HOSA > LiveWire??

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davdud101
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2014/05/25 19:51:50 (permalink)

HOSA > LiveWire??

 So I fell on the sword today and bought my PreSonus Audiobox. It plays nicely with other animals in the studio, haven't had too many killer-problems yet. But one thing is bothering me...
A long time ago I bought a short 5ft LiveWire cable. From my understanding, LiveWire is a pretty good company and uses Neutrik XLR connectors. However, I noticed that it adds a slight sizzle/whine around 3kHz that I do NOT experience from my cheaper-quality (but 20ft!) HOSA cables.
Is it the distance from the electronics that causes this? Why would a higher-quality cable produce a lower quality sound?

 
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    spacealf
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    Re: HOSA > LiveWire?? 2014/05/25 20:21:40 (permalink)
    Probably distance and direction. In some audio/interface you would not want to use any Hosa cables, they get stuck in the Neutrick connection and can not be pulled out, and then when you paid a couple of thousands for the unit, you have to try and take it apart and may break the combination connecter or send in the unit to have them get the triangle shaped tip end out, because it is not rounded.
    I have I think live wire cables, I have no problem with them.
    Of course I have some others also from Sweetwater, but since they all cost about the same, I can not see where that would be a problem. At least with anything I have, it is not.
    Could be electromagnetic interference, or poor shielding in some unit that picks up the interference (radio frequencies). Always getting bombarded by electromagnetic waves all over in the atmosphere, or if close to a high-power voltage line can cause problems also.
    Most people use a power conditioner for the power supply also, because of dirty power or brownouts with power (or even blackouts) and also may have a uninterruptible power supply to shut down things safely if power fails.
     

     
     
    #2
    bitflipper
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    Re: HOSA > LiveWire?? 2014/05/25 22:42:18 (permalink)
    The noisy cable could be defective or mis-wired. The pitch of the noise suggests that it might be coming from the switching power supply in your computer. Perhaps the longer cable gives you more routing options so you can get it further from the source of the interference.
     
    I've heard of the stuck-Nutrik scenario (one online posting described a poor fellow who had to disassemble the Nutrik connector to get is plug free), but as far as I know the warning applies to quarter-inch plugs rather than XLR connectors. I've had some quarter-inch plugs get stuck to where it took a scary amount of force to remove them, but haven't had one get permanently stuck yet. 


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    spacealf
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    Re: HOSA > LiveWire?? 2014/05/26 13:37:10 (permalink)
    Didn't I mention that? Yes, the guitar type cord connections (1/4" plugs ends) get stuck in those combination connectors.
    Not the XLRs. Sorry about that, I goofed.
     
     

     
     
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    davdud101
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    Re: HOSA > LiveWire?? 2014/05/27 16:38:09 (permalink)
    I see... So for future reference it may be wise to avoid mixing these brands of cables, I'm taking?
     
    Also, I have a phantom power question, since I'm pretty new to it... Yesterday, my pal let me borrow his MXL 770 (which to my ears sounds like heaven), and my bow has a 48v switch... but it sends to both inputs at once. If I'd've wanted to plug in a dynamic microphone while phantom was powered on for say, dual micing purposes, what would have occurred? Would it be dangerous? Is there any way to use this dual micing setup?

     
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    spacealf
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    Re: HOSA > LiveWire?? 2014/05/27 17:55:26 (permalink)
    Probably a question for Gearslutz forum there, or maybe there is a thread already on it. I don't think you would hurt a dynamic mic but then I am not sure and I guess I would not do it, and well a ribbon mic I would not do it with or even try. I think in that case I buy another condenser mic that takes a 48v plug-in just to be safe about it. Maybe someone else has another answer or probably if put into a search engine maybe an answer can be found. (ie. running a dynamic mic in a 48v mic connection because both inputs have 48v on them because of the condenser mic - ah, might have to shorten that search parameter a bit though).
     

     
     
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    RobertB
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    Re: HOSA > LiveWire?? 2014/05/27 19:50:28 (permalink)
    davdud101
    Also, I have a phantom power question, since I'm pretty new to it... Yesterday, my pal let me borrow his MXL 770 (which to my ears sounds like heaven), and my bow has a 48v switch... but it sends to both inputs at once. If I'd've wanted to plug in a dynamic microphone while phantom was powered on for say, dual micing purposes, what would have occurred? Would it be dangerous? Is there any way to use this dual micing setup?



    I have to concur with spacealf. It may damage a dynamic mic. It will destroy a ribbon mic.
    One of the features I found most attractive on the Akai EIEPro was the ability to only turn on phantom power to two of the four inputs. This is rare on relatively inexpensive interfaces.
    Oddly, a reviewer from a seemingly reputable source complained about it, but it's a big plus.
    With your Presonus interface, I would highly recommend not mixing mic types.

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    davdud101
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    Re: HOSA > LiveWire?? 2014/05/27 22:12:38 (permalink)
    Aw, Rob, that was the ONE I was gonna get! (but alas, my setup couldn't wait much longer, I had NO interface prior to this'n :S) but alright, that's pretty straight-forward. Guess my multi-mic setups will be limited to dynamic-only or multi-interface until I get a bigger, better one (which won't be soon, haha)

     
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    bitflipper
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    Re: HOSA > LiveWire?? 2014/05/28 10:32:56 (permalink)
    That's such an annoying feature, switching phantom power for 2 or more channels together - just to save the cost of some $2 switches. My new interface does the same thing, switching inputs 1-4 and inputs 5-8 together.
     
    The good news is that the vast majority of dynamic microphones will not be harmed by phantom power, nor even know it's there unless the cable is broken. But you hate to expose a critical piece of hardware to unnecessary risk, even a very small risk.
     
    If you're really worried about phantom power, get a DI box. Unless specifically designed to transfer or generate its own phantom power, transformer-based DIs do not pass phantom power. A DI can come in handy for other things, too, so it's not like you'd be spending the money for a one-trick device.


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    #9
    Starise
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    Re: HOSA > LiveWire?? 2014/05/28 12:42:37 (permalink)
    There seems to be an exception to every rule. I have been running soundboards for a long time and mixing phantom power with dynamics. In fact, My Mackie board is designed to handle both together and the power goes to all my mic inputs. The original design of phantom power is such that it is supposed to play well with dynamics. If it weren't this way think of how many mixers would be blown up if you hot plugged a dynamic in every time you accidentally left phantom power on. Most people like to keep the two separate in case something wasn't wired to spec. for safety sake.
    I live on the edge, so I would probably be using them together. I haven't yet heard the lightening bolts of Zeuss or smelled smoke in my studio...it could happen though.
     
    As it turns out ribbon mic makers are starting to make their mics more resilient to phantom power. Some of them play ok with it,some don't.
     
    It seems to be more of a problem if you hot plug into phantom power. I would not venture to play with that though. Make sure it's off if you use a ribbon mic.

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    wst3
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    Re: HOSA > LiveWire?? 2014/05/28 16:57:28 (permalink)
    Just a note that modern dynamic and ribbon (fwiw, ribbon microphones are dynamic) microphones will work just fine with phantom power. There were some ribbon microphone models from the old days that did not like to see 48V from tip or ring to sleeve... most have long since been modified to accommodate phantom power. All the new designs work fine.
     
    That is not to suggest that it is a bad idea to turn it off if you don't need it, but you don't have to worry about it either.

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    rumleymusic
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    Re: HOSA > LiveWire?? 2014/05/28 17:29:20 (permalink)
    Like Bill said.  Phantom power will not damage a standard dynamic microphone.  Older, unprotected ribbon microphones may incur some damage because the 48v DC bias of phantom power can cause the aluminum ribbon to bow outward and possibly rip it.  Most ribbon mics however block the DC completely with the transformer or with diodes.  And of course active ones require phantom power to run the built in amplifier.  
     
    As far as the OP, I am guessing the older Hosa cables use generic or Switchcraft connectors.  I have discovered that Neutrik connectors tend to be more susceptible to misc noises running up the ground pin.  You likely have USB noise issues which is common in bus powered interfaces like the Audio Box.  

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    quantumeffect
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    Re: HOSA > LiveWire?? 2014/06/03 01:28:33 (permalink)
    If you will allow me to quote from my CR1604-VLZ owners manual: "Phantom owes its name to an ability to be unseen by dynamic mics" 
     
    Personally, I have never had an issue using condensers in combination with dynamic mics through either of my Mackie boards.  Wrt ribbons, as a rule I use preamps with a ribbon mode when using a ribbon mics (more of a gain issue) but on a couple of occasions I've used them with phantom power on ... and have not had an issue.
     
    You could potentially have a problem if you have some sort of weird wiring issue but, your not making your own cables so I doubt that would concern you.
     
    The other place you may run into a problem (outside of having a collection of vintage ribbon mics) is with consumer unbalanced mics.

    Dave

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