*Guitar tone...

*I posted this in the wrong forum... so this is a re-post, sorry!*


Hi folks... I have an issue with some recently recorded guitar tracks.

-The levels of each track are fine
-I used my Marshall DSL50 head and a yamaha 4x12 cab
-I miked it with a Shure SM57
-They were recorded direct into sonar, no outboard processing

So, the good news is that the recorded track is in good condition, it hasn't been manipulated. But, they sound dull and lifeless. There isn't much room ambiance because they were close-miked, but they don't have the brightness or presence I was hoping to achieve. I don't really want to re-record any of this if I don't have to... but I can if I am required to do so. I'd like to find a way to do it in post with plugs and EQ, because I have multiple tracks layed down in more than one song.

The problem is, I want a nice thick tone that's not boomy, and has enough crunchy high end to punch correctly in my mix. I can't seem to get that without making it too shrill or ear-piercing. I've EQ'd a ton of guitar tracks before, but for some reason these sound strange and flat. Part of the problem is that when I recorded them I didn't realize that the tone was this dull.

So, I used a SonitusFX EQ and just rolled the highs up a little bit... but all that gave me was a nasty "tunneled" sound in the 4-6k range. I used a narrow band in that range to drop those freq's, but then it sounds tunelled through the 2-3k range.
(I describe it as a "tunneled sound" for lack of a better term. By "tunneled", I mean "canny" or "tunneled through a certain frequency range". It's really an *overprocessed* sound, that's my best guess. Someone please tell me if this makes any sense!!!)

I can post a sample of the dry track tonight, maybe that would help. Anyone willing to give it a shot? I'm not looking for someone to mix my song... but maybe some advice on what I could do to improve the tone would be nice! Maybe an exciter?
I tried running it through a dynamic distortion to break up the highs a little bit, but I ended up with a different type of distortion, same tunneled sound. No luck there! Anyone have any ideas?

Also, could it be because I'm bussing them together into a stereo bus and EQing them through the same SonitusFX? It still retains the stereo space, but maybe because they are EQ'd identically I'm getting this nasty sound?

Boten's advice is the best around. If you have a sample, post it and I'll give it a listen. I have a feeling, based on your comments, that you used too much pre-amp gain, a very common thing to do that always results in an overprocessed sound. Also, try micing the 57 a little off axis, as this seems to clear up a little of the mud and emphasize the 2k range.

ORIGINAL: gonzo_dog

Also for that thick track sound you'll need to record more than one track anyway.

Right on... I did. There are actually 4 guitars. Two mains, panned out about 65% L & R, bussed quietly to opposing delays. The other two are much lower and panned 100% L&R, with also opposing delays.
The panning and layering is the part I'm happy with. I've used it many times before and had great results (all with preamps running direct, not miked). It's really just related to the tone as far as I can see.

I will post a clip later and we'll see. I'd prefer to post a .WAV clip of about 30 seconds so I don't lose clarity. I'll update later.
Thanks!

it has been posted before by yep but i read this and would highly recommend it to you:

http://www.badmuckingfastard.com/sound/slipperman.html

slipperman's recording distorted guitars guide. slipperman is a very disturbed individual (i.e., engineer ) with a very good approach to recording guitar (at least from a common sense standpoint, i've never had the pleasure of trying it out myself so can't vouch for it in that way).

one thing i'd never thought of was how important it is to involve the cab itself in the sound. that requires turning it up quite a bit, which is much easier to handle with a small cab than a big one.

Thanks!

So... maybe I'm just being anal about the tone. I may just use your model as a guide, Joe. It did sound a bit less harsh and more full.

Did you hear the 3.5k-5k tunneled sound that I heard? Was it all in my head?

I didn't hear any tunnel thing. Maybe its the way it sits in the mix with your drums and whatnot, in which case I wouldn't have heard it the way you did. I really think it sounded fine before I screwed with it.

ORIGINAL: corrupted
Alright Joe... so maybe I'm going crazy... why don't you come out and say it already?

do you hear it in the single sample or when you've got all the guitars together in the mix? in the sample you posted i really don't hear anything particularly wrong. it does sound a little flat, maybe generic. if you've got some delays going on that can sometimes cause a phasey sound...

ok i hear it now. as far as mic'ing goes, you'll just have to experiment. if you can get someone else to play (or move the mic) then just move the mic around as you are playing and maybe describe (in the mic so you know later) where the mic is (9" back, off-axis at a 45° angle). if you've got two people have one play and one move the mic and then listen in a control room (if you've got one) and tell them to stop when it sounds good.

also i usually take a big chunk out of the middle when i eq electrics in a denser mix. recently though i've been turning down the mid control on my pod with some success. the bottom line is that getting the "perfect" tone is going to take time and experimentation.

Try pointing the mic straight into the speaker cone as opposed to the ever popular but questionable angled mic technique. The center of the speaker will yield the most high end with a rounder tone available closer to the edge. The closer you put the mic to the cab the more you will boost 200 hz due to proximity effect - I usually put the mic 6-12" away to let the cab breathe a bit and also because I tend to rolloff alot of low end on guitars anyway to make room for the bass. Also try to get the cab off the floor because leaving it on the ground can mess with low end. Have someone play guitar quietly through your amp (or reamp a clean direct guitar track through your amp) and listen to each speaker in turn to see if you can find one that sounds best. And finally volume is your friend - turn your amp up and try to find the sweet spot with the best tone with a minimum of rattling from the amp, cab and room.

And if you really don't wanna re-record your trax, when you've found a good place for the mic, you could always try 're-amping' your recorded guitar