HAL is dead???

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julibee
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2009/11/28 00:36:29 (permalink)

HAL is dead???

my latest ntblog that seems to tell me HAL is dead.... Is there a fix???
 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Original Message:
The Basics:  HP Q6600 @2.40Ghz, 3.0 Gig Ram, 32-bit Windows Vista Home Premium, Service Pack 2.
 
As of Monday, startup is consistantly NOT starting up.  Meaning, it goes through :
1. the BIOS screen (that what it's called, right?), then
2. a cursor in the top left-hand corner, then
3. (not as quickly as usual) "Microsoft Corp" with the running lightbar icon. 
 
What *should* come next is the windows logo, followed by log in (there are two users on this system), but that's what seems to be failing.
 
If I hard reboot at this point, (before the Windows logo) I go through 1, 2 & 3 and then system recovery shows up.  However, it can't find anything wrong, and only says, "Your computer failed to start" (I think.  I'm  very tired and have tried a billion and one things yesterday and today).  I'm then taken to Start up Recovery, where several times I've chosen to Restore to an earlier point, but no luck there, either.  If I cancel the Restore option, I'm back to start up repair, and most of the time, about 15 minutes later, it will start up to the log in screen.  And seemingly be fine.  Until you shut down and restart, where the whole problem begins anew.
 
A few times, I've hit F8 before windows starts up, and I've tried a few things, there, like Restore, Last Known Good Configuration... but what's interesting is, soimetimes, if I choose, "start Windows normally", it WILL.  Other times, I'm back to Start up repair.
 
NOW.  As I CAN sometimes get in, I've been able to run the HP hardware diagnostic tools, and it's found nothing.  I've run CCleaner, Windows Defender and Spybot.  Nada.  I've un-installed my M-Audio driver, which sometimes causes me to crash (because of M-Audio's inability to deal with Sleep/Hibernate - which, yes, I have disabled).  Nope.  I've gone into the Backup and Restore Center and restored to a date several days before I started having problems.  No go.  I'm reluctant to take it back much further than that, but I could - but I have a feeling that's not going to solve anything.
 
I even thought, well, Hell!  Might as well give Windows 7 a shot.... Took nearly an entire day to backup and install (did NOT do a clean install... trying not to have to reload everything... this is not a dedicated DAW), took about 5 hours to run the Win7 intsall process, and everything was fine during all reboots, UNTIL the final one.  Then I got the "Installation was unsuccessful" message, and had to wait overnight until it rolled back to Vista.  Actually, I don't know how long that took.  I went to bed.
 
HERE'S THE ONLY THING I KNOW!  When the system is NOT going to start, I can tell while the BIOS Screen is running, because there are "fragments" or "artifacts" on the screen.  Like, as if the monitor was an old CRT with damage to it...  The artifacts (bits of pixelations that distort any graphics or text) run in straight lines down the screen in several rows.  If there are no artifacts during the BIOS screen, start up will, well... start up.  If there ARE artifacts, I'm dead in the water.
 
Now.  Having said all that, here's what I know has changed:
Windows update installed Service Pack 2 and a new driver for my graphics card - NVIDIA GeForce 8400 GS.  I tried to roll back both of those things, and of course, Can't.
 
Anyone have any clues for me???  I'm strictly a software geek.... and I'm at a total loss.  I tried to run a report that showed the list of processes running at startup, and the last thing on that list was windows\system32\drivers\crcdisk.sys.  I have no idea if that was in fact the last thing, or if that's where it's getting hung up. 
 
How do you trouble shoot this???
 
Oh, I will kiss the soles of anyone who can offer some advice......
 
EDIT!  Forgot to note that I CAN start up in Safe mode.  But I don't know what to do once I get there.....

post edited by julibee - 2009/12/02 21:08:45

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#1

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    marcos69
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    Re:Help! Oh, Help! Oh, Help! 2009/11/28 00:44:55 (permalink)
    Will it boot up in safe mode? 

    Mark Wessels

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    #2
    julibee
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    Re:Help! Oh, Help! Oh, Help! 2009/11/28 00:46:03 (permalink)
    :)  I was adding that as you were asking!  Yes.  :)

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    marcos69
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    Re:Help! Oh, Help! Oh, Help! 2009/11/28 01:18:38 (permalink)
    Safe mode boots with limited drivers and processes.  So one of those may be causing you not to boot normally.  Have you added or changed anything around the time it quit working?

    Mark Wessels

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    #4
    julibee
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    Re:Help! Oh, Help! Oh, Help! 2009/11/28 01:30:54 (permalink)
    Just the Vista Service Pack 2 and the NVIDIA Driver that I can think of.

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    alexoosthoek
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    Re:Help! Oh, Help! Oh, Help! 2009/11/28 01:43:50 (permalink)
    Can you do a system restore to before the updates?

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    slartabartfast
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    Re:Help! Oh, Help! Oh, Help! 2009/11/28 02:28:08 (permalink)
    A good guess is that there is some driver or program that is supposed to be loading that is corrupted and causing the hang. The last time this happened to me it was a damaged firewall file (antiviruses and their ilk tend to load very early). I found it by enabling boot logging  in safe mode, then examining the ntbtlog.txt following the next failed attempt to boot normally for the last thing that tried to load before the hang. Then googling the bizarre and uninformative names of the files to see what program they were associated with and finally doing a registry hack that permitted using the uninstall for that program under safe mode.
    #7
    julibee
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    Re:Help! Oh, Help! Oh, Help! 2009/11/28 02:34:05 (permalink)
    Alex, I've tried that...  And Slartabartfast, I'll give that a go in the morning (nice job on the Fjords, btw).  Thank you both!  I'll let you know if I find anything.

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    bvideo
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    Re:Help! Oh, Help! Oh, Help! 2009/11/28 09:35:02 (permalink)
    Julibee,
     Your observation about screen corruption in the BIOS screen suggests a hardware problem, not a Windows problem. Some things to try would be
    A) reseat cards (memory and graphics)
    B) memtest86 (software for testing memory)
    C) try a different graphics card

    Bill B

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    Jim Roseberry
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    Re:Help! Oh, Help! Oh, Help! 2009/11/28 11:12:38 (permalink)
    As of Monday, startup is consistantly NOT starting up. Meaning, it goes through : 1. the BIOS screen (that what it's called, right?), then 2. a cursor in the top left-hand corner, then 3. (not as quickly as usual) "Microsoft Corp" with the running lightbar icon.

     
    What you're describing sounds exactly like the system is hanging when loading a driver.
    If you can consistently boot into Safe Mode... that would further point to a driver related problem.
     
    Boot into Safe Mode... and remove the video card's driver.
    Can you now boot into Windows normally?
    If so, load the video driver that was working (prior to the problem).

    Best Regards,

    Jim Roseberry
    jim@studiocat.com
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    #10
    marcos69
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    Re:Help! Oh, Help! Oh, Help! 2009/11/28 11:35:14 (permalink)
    Looks like everyone beat me back with good advice.  I was leading up to the selective driver and services loading.

    Mark Wessels

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    #11
    spacey
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    Re:Help! Oh, Help! Oh, Help! 2009/11/28 13:21:08 (permalink)
    Julibee- as bvideo has listed, re-set the memory cards. Not only that but swap locations.
    I had to replace my memory cards and swapping was part of the preliminary steps to determine if the went bad.

    Jim not mentioning it though sure indicates that is not the problem.
    #12
    Russell.Whaley
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    Re:Help! Oh, Help! Oh, Help! 2009/11/28 15:06:05 (permalink)
    Ack - definitely a migraine-level problem for you.  When that happened to me last summer, it was only a couple days before my motherboard said a final te deum and headed for the hills.  I hope it's a less-expensive glitch for you. 




    #13
    jhughs
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    Re:Help! Oh, Help! Oh, Help! 2009/11/28 17:25:51 (permalink)
    Did going back to an older NVIDIA driver fix the problem?
    I have a similar issue with a graphics card I purchased last year, exact same symptoms on an XP system.   Works fine until moving past a certain point on the drivers.  Just have to go back to last one that works.

    I'm not so good on Vista but in Safe Mode you should be able to roll back the video driver.  Or download an older driver from NVIDIA and load it.
    (If you have trouble I can look at my wife's laptop later - it's the only Vista we have.)

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    julibee
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    Re:Help! Oh, Help! Oh, Help! 2009/11/29 00:21:45 (permalink)
    First thing this morning, I enabled bootlogging, then started up in safe mode, checked the log and found a bunch of failed to load programs.  Checked out what was running at start up, and discovered that several processes I thought should be running, weren't.  So, just for laughs, I enabled everything, and restarted.  All was fine.  I restarted three more times, and it was great!  

    And then I got really, really brave, and really really stupid and thought I'd try installing Win7 again.  Install went fine, once again, until the final restart 5 hours later.  Installation unsuccessful.  Roll back to Vista took another 2 hours.

    And then I had to wrestle with the Christmas tree for several hours.

    Will tackle the next thing tomorrow.

    Russell, you aren't being very encouraging.... :)

    Having never cracked open the case of a system before, I'm a little hesitant, but I think that's what must be done.  I'd once read about the importance of making sure that one is "grounded", and that thought makes me nervous.  Not for my own sake, but for my system's...  Am I just being ridiculous?
     
    Edit:  I hate typos.
    post edited by julibee - 2009/11/29 00:23:01

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    The Maillard Reaction
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    Re:Help! Oh, Help! Oh, Help! 2009/11/29 08:12:06 (permalink)
    You are asking about static electricity protection. I live in high humidity and static is almost non existent. If you have any static electricity issues in your work space you should have a grounding strap on your leg or something. Static electricity can have very high voltages but almost no amperage... it can kill an electronic logic chip and you might not even notice it happened.

    I have never had any need for such a strap.

    Furthermore, for the sake of discussion... if we were speaking of grounding with regards to actual power supply electricity (either AC or the converted DC) you DO NOT WANT TO BE THE GROUND!!!!

    That usually hurts!!!

    Best practice when working inside an appliance is to use the one hand rule. Never let two hands touch anything at the same time... and only make exceptions when you are clearly aware that you are doing so.

    This is over kill protocol for working on a computer but the strict adherence to this rule will save your life if you ever start poking around inside a TV or tube amp.

    Good luck,

    BTW I also think it's a driver issue.

    best,
    mike


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    Crg
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    Re:Help! Oh, Help! Oh, Help! 2009/11/29 11:01:04 (permalink)
    spacey


    Julibee- as bvideo has listed, re-set the memory cards. Not only that but swap locations.
    I had to replace my memory cards and swapping was part of the preliminary steps to determine if the went bad.

    Jim not mentioning it though sure indicates that is not the problem.


    Wouldn't you usually get a three beep notification from your computer if it was a memory problem? I did.

    Craig DuBuc
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    Old55
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    Re:Help! Oh, Help! Oh, Help! 2009/11/29 13:57:23 (permalink)
    Usually you would get the beeps if it was a major memory problem--especially one where the size of the memory has changed.  Some of the more subtle memory errors might not cause the beeps. 

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    Old55
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    Re:Help! Oh, Help! Oh, Help! 2009/11/29 14:29:41 (permalink)
    Julie,

    Does it only happen when you try to install Windows 7?  If it does, I'd agree that it's a driver.  If it still happens with the old Vista install, I'd suspect the hardware since you're dealing with a different set of drivers. 

    If you can see which program was the first to fail in the bootlog, Google the file name.  You should be able to find out which driver or piece of hardware is causing trouble.  Then you can download and try a new driver or think about re-seating or replacing the offending part. 

    I don't think you'll have too much trouble with static today since it's fairly humid. 

    Good luck,
    Jan

    Should auld acquaintance be forgot--hey, who the hell are you guys?  
     
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    slartabartfast
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    Re:Help! Oh, Help! Oh, Help! 2009/11/29 17:46:49 (permalink)
    Wouldn't you usually get a three beep notification from your computer if it was a memory problem? I did.


    The POST (the thing that goes beep in the dark) generally does a very minimal job of testing memory, otherwise it would take several hours to boot up.
    #20
    Tap
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    Re:Help! Oh, Help! Oh, Help! 2009/11/29 20:05:51 (permalink)
    Julianna,
     I have to agree with everyone here in that it sounds like a hardware problem.
     I could be worth running CHKDSK, though. I've found that problems accessing the Hardrive during bootup could also do this.

    start->run->cmd
    in the command window type: chkdsk /f /r


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    slartabartfast
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    Re:Help! Oh, Help! Oh, Help! 2009/11/29 23:38:18 (permalink)
    Best practice when working inside an appliance is to use the one hand rule. Never let two hands touch anything at the same time... and only make exceptions when you are clearly aware that you are doing so.


    The one hand rule protects the electrician in case the unit is energized. Unplug the computer then use the two hand rule. One hand on the power supply or case (assuming you have a good ground from MB to case) the other on the component you are removing/inserting. This (like the ground strap) protects the component from static damage. The capacitors in a computer should not retain enough charge to kill you if the unit is unplugged.

    BTW, I do not think it is a hardware problem. And I think you are unwise to do anything but a clean (i. e. custom to a formatted drive/partition) install of win 7. See this kludge if you are using upgrade media.
    #22
    julibee
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    Re:Help! Oh, Help! Oh, Help! 2009/11/30 01:38:00 (permalink)
    Oh, geez, you guys have come out of the woodwork to help - I'm so thankful! 

    As of now, here's where I am....

    Still up and running through startup, after that bootlogging exercise that helped me id and fix the failing programs.... No luck with installing Win7 yet, although I put it to the MS IT forum, and have a possible solution that I'll have to look into tomorrow (curious?  Here you go!)

    Other news... decided to crack her open and take a look... I'm still sneezing from the dust.  It.was.Horrible.  Did the best I could with a compressed air can while my vacuum cleaner hose hummed in the general vicinity and sucked up what floated outside the case (No.  I didn't actually vacuum inside the computer.  I know better than that).  REALLY, REALLY AWFUL.  I did not have this problem with my old system, and I can only think that it has to do with the physiology of the computer and maybe the additional three processors.... :)

    Anyway, it booted up much more quickly this time around (less than a minute) and I'm happy to report that the fans are not on, when last night at this time, they would have been.  Thought I'd try just cleaning it before I re-seated everything, since I've never done that before.  Seems to have done the trick for now.

    Still have to figure out the Windows7 install thing, but I'll get that taken care of eventually.

    A million thank you's to each and every one of you.  How very helpful you've all been.  I appreciate it so much.

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    #23
    julibee
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    Re:Help! Oh, Help! Oh, Help! 2009/12/02 00:47:27 (permalink)
    (written from Safemode with Networking)
    Dammit.  After 3 days of being okay, here's what I now see in ntblog (skipping to what failed).  Is this SERIOUSLY my HAL failing????  And, um... what exactly does that mean???  It's a Quad, so I assume that's why you see everything 4x... I didn't copy the whole thing... you get the picture.  What I can't find online in a tech forum is if I can repair HAL w/out a clean reinstall.  Anyone know?  Thanks!  (AGAIN)

    Loaded driver \SystemRoot\System32\drivers\ecache.sys
    Loaded driver \SystemRoot\system32\drivers\disk.sys
    Loaded driver \SystemRoot\system32\drivers\CLASSPNP.SYS
    Loaded driver \SystemRoot\system32\drivers\crcdisk.sys
    Did not load driver @hal.inf,%acpiapic.devicedesc%;ACPI x86-based PC
    Did not load driver @oem64.inf,%devicedesc%;Automap MIDI
    Did not load driver @oem64.inf,%devicedesc%;Automap MIDI
    Did not load driver @oem64.inf,%devicedesc%;Automap MIDI
    Did not load driver @cpu.inf,%intelppm.devicedesc%;Intel Processor
    Did not load driver @cpu.inf,%intelppm.devicedesc%;Intel Processor
    Did not load driver @cpu.inf,%intelppm.devicedesc%;Intel Processor
    Did not load driver @cpu.inf,%intelppm.devicedesc%;Intel Processor
    Did not load driver @oem64.inf,%devicedesc%;Automap MIDI
    Did not load driver @cpu.inf,%intelppm.devicedesc%;Intel Processor
    Did not load driver @cpu.inf,%intelppm.devicedesc%;Intel Processor
    Did not load driver @cpu.inf,%intelppm.devicedesc%;Intel Processor
    Did not load driver @cpu.inf,%intelppm.devicedesc%;Intel Processor
    Did not load driver @oem64.inf,%devicedesc%;Automap MIDI
    Did not load driver @cpu.inf,%intelppm.devicedesc%;Intel Processor
    Did not load driver @cpu.inf,%intelppm.devicedesc%;Intel Processor
    Did not load driver @cpu.inf,%intelppm.devicedesc%;Intel Processor
    Did not load driver @cpu.inf,%intelppm.devicedesc%;Intel Processor
    Did not load driver @oem64.inf,%devicedesc%;Automap MIDI
    Did not load driver @cpu.inf,%intelppm.devicedesc%;Intel Processor
    Did not load driver @cpu.inf,%intelppm.devicedesc%;Intel Processor
    Did not load driver @cpu.inf,%intelppm.devicedesc%;Intel Processor
    Did not load driver @cpu.inf,%intelppm.devicedesc%;Intel Processor
    Did not load driver @oem64.inf,%devicedesc%;Automap MIDI
    Did not load driver @cpu.inf,%intelppm.devicedesc%;Intel Processor
    Did not load driver @cpu.inf,%intelppm.devicedesc%;Intel Processor
    Did not load driver @cpu.inf,%intelppm.devicedesc%;Intel Processor
    Did not load driver @cpu.inf,%intelppm.devicedesc%;Intel Processor
    Did not load driver @oem64.inf,%devicedesc%;Automap MIDI
    Did not load driver @cpu.inf,%intelppm.devicedesc%;Intel Processor
    Did not load driver @cpu.inf,%intelppm.devicedesc%;Intel Processor
    Did not load driver @cpu.inf,%intelppm.devicedesc%;Intel Processor
    Did not load driver @cpu.inf,%intelppm.devicedesc%;Intel Processor
    Did not load driver @oem64.inf,%devicedesc%;Automap MIDI
    Did not load driver @cpu.inf,%intelppm.devicedesc%;Intel Processor
    Did not load driver @cpu.inf,%intelppm.devicedesc%;Intel Processor
    Did not load driver @cpu.inf,%intelppm.devicedesc%;Intel Processor
    Did not load driver @cpu.inf,%intelppm.devicedesc%;Intel Processor
    Did not load driver @oem64.inf,%devicedesc%;Automap MIDI
    Did not load driver @cpu.inf,%intelppm.devicedesc%;Intel Processor
    Did not load driver @cpu.inf,%intelppm.devicedesc%;Intel Processor
    Did not load driver @cpu.inf,%intelppm.devicedesc%;Intel Processor

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    #24
    julibee
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    Re:Help! Oh, Help! Oh, Help! 2009/12/02 21:09:10 (permalink)
    Anyone???

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    #25
    Tap
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    Re:Help! Oh, Help! Oh, Help! 2009/12/02 21:47:15 (permalink)
    Julianna,
    Now.  Having said all that, here's what I know has changed:
    Windows update installed Service Pack 2 and a new driver for my graphics card - NVIDIA GeForce 8400 GS.  I tried to roll back both of those things, and of course, Can't.

     

    It does appear that the problem is coming from your NVIDIA driver.

    Here's a similar problem from NVIDIA 's web site.  8600gt problems

    You need to try and uninstall / reinstall the drivers.

    This page may help Uninstalling NVIDIA


    Good Luck


    post edited by Tap - 2009/12/02 21:50:00

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    #26
    Old55
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    Re:Help! Oh, Help! Oh, Help! 2009/12/03 22:38:51 (permalink)
    Hi Julie,

    I don't think it's the whole HAL.  I'm guessing that hal.inf is corrupt or has a bad setting that keeps the other stuff from loading.  Is this the old Vista OS or Win7?  Have you tried a new install instead of your upgrade?

    Good luck,
    Jan
    post edited by Old55 - 2009/12/03 22:39:58

    Should auld acquaintance be forgot--hey, who the hell are you guys?  
     
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    julibee
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    Re:Help! Oh, Help! Oh, Help! 2009/12/04 00:42:03 (permalink)
    Hey Jan, That's what I think too...
     
    I'm rolled back to Vista Home Premium SP2 - and no, I haven't tried a new (clean) install... I have SO MANY programs that I don't want to have to deal with.  Yeah.  I know.  With all the time I've put into this lately, I would have spent LESS time reloading stuff.... !!! 

    At this point, the problem seems to be intermittant - sometimes it boots, sometimes, it doesn't - The MS technet thread I posted has this reply, which I'll do next time it happens... I DO want to move to Win7, but I'm not in a major hurry.  See if you think it's a good move (I already have done the System Repair thing more than 5 times.  Still keeps happening - sometimes).

    Step 1. Startup Repair
    ================
    1.  Insert the Windows Vista installation disc in the disc drive, and start the computer. 
    2.  Press a key when you are prompted. 
    3.  Select a language, time, currency, a keyboard or an input method, and click "Next". 
    4.  Click "Repair your computer". 
    5.  Click the operating system that you want to repair, click "Next". 
    6.  In the System Recovery Options dialog box, click "Startup Repair".

    Please try the above steps and let me know the results at your earliest convenience. If there are any questions or concerns, feel free to contact me.
    If the issue persists, you can try Step 2.
    Step 2. Delete the corrupted components
    ===============================
    1. Start the computer by using the Windows Vista DVD. To do this, insert the Windows Vista DVD in the computer's DVD drive, and then restart the computer.

    Note: To start the computer from the Windows Vista DVD, the computer must be configured to start from the DVD drive. For more information about how to configure the computer to start from the DVD drive, see the documentation that is included with the computer, or contact the computer manufacturer.
    2. When we are prompted to press a key to boot from the DVD, please press Enter or the space bar.

    3. Click "Next" and click "Repair your computer".

    4. Please highlight "Windows Vista" and click "Next".
    Note: A computer may store more than one copy of Windows Vista. Please highlight the one which encounters issues. The order of the items in the dialog-box is identical with the one on the boot menu. 
    5. In the dialog box titled "System Recovery Options", click "Command Prompt" and run the following commands:
    cd    C:
    del   C:\windows\system32\drivers\pcmcia.sys*
    del   C:\windows\system32\drivers\1394bus.sys
    del   C:\windows\system32\drivers\ohci1394.sys                        
    del   C:\windows\system32\driverstore\filerepository\pcmcia.inf*
    del   C:\windows\system32\driverstore\filerepository\1394.inf
    del   C:\windows\system32\driverstore\filerepository\sdbus.inf*
    del   C:\windows\inf\sdbus.inf*
    del   C:\windows\inf\sdbus.PNF*

    By performing these steps, the personal profile on the hard drive will not be affected.

    After that, please restart your computer to test if you can boot in Vista normally.

    post edited by julibee - 2009/12/04 00:44:03

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    julibee
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    Re:Help! Oh, Help! Oh, Help! 2009/12/04 00:45:12 (permalink)
    Oh, Tap - I tried that.  Still nothing.  Thanks, though!

    She who must be obeyed. ***New and Improved with a Scarlett 8i6!***
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    Old55
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    Re:Help! Oh, Help! Oh, Help! 2009/12/04 08:17:44 (permalink)
    Hi Julie,

    The Techweb suggestion sounds good.  I hope it works.  I'm sorry I haven't been more help.  I'm still running XP. 

    As a last resort--if you need to do a clean install of Vista.  You could try backing try backing-up everything.  Doing the install and then doing a restore.  I haven't tried it, so I don't know that it will work.  At least it's a shot--if all else fails. 

    Good luck,
    Jan

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