karma1959
Max Output Level: -80 dBFS
- Total Posts : 515
- Joined: 2008/10/31 10:56:29
- Location: Brooklyn, NY
- Status: offline
HELP!!! Export to OMF causes crash
Hi, I've finished tracking an album and am hiring a pro engineer to mix it properly - he works in Pro Tools, so I'm looking to export the project to OMF to share with him. When trying to export to OMF, Sonar scrolls through several 'mixing down audio' and 'copying WAV...' lines, then when it gets to 'exporting OMF', it crashes. I'll start by saying I've never exported to OMF before, so apologies if I'm doing something dopey. At first, the crash message indicated a BFD3.dll was the module that crashed, so I removed the BFD plugin from the project (I still have the drum MIDI pattern in the file, just removed the plugin was present), unfortunately the OMF export still crashed, although it now says SonarPLT.exe is the module crashing instead of BFD3.dll. The project consists of about 40 audio tracks and 1 MIDI track. I've removed all effects (except prochannel modules) to minimize potential for those contributing to the issue, but it still crashes during OMF export. I've tried selecting all tracks before exporting to OMF and selecting NO tracks before exporting to OMF and the same results. I haven't frozen or bounced any tracks - not sure what that would do in this case, since I'm not running any soft synths, etc, but let me know if I'm mistaken. Really in a bind here - the engineer is awaiting my OMF, so would appreciate any assistance. I'm also dropping the dump file to cakewalk support as well. Thanks Russ
Sonar Platinum x64 on Win10 64, Dell T7400 w/ 8 Xeon cores, 8 Gbyte RAM, 3 hard drives, RME Fireface UFX, UAD-1, Mackie Control, Adam A7X
|
Sanderxpander
Max Output Level: -36.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3873
- Joined: 2013/09/30 10:08:24
- Status: offline
Re: HELP!!! Export to OMF causes crash
2017/02/26 12:23:55
(permalink)
I've done this a few times and found OMF support to be, let's say "sketchy". I think there's a size limit of 2GB (for the complete file) and possibly also an event limit. The only way I got it working was by making sure I comped everything down and had only a single take lane per track. Also, I removed all plugins.
Still more reliable is simply exporting stems, if that's an option for you.
|
karma1959
Max Output Level: -80 dBFS
- Total Posts : 515
- Joined: 2008/10/31 10:56:29
- Location: Brooklyn, NY
- Status: offline
Re: HELP!!! Export to OMF causes crash
2017/02/26 12:32:10
(permalink)
Thanks. My files aren't anything special and shouldn't be huge compared to most people's projects - so I can't imagine I'm hitting some kind of inherent limit, otherwise nobody would be able to use OMF anywhere. I'll take a look at the take lanes to see if that does the trick. If I did go the stems route, wouldn't that limit the mixing engineer that I'm sending these to? Apologies for the naïve question, but mixing down to stems, means I'd be bouncing individual WAV files down into groups, right? So the mixing engineer wouldn't be able to edit individual files, but only the resulting group WAVs, right?
Sonar Platinum x64 on Win10 64, Dell T7400 w/ 8 Xeon cores, 8 Gbyte RAM, 3 hard drives, RME Fireface UFX, UAD-1, Mackie Control, Adam A7X
|
chuckebaby
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 13146
- Joined: 2011/01/04 14:55:28
- Status: offline
Re: HELP!!! Export to OMF causes crash
2017/02/26 13:23:58
(permalink)
You might be better off just exporting the raw tracks to a folder along with a detailed text file on track contents. If im correct, your sending this to another producer to mix down, so exporting any automation is not really a factor. Your basically sending him raw tracks of the project that line up/in synch. I do this quite a bit and created a thread in the techniques section of this forum http://forum.cakewalk.com/Orginizing-Labeling-Audio-and-Midi-Tracks-m3448904.aspxOn how label everything to send it out. I uploaded a Word template as well. Stems are groups of tracks IE- Sub mixes, Bus mixes, Drum mixes,exc. If your producer wants individual tracks and not groups, export the tracks. Im not sure why OMF is crashing I really cant give you any insight on that to be honest. But like I said if your producer is going to mix the project for you I wouldn't worry much about OMF. (I could be wrong but I believe you'll only be missing tempo changes, markers and automation) In my travels, I have found it is best to make sure everything lines up correctly (bounce all your clips together to create one whole track VS. 20 clips on track 10). Place a dummy note at 101:00 on your midi tracks so they also line up from project start, this way everything is totally in synch. Send him a detailed report of tracks (he will love you for it). And do as much house cleaning (what I call pre production): Melodyne fixes, Autosnap/synch corrections before you send it. This not only saves your producer from headaches but will also save you a few bucks.
Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64 Custom built: Asrock z97 1150 - Intel I7 4790k - 16GB corsair DDR3 1600 - PNY SSD 220GBFocusrite Saffire 18I8 - Mackie Control
|
karma1959
Max Output Level: -80 dBFS
- Total Posts : 515
- Joined: 2008/10/31 10:56:29
- Location: Brooklyn, NY
- Status: offline
Re: HELP!!! Export to OMF causes crash
2017/02/26 15:33:55
(permalink)
Thanks for the suggestions guys - really appreciate the assistance here. Sanderxpander - FWIW, I removed all take lanes except one (by 'removing silence) and unfortunately, no change - still crashes upon exporting to OMF. Chuck - Thanks for the WAV file export recommendation. I took a quick look at your doc and it's VERY helpful - thanks! Would all MIDI tracks need to be bounced down to audio to be included in the WAV export? I have a single MIDI drum track, so would need to split that out to individual BFD3 outputs per drum, so each drum kid piece had an individual WAV, correct? Frankly, I was hoping the producer would do that, as I've struggled with it - is there a way for me to export just the existing MIDI track along with the WAVs? Thanks again so much for the help. Russ
Sonar Platinum x64 on Win10 64, Dell T7400 w/ 8 Xeon cores, 8 Gbyte RAM, 3 hard drives, RME Fireface UFX, UAD-1, Mackie Control, Adam A7X
|
Sheanes
Max Output Level: -77 dBFS
- Total Posts : 684
- Joined: 2013/01/30 10:31:11
- Location: Zjwame, Netherlands
- Status: offline
Re: HELP!!! Export to OMF causes crash
2017/02/26 16:08:17
(permalink)
if you want to send only audio tracks to the mix engineer, without any bus/sends things etc....and without doing an export out of Sonar. you could bounce the clips in the track view ( bounce to clips), to include any automation (gain, pan etc), then extend those clips (tracks) to the beginning and end, so all clips/tracks are same length and start at 0. then bounce the clips again. (and name the clips/tracks if you want). then if you save the project to a new folder and tick 'copy all audio', in the new 'audio' folder are all your tracks, that you could send to the engineer. it's not a quick workaround though... and not sure if you get the good render algorithms (izotope Pow)...
|
chuckebaby
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 13146
- Joined: 2011/01/04 14:55:28
- Status: offline
Re: HELP!!! Export to OMF causes crash
2017/02/26 16:47:00
(permalink)
karma1959 Would all MIDI tracks need to be bounced down to audio to be included in the WAV export?
It all depends on if your Producer owns BFD 3 and the kit preset you have. Myself, I choose work with the midi tracks (as long as I own the soft synths). but some producer like to work with the audio tracks as well. They are easy enough to bounce down if needed. I typically do this when backing up projects because you never know when your going to have to send it out to someone who doesn't have those VST-I's. Or if in 10 years from now the Soft synth is not available anymore
Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64 Custom built: Asrock z97 1150 - Intel I7 4790k - 16GB corsair DDR3 1600 - PNY SSD 220GBFocusrite Saffire 18I8 - Mackie Control
|
jpetersen
Max Output Level: -61 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1499
- Joined: 2015/07/11 20:22:53
- Status: offline
Re: HELP!!! Export to OMF causes crash
2017/02/26 17:31:41
(permalink)
|
jpetersen
Max Output Level: -61 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1499
- Joined: 2015/07/11 20:22:53
- Status: offline
Re: HELP!!! Export to OMF causes crash
2017/02/26 17:34:05
(permalink)
...but it should show an error message, not crash.
|
mudgel
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 12010
- Joined: 2004/08/13 00:56:05
- Location: Linton Victoria (Near Ballarat)
- Status: offline
Re: HELP!!! Export to OMF causes crash
2017/02/26 22:35:26
(permalink)
You can still export your MIDi tracks so they can be brought into PT. Or render to audio is the best, as there's no guarantee that your producer has the same Instruments you have and the same settings etc. better you render the them.
Mike V. (MUDGEL) STUDIO: Win 10 Pro x64, SPlat & CbB x64, PC: ASUS Z370-A, INTEL i7 8700k, 32GIG DDR4 2400, OC 4.7Ghz. Storage: 7 TB SATA III, 750GiG SSD & Samsung 500 Gig 960 EVO NVMe M.2. Monitors: Adam A7X, JBL 10” Sub. Audio I/O & DSP Server: DIGIGRID IOS & IOX. Screen: Raven MTi + 43" HD 4K TV Monitor. Keyboard Controller: Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S88.
|
karma1959
Max Output Level: -80 dBFS
- Total Posts : 515
- Joined: 2008/10/31 10:56:29
- Location: Brooklyn, NY
- Status: offline
Re: HELP!!! Export to OMF causes crash
2017/02/26 23:17:20
(permalink)
Thanks all - so maybe my inclusion of a MIDI track is what's causing the OMF rendering to crash. I'll try removing that or potentially render that MIDI drum track down to individual WAV files per everyone's suggestion above. That said, how do you export a MIDI file to share with someone? I don't recall seeing anything specific to MIDI in the export dialog. It's interesting OMF doesn't support MIDI - sounds like it doesn't buy much over just exporting the individual tracks to WAV files then.
Sonar Platinum x64 on Win10 64, Dell T7400 w/ 8 Xeon cores, 8 Gbyte RAM, 3 hard drives, RME Fireface UFX, UAD-1, Mackie Control, Adam A7X
|
Sheanes
Max Output Level: -77 dBFS
- Total Posts : 684
- Joined: 2013/01/30 10:31:11
- Location: Zjwame, Netherlands
- Status: offline
Re: HELP!!! Export to OMF causes crash
2017/02/27 01:45:50
(permalink)
1 way is to select the midi clip by clicking on it, then simply drag/drop the midi into any folder..
|
gmp
Max Output Level: -70 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1033
- Joined: 2003/11/08 04:14:02
- Location: Nashville, TN
- Status: offline
Re: HELP!!! Export to OMF causes crash
2017/05/27 04:01:45
(permalink)
I have a client that insists on OMF. I had the same crashing problem with no midi tracks, only audio. My fix was to export all tracks as 48 24 then drag them back in. All tracks are consolidated wav files, no pieces. OMF now works. Next time I may just try bouncing all tracks, so there's only 1 long clip per track, may that'll work. So karma did you ever get it to work?
Gerry Peters Midi Magic Studio http://gprecordingstudio.com/ Album Productions and Songwriter Resources Cakewalk By Bandlab, Platinum 64 + 32 bit, Studiocat AsRock Z97 motherboard, Haswell CPU 4790k @ 4.4GHz, RAM 16GB DDR3/1600, Windows 10 Pro all updates including optional, MOTU AVB Ultralite sound card/Midi interface/Dig mixer, onboard Video HD4600. Midisport 2x2 midi interface, Vienna Instruments, Ivory II piano, Komplete 9, Superior drummer. 5 HD's - OS drive 250GB SSD, Samples drive 1 500GB SSD, 3 data HDs - total of 6.5T
|
karma1959
Max Output Level: -80 dBFS
- Total Posts : 515
- Joined: 2008/10/31 10:56:29
- Location: Brooklyn, NY
- Status: offline
Re: HELP!!! Export to OMF causes crash
2017/05/27 12:45:14
(permalink)
Yes, I found doing things in steps helped a lot: - save the original version, then remove all FX in the effects bin, enable the master FX bypass (for prochannel effects) - remove any MIDI tracks from the project - bounced down all comped tracks so each had one long clip per track. I think the key was for me to do them one at a time (or a couple tracks at a time) as opposed to letting the OMF do all these during OMF creation, this way I could find the track which was causing an issue. I did have one or two tracks in a project which seemed to have issues when bouncing down - not sure if there was corruption in one of the WAVs, but once I deleted the comp for that track and bounced it down again, all seemed to work well. - OMF has a 2 Gbyte filesize limit. I found the resulting error code wasn't very intuitive - it just said something like 'error creating OMF', but didn't mention anything about file size. So I would watch the file size increment in file manager as the OMF was being created, so I knew whether or not that was an issue. If I exceeded the 2 GB limit (which I did in many cases, since my projects were 40-50 tracks of 24 bit / 96 KHz audio), I needed to break the project down into two OMFs by deleting half the tracks, creating an OMF, then reopening the file, deleting the other half and creating another OMF. Hope that helps. Russ
Sonar Platinum x64 on Win10 64, Dell T7400 w/ 8 Xeon cores, 8 Gbyte RAM, 3 hard drives, RME Fireface UFX, UAD-1, Mackie Control, Adam A7X
|
Jimbo 88
Max Output Level: -57 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1828
- Joined: 2007/03/19 12:27:17
- Location: Elmhurst, Illinois USA
- Status: offline
Re: HELP!!! Export to OMF causes crash
2017/05/27 16:51:58
(permalink)
I use OMF all the time. I wish I saw this thread earlier I think I could have helped. Yes, bounce and freeze all your midi and tracks. Audio Clips with fades, overlaps and edits will cause you trouble. I have not had any problems with effects or midi being in the project, just realize they won't transfer. Before i render the OMF file I "Remove All Silence". This will make your OMF smaller. I don't use the default setting, I set the DB level at 90db to make sure i get all the subtle fade ins and outs
Cakewalk By Bandlab Cubase 9.5 Pro Windows 7 64 Bit Core i7-8700 32 Gig Ram 3.20ghz RME Fireface 400 Audio Card Behringer FCA 1616 Sweetwater Creation Station
|
Jimbo 88
Max Output Level: -57 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1828
- Joined: 2007/03/19 12:27:17
- Location: Elmhurst, Illinois USA
- Status: offline
Re: HELP!!! Export to OMF causes crash
2017/05/27 16:54:13
(permalink)
Ohh and by the way...many times I thought Sonar crashed at the end of the render...and it did, but the OMF was fine despite the crash. Check it out.
Cakewalk By Bandlab Cubase 9.5 Pro Windows 7 64 Bit Core i7-8700 32 Gig Ram 3.20ghz RME Fireface 400 Audio Card Behringer FCA 1616 Sweetwater Creation Station
|
karma1959
Max Output Level: -80 dBFS
- Total Posts : 515
- Joined: 2008/10/31 10:56:29
- Location: Brooklyn, NY
- Status: offline
Re: HELP!!! Export to OMF causes crash
2017/05/28 00:00:46
(permalink)
Jimbo 88 Before i render the OMF file I "Remove All Silence". This will make your OMF smaller. I don't use the default setting, I set the DB level at 90db to make sure i get all the subtle fade ins and outs
Agreed, I do this as well - I should have included this in my response above. Thanks!
Sonar Platinum x64 on Win10 64, Dell T7400 w/ 8 Xeon cores, 8 Gbyte RAM, 3 hard drives, RME Fireface UFX, UAD-1, Mackie Control, Adam A7X
|
karma1959
Max Output Level: -80 dBFS
- Total Posts : 515
- Joined: 2008/10/31 10:56:29
- Location: Brooklyn, NY
- Status: offline
Re: HELP!!! Export to OMF causes crash
2017/05/28 00:01:16
(permalink)
Jimbo 88 Ohh and by the way...many times I thought Sonar crashed at the end of the render...and it did, but the OMF was fine despite the crash. Check it out.
Yes, the same thing happened to me once or twice. It was strange, but I was happy to see the OMF was ok.
Sonar Platinum x64 on Win10 64, Dell T7400 w/ 8 Xeon cores, 8 Gbyte RAM, 3 hard drives, RME Fireface UFX, UAD-1, Mackie Control, Adam A7X
|
gmp
Max Output Level: -70 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1033
- Joined: 2003/11/08 04:14:02
- Location: Nashville, TN
- Status: offline
Re: HELP!!! Export to OMF causes crash
2017/05/28 04:30:02
(permalink)
Thanks for chiming in Jimbo. It's nice we have someone using OMF a lot. I hadn't used it in probably a decade and now I have a client that insists on it. It worked on 2 songs without a problem, except having Sonar crash after it made the OMF. Then they wanted the OMF not saved in 1 file, but having the audio saved externally. Then the crash happened before the OMF was created. This is when I went to some extreme measures of starting with the original Platinum default template with no plugins and importing the audio from the other files into this new file. I still had crashes until I exported all the files and imported them back in as continuous wav files. Next time I do this I'll have lots of tips and tricks from everyone here.
Gerry Peters Midi Magic Studio http://gprecordingstudio.com/ Album Productions and Songwriter Resources Cakewalk By Bandlab, Platinum 64 + 32 bit, Studiocat AsRock Z97 motherboard, Haswell CPU 4790k @ 4.4GHz, RAM 16GB DDR3/1600, Windows 10 Pro all updates including optional, MOTU AVB Ultralite sound card/Midi interface/Dig mixer, onboard Video HD4600. Midisport 2x2 midi interface, Vienna Instruments, Ivory II piano, Komplete 9, Superior drummer. 5 HD's - OS drive 250GB SSD, Samples drive 1 500GB SSD, 3 data HDs - total of 6.5T
|