HAR-BAL

Does anyone use this?
http://www.har-bal.com/

See my thread. Search "Har Bal". SOunds pretty good.

yup! fantastic piece of software ...

I have it and I am very pleased with my purchase. I am still on the front end of the learning curve - and intend on becoming very familiar with this tool over time.

There has been a lot of discussion on these forums so you may want to run a search to for other comments.

My opinion is Har-Bal is a recommended buy for the money. It visually verifies where you are in the mixing process, which in turn should help one to fine tune their mixing ears/mastering ears. However, its' intended use is to master within the program - I have no problem tweaking eq inside of Har-Bal as well. One can make very precise adjustments within the program that otherwise might be missed by someone who does not master on a daily basis.

I have it, love it and would recommend it to anyone.
I'm using it today to fix uneven string pressures on bass guitar tracks. Ignore the hypie web site and try it. But it's not a magic bullet: the better an engineer you are the more use the tool will be.
You just need to be clear in your mind what it ACTUALLY does and does not do!
And the support is the best I've ever stuck.

While I might end up with Har-Bal, I opted for the first purchase to get Voxengo CurveEQ (2 days ago) which is alot like it but a plug-in that runs inside Sonar. Large learning curve there as well.

Another Har-Bal Thread:
http://www.cakewalk.com/forum/tm.asp?m=248665&mpage=1&key=har%2Cbal&anchor#248665

Well, tonight I downloaded the demo and played with it for an hour or so.
Although the demo is limited to 8-bit audio, it still has value (IMHO), and can reveal possible issues within a mix.
One should probably read the tutorial, and understand the program's usage, as others have suggested.

If nothing else, one can use the free demo as an analysis tool. One can apply parametric EQ (recommend sparingly) to even out response aberrations in a mix--then using the "[Alt][2]" feature, visualize an approximation to a "corrective" filter. One could then (albeit somewhat painstakingly) re-create a similar response characteristic using a Sonitus or Cakewalk parametric EQ within a Sonar project.

[OK, maybe I'm just too cheap to buy the thing]

- john

I was considering getting HarBal but Ozone 3 came out and gave me a whole mastering package for a similar price. Ozone can also allow you to compare your mix with a track you like, and automatically set its parametric filters to produce similar spectral distribution. The demo of Ozone is worth checking out (as well as Har Bal of course).
http://www.izotope.com/products/audio/ozone/

Cliff

I use Har-Bal myself, am a worldwide partner of Har-Bal and am very involved with the Har-Bal people. I love the app, it smokes anything else like it. Which is why I have donated my time to them in writing their tutorial, helping with various tasks such as beta testing, reviewing and other such things.

Just FYI, there will be a VST version of Har-Bal out before too darn long so it will work in your VST hosts such as Sonar, WaveLab and the like.

This has made my mastering jobs so much quicker and so much easier and all the while getting stellar reviews from my clients. It really can't be beat.

I like Har-Bal a lot also and am really looking forward to the VST plugin version.

Once it is a plugin it will readily compete and most likely beat the Arboretum Ionizer EQ section which has a lower spectrum FFT size (2048 points ??) and it's EQ section uses a 512 point FIR I believe. I think Harbal has a 8192 point FFT spectrum and can make up to 1/10 octave parametric EQ settings, I don't know what size the FIR filter is though off the top of my head.

In addition Har-Bal interface is super-fast to use as I can dial in a song in under 5 minutes usually. It helps me to have a fairly good monitoring system too so I can hear what I'm seeing, hehe.

I think I may end up using Har-Bal or CurveEQ on the mids, GlissEQ2 on the highs, and a combination of Soniformer2 and GlissEQ2 on the lows when I really need to assert myself on a mix.

Very good DAW tools we have at our disposal - nice prices too - I'm a $99 guy usually.

BTW thanks for the working on the tutorials DB...it's nice when something a bit different and unusual comes along eh ?

Yeah, I had to jump on this bandwagon and get involved, it's to cool of an idea, and as cool as itis, it's still really in it's infancy, can't wait to see what the future brings.

Great software. Purchased it a few months ago and just recently got into it to master a CD. Easier to use than it looks and the loudness matching feature just puts it over the top. Works as advertised.

Check out this demo that was har-balized then followed with voxengo elephant:

Know You Pt.1
Before - http://www.chrismaproductions.com/demos/Track02.mp3
After - http://www.chrismaproductions.com/demos/KnowYouPt.1-D-Avrij.mp3

Ah, funny this post comes up! I just came here in this forum to ask about Har-Bal!

I've been on the internet for the last few hours reading about Har-bal. I had never heard of it before. Another topic on this forum got me interested in sprectral analyzis, but har-bal looks to be the best things to get when you want to master on a budget! I read Craig Anderton (almost) only uses Har-Bal with some limiting afterwards to get his masters done!

What'looks really cool to me is the loudness compensation. I've fooled around with ozone for a while but the problem is almost everything sounds better because it's just louder... You cannot really do an A/B comparison because of this. Har-Bal elimiantes this problem. I also like the theory behind it all (smoothing the complete mix and using EQ instead of compressing the stuff to death!)

And what's even better is the price! Ozone is too expensive for me, but Har-bal will cost me only about 75 Euro! Great! Awesome! I really woudn't have been surprised (after reading all the positive reviews on the net) if they'd asked 350 dollars for it: it seems to be that good and worth it!

I only wonder if it is REALLY true that Har-Bal alone (with some good limiting afterwards) can do the complete master-trick... It's seems too good to be true... But if Anderton says so... it almost has to be the truth!
Mind you, I'm an amateur, so... I don't need pro-stuff, but it's nice if you can get close to pro-stuff for only 76 euro...!

If the premaster is mixed and processed well, yes, Har-Bal is all it takes.

I played around with it for an hour last night too. Cool tool. I want one. It will be mine.

I really like that show with CHRI-MATTHEW!!!

I donwloaded the trial version of Har-Bal, but was turned off by the 8 bit limit, and did not really give it a chance. I bought Firum instead because it's a plug-in and the quality is very good.

If Har-Bal comes out as VST, and if someone can tell me why it's better than Firium I will definitely reconsider it.

Let the persuasion begin . . .

Well, I read this thread and went and got the demo. I too was a little "frightened" with the 8-bit demo, but decided to take a chance and purchase the product. WOW! This is such a great tool. I've only had it a couple of days, and I'm already loving it. The only problem is now I'm wanting to go back and re-mix/master a lot of projects. I think it is worth the money just as a learning tool if nothing else. The audio coming out is crystal clear and I couldn't be happier. It really does what it says it does.

I'm hooked. Two thumbs up for this one. Great tool.

Nelson

My cat just coughed up a har bal.

R

HAHAAHA good one nprime!

anyway i just recently brought this product after trying out the demo. the demo sucks (to me anyway) but zgraf had a good idea to use the demo as an analysis tool, it will not be the same (in my opinon) if you just EQed it . I would suggest it to anyone who is willing to buy it, great tool.
Joe

anybody with ears and motivation might also check out

http://www.voxengo.com/soniformer/

and gives us a compare and contrast

I own this as I was very impressed with the mp3 before/after on the site
but honestly have never used it much as I find PolySquasher to be much more effectibe as a pre-mastering tool

Polysquasher is definitely not in th esame category as Har-Bal,
but from the information available Soniformer with spectrum contraction and expansion
may be doing close to the same thing

I picked up the Soniformer and CurveEQ (a-lot like Har-Bal) last week for $120 from Voxengo. Good stuff. Learning curve sucks bit may be my loss of brain.

I suugest everyone to read this thread. Wow, Aleksey from Voxengo is really a dedicated genious:

http://www.voxengo.com/phorum/read.php?f=1&i=524&t=524

best, drjee

I have it. I love it.

Will it make a terrible mix sound great? No.

Can it make a good mix sound better? Absolutely. It can solve problems and is well worth the money.

I wonder: can Har-Bal be used with other mastering tools, like limiters and compressors? Should you use Har-Bal first then and *then* use limiting, or the other way around?

ORIGINAL: MotorMind

I wonder: can Har-Bal be used with other mastering tools, like limiters and compressors? Should you use Har-Bal first then and *then* use limiting, or the other way around?

The normal sequence is: 1) Har-bal, 2) multiband compression, 3) limiter.
See more at http://www.har-bal.com/faq.htm#q4

- Tom

Is Voxengo Elephant the best limiter?

Assuming I wanted to use Sonitus and Lexicon for FX and SONAR4PE for mixing, could I ahcieve decent, hobbyist mastering with HAR Bal and Voxengo Elephant? That would cost around $160. Would it be better to go with Ozone for $250?
Why don't we have a poll for this stuff? (Of course, after what happened Tuesday, I'd probably be tempted to go with the "mastering" tools that had the least number of votes).

FWIW,It's my opinion, having tried all three(HB<OZONE<VOXENGO), that voxengo plugs are the most pro sounding and smartest overall.
For mastering i think the voxengo mastering bundle is a frikkin KILLER deal.
If you spend some time with curve EQ you will be amazed at the things this plug in can do and it does them very well. Soniformer is quite a tool as well.
And i do think Elephant is the best limiter in this category.
Oh and dudes, GET GLISS EQ!. This thing is a real treat when mixing, but make sure you understand the dynamics properly.

And no i don't work for voxengo, i just think that the guy is doing wonderful things, runs a killer business and deserves props.

I agree with halljams, the voxengo stuff is great. You can't go wromng with it. Howevere, I like ozone's integrated workflow/gui. I also think that is loundness maximizer and it's multiband comp are quite good. also the eq is nice. for sound-coloring, however, voxengo is unbeatable. I use a combination of CurveEQ/Soniformer/Transmodder for coloring and Ozone for the rest. Expect from loundness compensation CurveEQ can do all that har-bal can do (plus it gives do beautifil sound-coloring options).

best, drjee

The normal sequence is: 1) Har-bal, 2) multiband compression, 3) limiter.
See more at http://www.har-bal.com/faq.htm#q4

strange that a multiband would come after Har-bal, because mutibands can also act as eqs. I guess you have to keep the gains leveled in this case.

Eric

Any users of either the Har-bal or Voxengo products have any before and after samples of your own material?

I ask because in listening to the different sound samples from both manufacturers' sites, the output audio sounded, well, bad. Especially in the high end, which sounded very hyped. Much like the assuming overlay curves used were not weighted properly in the high frequencies, causing users to exagerate high end.

ron

For what it's worth (and from my very amateur position, it may not be worth much at all), HarBal is just great. The program is intuitive and fun to use, the results are immediately noticable, and the guys who work there are just about the most professional, friendly people I've had the pleasure of "talking" to in a forum. I use Harbal and T-RackS, and I've just been stunned at how much better my final mixes sound.

strange that a multiband would come after Har-bal, because mutibands can also act as eqs. I guess you have to keep the gains leveled in this case.

Eric


I agree, and yes it is a great program!

ORIGINAL: drjee

I agree with halljams, the voxengo stuff is great. You can't go wromng with it. Howevere, I like ozone's integrated workflow/gui. I also think that is loundness maximizer and it's multiband comp are quite good. also the eq is nice. for sound-coloring, however, voxengo is unbeatable. I use a combination of CurveEQ/Soniformer/Transmodder for coloring and Ozone for the rest. Expect from loundness compensation CurveEQ can do all that har-bal can do (plus it gives do beautifil sound-coloring options).

I get good results witch T-Racks, which also adds some warmth to my mixes.

I wanted to let you all know that I purchased HAR-BAL. I have to say, as reluctant as I am to make statements like this, HAR-BAL is the closest thing I have found to a magic bullet for correcting harmonic anomalies in mixes. Will it make a terrible mix sound good? No. But it will improve it considerably. Will it make a well mixed song sound better? Yes. Absolutely - it will. I tried it out on a new mix that I'm working on and it went from something that sounded good to pure unadulterated ear-candy after being HAR-BAL'd.

Will it replace mastering engineers? No. But will it help people like me? Oh yeah it will! Great product. I HIGHLY recommend it.

Thanks,

ORIGINAL: danhazer

I wanted to let you all know that I purchased HAR-BAL. I have to say, as reluctant as I am to make statements like this, HAR-BAL is the closest thing I have found to a magic bullet for correcting harmonic anomalies in mixes. Will it make a terrible mix sound good? No. But it will improve it considerably. Will it make a well mixed song sound better? Yes. Absolutely - it will. I tried it out on a new mix that I'm working on and it went from something that sounded good to pure unadulterated ear-candy after being HAR-BAL'd.

Will it replace mastering engineers? No. But will it help people like me? Oh yeah it will! Great product. I HIGHLY recommend it.

Thanks,

In my entire engineering life I have never encountered such fervent and on-going enthusiasm for one single product as I have for Har-bal.

My full registration came through yesterday which means I've had it for one month... and I'm more enthusiastic about it now than I was when I got it. I simply can't imagine life without it.
And yes, my mixes are much better for having it. It costs $95. I would gladly pay $1000 or more. It's a product which actually works to improve you as an engineer, not simply makes life easier.
Rave, rave, rave ...

ORIGINAL: danhazer

I wanted to let you all know that I purchased HAR-BAL. . . I tried it out on a new mix that I'm working on and it went from something that sounded good to pure unadulterated ear-candy after being HAR-BAL'd.

Hey dude - I'm Maple Grove. Small world.

Any chance you could post some MP3's of before and after? All of the raving here is making me rethink about buying it.

Hey dude - I'm Maple Grove. Small world.

Any chance you could post some MP3's of before and after? All of the raving here is making me rethink about buying it.

I frikin' love Maple Grove. I love that outdoor shopping center they have there. My friend Brian works at the Waner Stellian there...

Anyway, I can proabably put some before and after if you'd like. It can't happen until tomorrow though.

If you'd like to stop by my place in Coon Rapids and see how easy it is to use this product, you are more than welcome. Me email is in my user profile.

EDIT: actually I lied. My email is not in my profie. either just get back to me here or just hold up until I get the samples done. Might be a few days.

Thanks,

I agree Har Bal is great. I am just beginning to utilize it. The only thing I wish it had is a "automatic" EQ to a reference file. I like to EQ my stuff to its "rock" reference curve and I get tired of having to drag the eq curve around for 5 minutes every time I want to EQ a new version of a song. I think I am going to try getting a "fingerprint" of a song that I've "har bal"ed to their rock refernece curve with Voxenego's Curve EQ. Then I may be able to get that specific EQ with a preset in Curve EQ as a plug in on the master. I hope it works.

ORIGINAL: Spinedoc

I agree Har Bal is great. I am just beginning to utilize it. The only thing I wish it had is a "automatic" EQ to a reference file. I like to EQ my stuff to its "rock" reference curve and I get tired of having to drag the eq curve around for 5 minutes every time I want to EQ a new version of a song. I think I am going to try getting a "fingerprint" of a song that I've "har bal"ed to their rock refernece curve with Voxenego's Curve EQ. Then I may be able to get that specific EQ with a preset in Curve EQ as a plug in on the master. I hope it works.

Spine. If I understand your issue correctly, why don't you save your settings(File/Filter/Save As) to a directory and load it back in again with the next version of your mix?

The only thing I wish it had is a "automatic" EQ to a reference file.

Think the developers deliberately chose to avoid the automatic EQ to reference file option. They claim other plugins/tools that attempt to do this have only limited success, and the results can be dreadful: the "match-to-reference" operation can be dependent on the material.

This is an extreme example, but imagine if you created a WAV of a soprano choral section, and tried to "EQ-reference" it against a death-metal/bass-heavy piece. As the developer emphasizes in the documentation, the EQ'ing has to be handled judiciously. When there is little original frequency content in a particular band (e.g., in the bass region in this example), one must respect the original waveforms--and not try to alter things unnaturally. An automatic process isn't smart enough to know about this stuff...

- john

so why don't you use just curveEQ then? Do you want to say that you cannot get a result with curveeq alone which is as good as with using harbal first?

I noted on the Har-Bal user forum that they use Armadillo copy protection. Is this a fairly benign form of copy protection, as opposed to Pace, which is notorious for screwing up the computer system?

LW

OK - I am going to jump in as the first Har-Bal detractor. Well, not exactly a detractor, but maybe a dose of reality...

I just bought Har-Bal (too many people saying too much good stuff). I pulled up a live (one take) recording that I had previously mixed and mastered using those wonderous tools known as "ears".

Amazingly, the mix (according to Har-Bal) had no major holes or bumps and maybe a slight boost to the lower half of the spectrum. It looked much better in Har-Bal than the tutorial source in the help file.

I decided to try flattening any anomolies: result - a horrible sounding thing. I started over and made very small adjustments to a few anomolies: result - a fully listenable mix, but debateable whether it was an improvement.

So bottom line - I like the fact that Har-Bal confirmed a decent harmonic balance, but the normal Sonar tools + a set of ears had already given me the ability to do it right in the first place. I do recall spending about a half day or so mixing and mastering this tune, so Har-Bal may have saved time. However, I rarely EQ the whole mix, rather I use appropriate intruments with minor EQ to fill the mix.

Its probably worth $100 bucks for the confirmation that the song will transfer to other playback devices. I am torn between being happy that my ears work to being sad that I couldn't make big improvements. Of course, maybe I just got lucky on this one song :)

Eric

I tried the demo again last night - it's hard to really hear what it does when you're limited to 8 bit playback.

I do like the idea of being able to drag incremental portions of the spectrum into a smoother line. But it's hard to see what I am really doing - is there any indication of what the EQ filter alone looks like? Does anyone know how many actual bands this thing uses? Also, it looks like the parametric adjuster "smooths" out any changes - is that correct?

It also looks like Craig Anderton also endorses Har-Bal:

http://www.maulbeerbaum.de/?article=121

Well guys.....

har bal is for the most part a visual aid eq... but never that gonna replace
a good pair of ears....

wathosever, guys who have many miles in the mastering scene dont even need
to use any visual things they "flght" by ears not sight...

in the other hand newbies in the mastering world use that viusal thing to help them to see what is wrong in the mix..... you load a great mix analyze the spectrum and then load their own mix and compare what is wrong...
but its just and aid and its not the holy grail of mastering eq and not are smart
to correct a bad equed mix. just gives some visual help .... a helping hand

that as i already quote dont need the experienced mastering engineer that have thousand of "flight" time.

the sucees of the mix depends on the experience of the mastering engineer and its good taste to shape things to sound Sweet and musical.

Rolo.

ORIGINAL: pdarg

ORIGINAL: danhazer

I wanted to let you all know that I purchased HAR-BAL. . . I tried it out on a new mix that I'm working on and it went from something that sounded good to pure unadulterated ear-candy after being HAR-BAL'd.

Hey dude - I'm Maple Grove. Small world.

Any chance you could post some MP3's of before and after? All of the raving here is making me rethink about buying it.

Hey, I'm in Prior Lake...work in MPLS right now...

For what it's worth, HarBal is usually the absolute last thing I do.

I've been mastering for bands for many years, HarBal won't replace me, but it SURE makes me work faster and make more money!

God Bless HarBal

Hey, I'm in Prior Lake...work in MPLS right now...

Where in mpls?

Until the end of the year I am on 9th and Marquette in the AT&T tower. My cube pretty much looks right at the word "Foshay"

Oh, and I just responded to you at the HarBal forum...

wathosever, guys who have many miles in the mastering scene dont even need
to use any visual things they "flght" by ears not sight...

Alot of what's happening in mastering these days, unfortunately has very little to do with what you are speaking. It's seems that to merely take the mix and squash it dynamically will suffice for a better part of the industry...

Additionally, mastering engineers are capable of making mistakes, too. The last CD I did was ruined by the mastering 'engineer.' Knowing what I know now about my own mixes, thanks to HarBal, I could have mastered that CD three times better than the guy I paid to do it.

Until the end of the year I am on 9th and Marquette in the AT&T tower. My cube pretty much looks right at the word "Foshay"

Howdy neighbor. I'm in the AEFA Headquarters building @ 3rd & 7th. You're about 3 minutes walking (skyway) distance from me. Cool huh?

Hey, that is pretty cool.

Let's do lunch some day and sing the praises of Har-Bal

Let's do lunch some day and sing the praises of Har-Bal

I'm all for it.

Talk to you soon,

Dan. What you might like doing with your drums is to get the mix up the way you think you want it. Export the drums to a stereo pair, Har-bal against a reference, note the changes, re-import the stereo pair and use as is OR tweek the individual drum tracks using the notes you made. This could work around the room issue. I do this always with bass to great effect.

Edit: Sorry Dan, confusing my forums. It's early in the morning here.

The purpose of Har-Bal is NOT to visually flatten and/or smooth out your mix. In fact, somewhere in their documentation, they tell you that your mix will sound flatter than flat if you use the tool to flatten out every bump. And this only makes sense, I'd say.

The prime purpose of Har-Bal, IMHO, is to confirm that your "good" mix will sound good on most or all sound systems (and to fix visually obvious problems that you may not hear in your room). For example, if you feel that your mix sounds great, but Har-Bal is showing an EQ hole at around 200 Hz, this might very well be due to resonances in your mixing room that are masking that problem. You could pull up the 200 Hz band area (while using your ears of course), and you might find that it makes not a whole lot of difference, or it may just give it some warmth that was missing.

BTW, you might be one of "those people" with a great set of ears, and able to achieve a mix that many others only dream of, seriously. So if you nail it, you nail it. But many others do not have the resources to get a great listening room. This tool is perfect for them.

When I bought Har-Bal, I loaded up some of my mixes. The ones I feel were good, showed themselves to be good (and benefitted from a little tweaking anyway). But there was one mix in particular that I just didn't feel good about, and I just wasn't having much luck with it. I tweaked it using Har-Bal, and I felt there was a big improvement. Before it was brittle sounding, especially the voice, and after, it had the warmth that eluded me.

Actually, as a new Har-Bal user, I'm finding it very educational to load up real tracks of commercially released music, and have a look at the spectrum. Then I begin making changes to it, as if it were my own mix. Sometimes, it sounds better, sometimes it doesn't, and that's where the education is.

Sorry, I guess this post was more like $0.03 than $0.02, but I find that Har-Bal is really educating me about mix quality.

ORIGINAL: danhazer

Until the end of the year I am on 9th and Marquette in the AT&T tower. My cube pretty much looks right at the word "Foshay"

Howdy neighbor. I'm in the AEFA Headquarters building @ 3rd & 7th. You're about 3 minutes walking (skyway) distance from me. Cool huh?

Wow! Too much! THREE GUYS FROM MINNEAPOLIS on the same thread!
Two out of three love Har-Bal, me . . . still undecided.

But the recommendations from fellow Minnesotans goes a long ways. Har-Bal has a 30 day try-refund policy, so I am now leaning towards just taking the plunge.

I'm stuck in the 'burbs so I'll have to take a rain check for lunch.

Can someone clarify something for me? Does Har-Bal actually have over 8,000 "bands" of EQ?

I assume then that the parametric nudging cursor is a simplified way of dealing with such resolution??

Also, why is there nothing showing over 10k? Is that just the demo, and the real version goes above that?

I like Har- Bal also but I found the peaks and valleys to be slightly more exagerated
then the spectrum analysis of Sound Forge or Audition.
So I just use it as a reference then go back into my Sonar mixdown and
apply changes with the mixdown track EQ.