Guitar sound Lacks Substance

It's hard to diagnose these things from a text description... do you have any way of posting an example on-line?

I think you would have better luck with the same post accompanied by an audio example in the "Songs" forum.

i know it sounds cliche...
and i'm ok with that.

try micing a real amp, for real tone.

i've gone the pod route....
and never found it satisfactory.
tried the pod pro....
same with virtual rigs, and plug-ins.....


i even ran a pod XT into a tube amp, and miced that, and it still wasn't quite the same thing.

sometimes, it's just easier to cut to the chase.

batsbrew


i know it sounds cliche...
and i'm ok with that.

try micing a real amp, for real tone.

i've gone the pod route....
and never found it satisfactory.
tried the pod pro....
same with virtual rigs, and plug-ins.....


i even ran a pod XT into a tube amp, and miced that, and it still wasn't quite the same thing.

sometimes, it's just easier to cut to the chase.

Hi Batsbrew,
Yes I know exactly what you mean here, but,wife ,kids,neighbours know what I mean !!  

Don't most people double, triple, quadruple their guitar tracks anyhow these days?
I know that may depend on what guitar sound you're looking for.
The sex pistols had 26 guitar tracks on Never Mind the Bollox,
that was mainy because they thought not using them equated to not getting their moneys worth

Steve

hey.. I have the same problem... While I am recording, the guitar tone sounds killer, but on playback it just does not have that same "tone' to it. And this is without any effects on the track such as eq, compression or anything. And no other tracks recorded. It is hard to explain, and even posting a sample would not explain it, as one would need to hear the tone while recording to hear the difference.
    I am thinking maybe even though there is no eq on the track, that the freq. are still being affected by no eq..

I have been using podfarm, guitar rig 4, and some other software with same results. I used to have a gn3, and some of the tones sounded ok recorded, but most same results... it just does not have that same "bite' of sound.. if that makes sense.

daveny5

I'm using a V-Studio 20,so sound card wise should be ok ?

I'd say so. What guitar do you have?

I have two main guitars a Strat,and a Hagstrom 200P.Also it's not a Pod farm, but a Line 6 Version 2.0 (but a decent bit of kit I think) ?

I remember seeing a video of David Gilmour laying down some guitar track in the studio... Not Floyd stuff...  and remember thinking the guitar tone sounded poor.  The minute the recorded part was played back with the rest of the tune it sounded great!
 
I could be completely wrong on this, so apologies if i'm way of base but...
 
Are you setting up what you think is a great tone with just your guitar and POD / Guitar Rig, etc?  Or are you building the tone with the rest of the track?
 
Sometimes, when i'm recording a guitar track I think i'll have nailed a great tone.  At least I think it's great until I mix it in witht the rest of the tune at which point it can either sound weak or woolly or just be to dominant.  Other things can come to light too.  I had an effect on the guitar that I though sounded fantastic... Nice and thick!  As soon as I put it in the track the guitar sounded out of tune.  The solution was to really scale back the offending effect.
 
I'm not too sure Sonar is changing anything.  I think it's purely an eq thing.  Better to get the eq right before hitting record rather than trying to fix it later.
 
One thing i've found with all these modelling approaches (I've owned the POD 2.0, XT and X3 and the BOSS GT-10) is that whilst the actual Pre-Amp models sound excellent (For the most part), it's the speaker emulation that's the weakness.
 
I know whaqt you mean about neighbours, etc when it comes to recording a real amp.  That's why I went with modellers for so long.  My solution has been just to use a low powered amp - running the GT-10 into the fx return jack so I can mic up a real 12" speaker.  I may get a little 5 watt tube amp at some point.  I'm hoping i'll be able to get real amp tones at a decent recording level.
 
For me, modellers just don't quite cut it anymore.  But i've no idea if it's an eq thing or what you're using that's causing your issues.

Jwh, its probably your recording technique. Try and get the best sound you can before it gets printed in sonar. So you will be recording what you hear. If you dotn hear a good soudn, then you cant record a good sound.

Here are some tips ive used in the past: 
 
You first need to start with a decent sounding guitar tone. If the distortion sounds thin and buzzy, then you need to fix that first and foremost. Its much easier to get a big guitar sound form a sound source that sounds good to begin with. Crap in equals crap out. No matter what you do with it.
 
The use of short delays is good for widening up the guitar sound across the stereo fields. This techniques is very effective.
 
Your tone needs to be very broad with extended high and low frequencies. This is a must for a huge sound.
 
Your depth is very important. Long delays and reverb can make the guitar sound like its being listened to in a large room. A slap back delay defines
the size of the room that the guitar is placed in. For example a delay of 500ms will create the illusion that the guitar is being listened to in a space that is 500 feet long. This is because sound travels at a speed of one foot per millisecond.
 
Compression is very important. I don't have a setting, because you need to use your ears for this. Each guitar/song will need different settings. But remember that compression helps keep the guitar consistent in the mix space. So use compression for this..
 
You try low tuning your guitar. record one take with standard tuning and one take with low tuning and combine them both for one huge guitar sound.

Double, triple, quadruple track guitar takes. Pan them far left and far right. This is by far the best way to achieve a huge guitar sound.
You can also clone/copy the guitar track onto a new track and then transpose then entire track down an octave and combine both tracks for a huge sound. 
 
This is my favorite mic'ing technique to get that big, thick, and chunky guitar sound: (Note; you need 2 mic's for this technique). This techniques will put the "power" in your power chords.

1. Place one mic close to your amp's speaker and compress that signal with an 8:1 ratio settings, a fast attack, a semi fast release and a threshold of 6 to 20dB below the highest peak of the audio level. This high compression will cause your guitar sound to pump.
2. Place the 2nd mic and place it 5 to 9  feet away (room mic) from the amp's speaker. compress this signal with a ratio of 5:1, a medium attack, a slow release, and the threshold is the same as the other one, between 6 to 20dB below the highest peak.
3. Combine both sounds together and using the room mic just enough to give it that thick and chunky sound.

CJ
 

Dave: Just a bit of clarity on your point, the Line6 UX/PODFarm series does give the option to record clean or processed audio.

Only if you're using a hardware device like the Line6 UX. If you're just using the PODFarm or Guitar Rig or any other software Fx you can't. You can't record with any software effects in Sonar. You can add them after the fact though.

Thanks to everyone who took the time to repy, it gives me a bit to think about.

Cheers
John 

A chunky, fuzzy guitar line that sounds great live and through an amp @ 11 just sounds weak in the studio.  No matter how high you turn it up, it just fizzles.  I've seen (or heard) the problem a lot.  A guitar cab rolls off the highs and lows but overcomes that problem by sheer power.  Back off the fuzz effect first and see if you can't get more highs and lows in the recording to round out the sound.  That will add back some power on full range montitors, unless your audience listens through guitar cabs.

@

batsbrew

i know it sounds cliche...
and i'm ok with that.

try micing a real amp, for real tone.

i've gone the pod route....
and never found it satisfactory.
tried the pod pro....
same with virtual rigs, and plug-ins.....


i even ran a pod XT into a tube amp, and miced that, and it still wasn't quite the same thing.

sometimes, it's just easier to cut to the chase.

 
I totally agree. The "Engineer" in me loves the challenge of working for a real tone, it is like a badge of honor to get a real tone from a real amp like a real engineer.
 
The "Producer" in me says get the tone that is right for the song no matter what you have to do, even if it means using a software plugin.
 
These two sides battle constantly, but I am happiest when I can achieve the needed tone from real amps.

JWH,
 
I'll be the third poster to suggest posting a sample of what you are hearing on the recording. Without hearing, it is harder to pinpoint your problem. We may not hear it as such. Or, the problem may become quite obvious to all. I use a Line-6 DI with Podfarm and feel you should get adequate recorded sound. Really would like to know how to make your setup work satisfactorily for you.

While I am recording, the guitar tone sounds killer, but on playback it just does not have that same "tone' to it.

Correct- cause when you are playing, some of them tones are heard through your bones (literally).
And the guitar sets up sympathetic vibrations with your body that simply can't be captured "to tape."