J-A-G
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HOW TO RECORD GUITAR...FOR NOOBS
I am going to start to post questions in the hope that the answers/replys will help myself and maybe new home recording enthusiasts. I am hopeful that some of the fine folks here will give their opinions. A little about me...I have been playing guitar for around 30 years (off and on) and I have been starting to learn how to record to PC/DAW for about 3+ years. What is the best way to record an electric guitar into Sonar 8.5? This would be for either rhythm tracks or lead tracks. (assume lead may be dirty) One method that I use to record is to go from my guitar into to my Fender Cyber Deluxe amp and out thru the two outs in the back of the Cyber Deluxe (the amp has right and left outs) and in to my Firewire 410 instrument ins. I sometimes will use Guitar Rig 4 and Gear Box Gold and I see that that they have many choices for mike setup options. The Cyber Deluxe is a kick-ass amp with modeling and effects. If I want to use one of the sounds in my Cyber Deluxe is it best to mike my amp or use the method above? I have an AT4040 that I have only been using for vocals and acoustic guitar and am not sure how to get the best sound for electric. How would you set this up? Please do not respond that I should read a book...I do a lot of reading and can get a decent final track but the purpose of this is to get it better. Thank you and peace, John Here is my equipment PC Cooler Master Cosmos Case Q6600 CPU 4GB RAM 2TB HD Space GTX260 Software
Vista Ultimate 32Bit Sonar 8.5 Guirat Rig 4 POD FARM Dimension Pro Rapture Amp
Fender Cyber Deluxe Instruments Fender Stratocaster Hot Rodded American Fat Strat Texas Special Taylor 312CE Taylor 816CE Fender Precision Bass M-Audio Axiom 64 Hardware M-Audio Firewire 410 TonePort DI Mike-Audio Technica AT4040 Mike-Sennheiser e815s
post edited by Meno - 2009/11/11 15:37:07
Music is moral law. It gives soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to imagination, a charm to sadness, and life to everything...Plato https://soundcloud.com/#astrat www.meadowridgesound.com i7-2600k 3.40GHz, 16GB RAM, 5TB Multi-Drives, GTX-760, Windows 8.1 64bit, Sonar Platinum 64bit/32 bit, , RME-BabyFace, Dual 27in ASUS Monitors Sonar Platinum 64 and 32bit
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Jeff Evans
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Re:HOW TO RECORD GUITAR...FOR NOOBS
2009/10/23 21:36:21
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Hi John, if you have a guitar amp then the most common way to record is to connect the guitar to amp directly (or through effects) and mike the guitar cab. This captures the sound of the pre and power amp in the guitar amp, the speaker and the speaker box. Often a less expensive dynamic mike works for this eg shure SM 57. I usually point the mike at the edge of the speaker cone and on an angle similar to the angle of the speaker cone. Miking on the edge gives a slightly warmer sound. Or you can put the mike directly at the centre of the speaker right up close for a brighter more bite like sound. Now you can try this with your AT 4040 as well. If you have got two tracks available and a dynmaic mike, use two mikes on the speaker and try combining them in varying degrees for various tone colours. (Also if the guitar is the only sound being recorded, try one close (SM57) and another (AT4040) a few feet away to capture a different sound)
Using the line or preamp outputs on the back of the amp is sort of OK but it is only giving you the sound of the front end of the guitar amp and not much else.
Another option is straight into a DI and into Sonar and just use all the stuff you can throw at it to get a killer guitar sound eg Guitar Rig etc. Make sure your guitar feeds into a high impedance input like a DI or you will loose some valuable tone if trying to push a passive guitar direct into some line inputs of sound cards etc...(50Kohms impedance or higher for guitars going direct)
Of course if you have a nice guitar preamp then you could go through that and direct into Sonar as well. One thing I know is that modern plugins and preamps and things are getting so good it is becoming harder to tell if its the real amp and speaker or not. And above all remember the playing should be great and so great that it does not matter how you record.
Specs i5-2500K 3.5 Ghz - 8 Gb RAM - Win 7 64 bit - ATI Radeon HD6900 Series - RME PCI HDSP9632 - Steinberg Midex 8 Midi interface - Faderport 8- Studio One V4 - iMac 2.5Ghz Core i5 - Sierra 10.12.6 - Focusrite Clarett thunderbolt interface Poor minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas -Eleanor Roosevelt
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:HOW TO RECORD GUITAR...FOR NOOBS
2009/10/23 22:03:31
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"I have a AT4040 and am not sure how to get the best sound. How would you set this up?"
I'd put it in front of the amp and hit R.
If you put it behind the amp you may or may not want to switch the phase.
best,
mike
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batsbrew
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Re:HOW TO RECORD GUITAR...FOR NOOBS
2009/10/23 22:25:15
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keep it simple.
find a good spot in front of the mic....
if you can't get away from the amp sound while you're placing the mic, and monitor at the same time, then bother with actually recording a little bit, stop. playback, listen, and move the mic again.
the mic position, is key.
it's gold.
fractions of an inch, make the difference.
don't eq going in.....
don't add effects....
record dry, and go for broke.
keep your levels very conservative.
you can add 'jape' on mixdown.
eq, compression, reverb, delay, etc......
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J-A-G
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Re:HOW TO RECORD GUITAR...FOR NOOBS
2009/10/24 01:06:17
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So there you have it...I was clueless until now. I have had the mike for 4 years and never used it for the electric guitar, just my Taylors and vocals. I thought I had great sound going direct into Firewire. I am looking forward to hearing the difference.
Thank you for the responses and want you to know they are all extremely helpful and appreciated.
More comments welcome!
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Jeff Evans
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Re:HOW TO RECORD GUITAR...FOR NOOBS
2009/10/24 02:59:09
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Glad to help Meno. The interesting thing about miking guitar amps is that the big expensive mike does not always give you the best sound. (unless its a bit further away) I was producing an album with a guy a while ago and he had this really lovely Epiphone valve amp about 25 watts or so. I have got this very expensive large condenser mike (Rode Classic Mk 1) and no matter what I did we were always disappointed with the guitar sound. I then tried this cheap Shure PL 75 dynamic which is a vocal mike for female vocals apparently. I could not believe how great it sounded close up the the speaker, just like the amp did in the room. (I think because of the female vocal thing there may have been a dip between 2Khz and 5 Khz maybe not sure)
But I know that a Shure SM 57 will never let you down either in this department. But please try the AT4040 as well. You wont hurt it.
By the way Mike McCue mentioned miking the back of the cab and that is also a great idea too. If you use two mikes then you may have to consider switching the phase or inverting the polarity of one of them especially if one of them is around the back. Sonar lets you do that very easily on the tracks.
A really good thing to do is to position two mikes on the cab. One close and the other further away. If you can get a friend to try moving the one further away while you listen to the resultant sound in another room through monitors. As the moving mike is moved (further in and away etc) you will hear quite drastic tonal changes to the guitar sound even an inch or so makes a big difference. You need to be monitoring both mikes panned centre say while you do this. This is quite different EQ than any EQ plugin. You will be amazed at how it changes the sound. The idea is to settle on a sound and position that you ultimately like and leave it there.
There is a sound right near the speaker for sure but there is also a sound at the tip of the sound flame and that flame sticks out quite a bit for loud guitar amps. You just need to find it but when you do it roars.
Specs i5-2500K 3.5 Ghz - 8 Gb RAM - Win 7 64 bit - ATI Radeon HD6900 Series - RME PCI HDSP9632 - Steinberg Midex 8 Midi interface - Faderport 8- Studio One V4 - iMac 2.5Ghz Core i5 - Sierra 10.12.6 - Focusrite Clarett thunderbolt interface Poor minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas -Eleanor Roosevelt
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CJaysMusic
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Re:HOW TO RECORD GUITAR...FOR NOOBS
2009/10/24 08:19:10
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You can record guitar by:
1. micing an amp
2. using an outboard amp simulater, like DigiRP500, PodXT pro, or Boss GS10
3. going direct ibnto a hi-z input of your sound card and using VST's (software amp sims)
I can do 2 of the 3 at the same time or 3 at th esame time.
Cj
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batsbrew
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Re:HOW TO RECORD GUITAR...FOR NOOBS
2009/10/24 19:50:07
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i currently record mine by taking a line off the speaker out of my tube amp, directly into a Palmer PDI-09 DI, and i'm getting the best sound i've gotten in years.
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Guitarhacker
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Re:HOW TO RECORD GUITAR...FOR NOOBS
2009/10/24 21:54:56
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I use a POD2 99% of the time. The POD has an "air" feature that gives the sound of a miked cab. It works well for me. I have a Mesa Studio 22 that I have recorded a time or two. I like the convenience of the POD, and I can record with the girls in the next room asleep.
The whole point is this... whether you mic it or go direct..... keep experimenting until you get the sound you desire. Then stick with it.
My website & music: www.herbhartley.com MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface BMI/NSAI "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer "
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Spaceduck
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Re:HOW TO RECORD GUITAR...FOR NOOBS
2009/10/25 08:58:19
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Figured I'd throw in an unconventional method. Since 80% of my instruments are miked, after a while noise can be a problem. So I prefer to record guitars direct.
The problem is I don't have a power amp, and like Jeff said, if you record just the preamp out, it can sound thin. So I go from the gtr preamp into a tube mic preamp & then to a compressor/leveling amp (using pads the whole way). It really thickens up the sound, and noise remains low.
If I had a power amp, I'd be using that + a speaker emulator. But this way works pretty good; it's great for clean jazz or mean blues/rock. I haven't tried it on metal, though.
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batsbrew
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Re:HOW TO RECORD GUITAR...FOR NOOBS
2009/10/26 10:36:49
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spaceduck, you should read my reply.
that'd be perfect for you.
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Spaceduck
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Re:HOW TO RECORD GUITAR...FOR NOOBS
2009/10/26 12:03:58
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Yup, as a matter of fact I studied the thread a few months ago where you described your rig in detail. I'm almost there... I picked up a GT SEii on ebay last month (identical to the Marshall SE100 and very similar to the Palmer). All I need is a power amp, but I ran out of $$  I think by Xmas I'll have the perfect direct rig like yours. Hey if it's good enough for Eddie VH & Joe Satch, it's good enough for me!
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batsbrew
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Re:HOW TO RECORD GUITAR...FOR NOOBS
2009/10/26 13:57:07
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a low watt amp, just for your own monitoring, would be fine.
in fact, you could get away with using a home stereo amplifier/reciever.
but to drive a cab, for combining miced up amp sounds, with something like the palmer or the GT SEii, you'll want a tube power amp that is optimized for either clean headroom, or saturation for tube distortion..
all depends on what kind of sound you're looking for, usually one amp will not do both jobs, unless you get into an attenuator as well. that's what i do, with the addition of the Weber Mass Lite.
so for clean work, i've got an incredibly loud 60 watts to use, OR, if i'm driving the amp into total melt down nirvana, i can control the overall volume with the attenuator, yet the palmer (or GTSEii) sees the full output of the amp.
it's a great compromise for low volume recording, that still lets you drive a tube amp into it's 'sweet' spot, and keeps you from getting evicted.
and on those special sessions, that you can actually play loud, throw a mic on that sucker, and dial it in with the direct line in, or just go with the miced sound.
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batsbrew
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Re:HOW TO RECORD GUITAR...FOR NOOBS
2009/10/28 13:18:17
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the current recording rig: 
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batsbrew
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Re:HOW TO RECORD GUITAR...FOR NOOBS
2009/10/28 13:21:05
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and my other cab, when micing, i tilt up to de-couple it from the floor.. makes the lows sound/feel tighter.. with a medium condenser mic off axis 
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vinski
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Re:HOW TO RECORD GUITAR...FOR NOOBS
2009/10/28 15:07:50
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If you go DI and useGuitar Rig4 make sure you play around with the A/B Split tool. It's an absolute monster. As long as you've got the PC to handle it you can have different amps on both left and right with different effects chains. Works like a charm with the Control Room feature.
You probably already know this but I thought I'd refresh it in peoples minds!
Pentium D 2.8, SP3 2GB Ram, Nvidia Geforce 8600 GT HP vs19e, Samsung Synchmaster 2032BW Edirol FA-66 Evolution MK-225C Sonar 8.3.1
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J-A-G
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Re:HOW TO RECORD GUITAR...FOR NOOBS
2009/11/08 23:57:39
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batsbrew...
So the Palmer PDI-09 DI eliminates having to use a mike?
Meno
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batsbrew
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Re:HOW TO RECORD GUITAR...FOR NOOBS
2009/11/09 10:31:52
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spacey
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Re:HOW TO RECORD GUITAR...FOR NOOBS
2009/11/09 11:19:10
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Meno-"What is the best way to record an electric guitar into Sonar 8.5?" I wished when I started that I would have known somebody that had all the differenct ways and I could have just experienced them and made my mind up....cost a pretty good bit to find out on my own...and I'm not sure I'm done but probability is I'm not. Regards, Michael I deleted "book" part because it addressed the quoted question, but that wasn't the question as I understood it. The real question turned out to be- "I do a lot of reading and can get a decent final track but the purpose of this is to get it better." - I guess I'd have to hear it to know if I could make it better. Anyway "whatever works for you" as you stated below is something I sure agree with.
post edited by spacey - 2009/11/11 11:41:50
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J-A-G
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Re:HOW TO RECORD GUITAR...FOR NOOBS
2009/11/10 16:40:36
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spacey
I wished when I started that I would have known somebody that had all the differenct ways and I could have just experienced them and made my mind up....cost a pretty good bit to find out on my own...and I'm not sure I'm done but probability is I'm not.
This is the reason for my post...I want to get ideas from anyone willing to post them. I have been recording from my amp direct into the Firewire 410 and am getting what I thought were good results. But when I bought POD Farm/Gear Box I started to notice they had microphones in front of the amps and you could move them. I would have thought the signal would have been better going direct...I really have no clue when it comes to engineering audio. It’s funny...I bought Guitar Rig and Gear Box and not for nothing I still love some of the sounds I can get via the Cyber Deluxe amp. This amp is just kick-ass. When I have played with friends jamming this amp is like blowing all others away volume wise. So I guess my big question am I better going direct in or using a mike or...hum...both? HA! It is like I am finding out its what ever works for you. The pro's are probably gritting their teeth about now. :)
FYI...I posted my equipment up top in original message.
Thank you very much for your comment.
John
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