information about pitch,the envelope and the tone. This signal has the lowest amount of harmonics or formants. There are some formants for sure, they define the different sound of guitar models, but this post is not about Jazz… Every step later in the process chain will add up with challenges at the tweaking activities. Essentially, it is the characteristic attach phase followed by a sinus-like signal.
If you are recording straight into the DAW via HiZ you have the signal already. If not, use a D.I. box in order to record the clean guitar signal and use re-amping later (always a good idea).
 
The first demo track was recorded at my personal maximum tightness and speed – meaning eights notes at 50 BPM. Even for Doom Metal way to slow. If you believe it or not, I used a metronome ;) https://soundcloud.com/drvdd/demo-mettttal-original-stuporous-record
 
Get the timing right:
 
The D.I. signal of a palm muted guitar is great for Audio-Snap. Strong transients, short signal length and clear separation from the next event. Select your track, go to the Inspector (key I) and select Clip. Then select AudioSnap and enable it. Select the high quality offline rendering and “follow project tempo”. Within the clip the transients should be marked with lines. Press Q to open the  quantize options and quantize everything by say 95%. Not too much, otherwise it will sound too much machinegun-like.
Now the speed: Change the project tempo. I went from 50 BPM to 220 BPM (!). If you listen to the processed track, I am quite sure that you are not able hear artifacts, because it only affects the first stage of the signal process chain. Remember: Only the D.I. signal were increased by the tempo change - the amp sim will simulate like before.
 
Create the riff
 
Like I wrote, I am not able to utilize the left hand properly, because the lack of training. To create the riff, the next tool will be Melodyne (the essential version is just fine). Bounce the Audiosnap-clip in order to have a clip which can be used in Melodyne.
In Melodyne you will see all the events as blobs. They should be all at the same note, d in my case (Drop-D tuning). If Melodyne put them to different octaves, fix the note identification. Now it is time to change the pitches of single events. You can go as wide as two octaves before the artifacts will be audible at the end of the signal chain. I went for one octave in the demo clip. Don’t think about how you would play it in practice – this will be the challenge for Cover bands!
Beware that the quality is not optimal until you render the Melodyne clip to an audio clip!
 
Amping and EQ
 
To get a thicker sound, duplicate the clip you created into another track. Than use an amp sim like TH3 with two different amp models and pan the tracks hard left and right. You can enhance the sound, if you identify the sweet spots of each model and increase that frequency by 3db and lower the same frequency on the other track by 3db. It doesn’t destroy the sound of each individual track but creates a great difference between the tracks. 3dB+3dB = double signal level…
If you are using a real amp, now it is time to use your re-amping box to inject the signal into your full stack.
 
The Bass
 
Take the clip and copy it onto a MIDI track. Because it is a D.I. signal the resulting MIDI notes are pretty accurate. Delete some of the notes and put a virtual bass vst onto the track. Tweak the sound with TH3 until it fits to the guitar tracks and you are ready to go.
 
Result:
https://soundcloud.com/drvdd/demo-mettttal-processed
 
Conclusion:
The way described is useful, if you have to deal with heavy distorted guitar sounds. The cleaner the sound is, the more impact artifacts from time correction and pitch shifting will have.
Instead of simply doubling a clip it is way cooler to use a different part of the original recording and do the same tweaks on different source material. There will be differences in timing and tonality which results in a much richer sound – it is like two independently recorded takes.
 
If you have ideas to improve this way to record and tweak (rhythm) guitars, I would be glad to read about it.   

S-Plat x64 / i7-4790-3.60GHZ, 32GB RAM, Win 7 x64, Akai MPC Studio, Arturia Microbrute, Doepfer A-100, VTB-1, RME HDSPe
#7
Mosvalve
Max Output Level: -67 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 1194
  • Joined: 2009/11/20 20:49:33
  • Location: New Jersey
  • Status: offline
Re: Guitar shredding with no practise (SONAR tweaks) 2016/11/02 19:13:18 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby stevesweat 2016/11/03 09:45:19
I think it would be easier to learn the guitar.

BobV 
 
 
 
ASUS Prime Z370-P - Intel Core i7+ 8700K 3.7GHZ 16GB Memory, Intel HD Graphics 630 GPU,  Windows 10 Pro 64bit,  , Sonar Platinum 64bit, Motu 828MK3 Hybrid, Warm Audio TB12 Pre, Warm Audio WA273 Pre, AEA RPQ 500 Pre, Warm Audio WA76 Compressor, Presonus D8 Pre, Tonelux EQ5P 500 Eq, Kush Electra 500 Eq, Lindell PEX 500 Eq, Yamaha 80M monitors with HS10W Sub,  and a bunch of other good stuff. I have a Roland Juno-106 that's looking for a new home. PM me.
#8
vdd
Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 92
  • Joined: 2014/12/22 17:26:14
  • Status: offline
Re: Guitar shredding with no practise (SONAR tweaks) 2016/11/02 19:23:47 (permalink)
Mosvalve
I think it would be easier to learn the guitar.


Yes, that would be even better! But I am not sure if it is easier. I will tell you in 5-10 years...

S-Plat x64 / i7-4790-3.60GHZ, 32GB RAM, Win 7 x64, Akai MPC Studio, Arturia Microbrute, Doepfer A-100, VTB-1, RME HDSPe
#9
Mosvalve
Max Output Level: -67 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 1194
  • Joined: 2009/11/20 20:49:33
  • Location: New Jersey
  • Status: offline
Re: Guitar shredding with no practise (SONAR tweaks) 2016/11/02 20:05:37 (permalink)
vdd
Mosvalve
I think it would be easier to learn the guitar.


Yes, that would be even better! But I am not sure if it is easier. I will tell you in 5-10 years...


One year tops you'll be shredding with the best of them. Practice, Practice, Practice

BobV 
 
 
 
ASUS Prime Z370-P - Intel Core i7+ 8700K 3.7GHZ 16GB Memory, Intel HD Graphics 630 GPU,  Windows 10 Pro 64bit,  , Sonar Platinum 64bit, Motu 828MK3 Hybrid, Warm Audio TB12 Pre, Warm Audio WA273 Pre, AEA RPQ 500 Pre, Warm Audio WA76 Compressor, Presonus D8 Pre, Tonelux EQ5P 500 Eq, Kush Electra 500 Eq, Lindell PEX 500 Eq, Yamaha 80M monitors with HS10W Sub,  and a bunch of other good stuff. I have a Roland Juno-106 that's looking for a new home. PM me.
#10
Jump to:
© 2024 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1