Bub 
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HVAC Wiring question
I replaced my double wall oven this weekend. The wiring for the old oven came off the top of the oven in the back through a metal conduit and in to a junction box in the wall back behind the oven. The new oven has the wires coming out of the bottom in a metal conduit and the instructions say to put the junction box below the oven. They are assuming there is a drawer or empty space below the oven. Makes sense, otherwise it will sit too low. (See page 2 of this PDF) I had to go buy a longer conduit and run it up alongside the oven and over the top to the junction box. Then I noticed that in the installation manual it says they use wire that has a higher heat rating on the shielding and a lower wire gauge. It says the current rating of wire isn't determined by the gauge alone, it is also determined by the heat rating of the shield. The service has to be #8, but the wire coming out of the oven is #10 with a higher heat tolerance on the individual wire shielding. I replaced it with #8, but with a lower heat rating. Do you think I'll be ok with the #8 I ran inside the conduit going up alongside the oven, or should I take it back out and use the original wire and put it underneath? Anyone know how hot it actually gets back there? There's not enough room for me to get my hands in below it, so I'm going to have to take a long drill bit and hook it up in the joists below. I can access that from the basement. Any thoughts appreciated. I checked on line and couldn't find any information on how hot it gets behind a wall oven.
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digi2ns
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Re:HVAC Wiring question
2012/11/06 19:03:19
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Bub
As long as you have a clean unbroken run of #8 from the breaker to your outlet for the stove in the conduit, IMO should be fine.
If I recall correctly #8 is good for a 30amp circuit. The Oven is set up for 20amp if it is wired with #10 indicating that the main line feeding the appliance wont get warm on ya.
If you can reach this spot from the basement Id just stab a fresh new circuit in thru the bottom directly to it as suggested in the install instructions.
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Guitarhacker
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Re:HVAC Wiring question
2012/11/06 19:15:03
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NEC Table 310-16 says #10 COPPER THHN wire is good to 40 amps THHN is rated 90 C or 194 F
I would however, if it was my house run #8 copper THHN which is good to 55amps @90C Circuit breaker at 50a unless the range nameplate tells you otherwise
Aluminum is rated lower current for the same size wire. I would NOT use AL wire. Special connectors are required that are AL rated.... or they will burn up.
Always opt for the higher temp rating on the insulation. The cost difference is negligible compared with the lower temp rated insulation.
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Bub
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Re:HVAC Wiring question
2012/11/06 19:35:48
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Thanks guys. What I'm ultimately concerned about is, the temperature of the oven causing problems with the lower heat rated wire I installed. I can't decipher from the manual if the higher heat rated wire they used was to save on copper, or to protect from the oven itself.
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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digi2ns
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Re:HVAC Wiring question
2012/11/06 20:12:26
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Yeh I was way off, been too long 14 for 15 amp 12 for 20 10 for 30 8 etc... Thanks Herb  But back to my point LOL I believe thats why they went with the larger on the main ckt feeding the appliance so heat would not an issue.
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Mystic38
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Re:HVAC Wiring question
2012/11/06 20:25:08
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Bub
Thanks guys. What I'm ultimately concerned about is, the temperature of the oven causing problems with the lower heat rated wire I installed. I can't decipher from the manual if the higher heat rated wire they used was to save on copper, or to protect from the oven itself.
I agree... there is a derating factor to be applied with excess heat.. the advice to have the JB below the oven is clearly associated with this in mind....as is their choice of wiring guage.. if you need to run the conduit up behind the oven i would err on the safe side and have higher heat rated and higher guage. (its only a few feet so cost isnt an issue)
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batsbrew
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Re:HVAC Wiring question
2012/11/06 22:07:01
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just wondering..
how is this a 'heating, ventilation and air conditioning' problem/issue?
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Bub
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Re:HVAC Wiring question
2012/11/06 23:47:04
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Thats funny .... i was thinking in my head, which is in a flabberghasted state at the moment for reasons im not at liberty to say, high voltace a. c. as in alternating current.
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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batsbrew
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Re:HVAC Wiring question
2012/11/07 10:16:38
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high voltage a.c.
LOL
that's good, i'm gonna use that one with my engineer geek dudes...
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Bub
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Re:HVAC Wiring question
2012/11/07 10:20:37
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Ask them about my oven wiring will ya.
:-)
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batsbrew
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Re:HVAC Wiring question
2012/11/07 11:30:00
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well, i would, but they'll just say 'hire a contractor'
heheh
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Karyn
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Re:HVAC Wiring question
2012/11/07 11:33:29
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High voltage? I thought you guys were limited to 110v...
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Bub
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Re:HVAC Wiring question
2012/11/07 11:45:34
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Karyn
High voltage? I thought you guys were limited to 110v...
Nope. Every house here in the U.S. has 220v coming in to it. It's split at the fuse box in to two 110v lugs. Well, let me correct myself before someone else tries to set their imaginary record straight ... Every home I've ever been to or seen has two 110v and 1 return lines. My oven is 220, stove is 220, dryer is 220. I'm sure, somewhere in the U.S., there is someone running their entire home off a single 110v lug. My apologies in advance. Please forgive me. :-)
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digi2ns
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Re:HVAC Wiring question
2012/11/07 12:07:24
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Your correct for the most part Bub Most do have 220vac coming into the main box 2 legs of 110 and a Neutral with the main box having a ground installed. Ive worked on some larger homes that had 3 Phase coming in but they were also powering shops on the same property as well. Someone correct if Im off but the purpose of the 208/220 is to balance the load across the circuits when powering larger appliances such as A/C, elect stove, water heaters, Air Handlers w/ heat strips, etc... I believe outside of that the only difference between us and Europe is the Cycles, 60 v 50 overseas OHHH and the oulets are different 
post edited by digi2ns - 2012/11/07 12:12:23
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Starise
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Re:HVAC Wiring question
2012/11/07 12:53:44
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Yeah you are better off Bub going with the larger wire direct from the breaker like digi2ins said. If you are concerned about heat coming from the oven I wouldn't worry if you ran the wire in a conduit. Those ovens don't get that hot on the sides and back. They are designed to be put in places that are close proximity to wood.
I am the HVAC guy but I regularly work with electricity. :) I wired my house and panels.
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Bub
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Re:HVAC Wiring question
2012/11/07 13:20:46
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Starise
Yeah you are better off Bub going with the larger wire direct from the breaker like digi2ins said. If you are concerned about heat coming from the oven I wouldn't worry if you ran the wire in a conduit. Those ovens don't get that hot on the sides and back. They are designed to be put in places that are close proximity to wood.
I am the HVAC guy but I regularly work with electricity. :) I wired my house and panels.
That HVAC thing is funny! I had it all spelled out but it was too long for the thread title so I went back and abbreviated never even thinking that it actually meant something else! :) I wired two houses in my time, one directly from transformer in the front yard before it was connected to the pole. I need to get up in the attic here at the new/old house and change some things. It's like someone wired this place to mess with you. For example, there's only one switch to turn the lights on in the living room and it's at the other end opposite the kitchen and dining room, so you have to go roaming around in the dark to turn the lights on. Some switches don't do anything, there's no vent in the main bathroom ... I got lots of electrical to do here, not to mention wire the basement before the holidays when company comes to stay, I'm setting up a room and some of them will be sleeping down there. Luckily there's no insulation in the attic to speak of so changing some electrical from above should be easy-ish! DOH! :-) Gotta go. :)
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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Starise
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Re:HVAC Wiring question
2012/11/07 13:34:16
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Good luck getting it all straightened out. I have a couple of three way switch circuits in my house I'm procrastinating on fixing, so we guess which switch turns the light on and off drives my wife crazy.
No vent in the bathroom? Sheesh man that could be a bad situation, I think someone is definitly messing with you lol.
Bub I know you know what you are doing but I would be really careful with that stuff we want to keep hearing from you in the future. I hope you aren't trying all of this with noone else there.
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Crg
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Re:HVAC Wiring question
2012/11/07 13:38:27
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Do you think I'll be ok with the #8 I ran inside the conduit going up alongside the oven, or should I take it back out and use the original wire and put it underneath? Anyone know how hot it actually gets back there? There's not enough room for me to get my hands in below it, so I'm going to have to take a long drill bit and hook it up in the joists below. I can access that from the basement. Yes, you should be fine. The #10 that came with the oven is probably machine wire which handles larger currents. As long as you have a proper ground in the conduit, the #8 will do fine. Your only concern should be adequate space behind the oven for the conduit and connection box.
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Psalmist35
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Re:HVAC Wiring question
2012/11/07 16:49:19
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Bub,
One thing that I noticed in the wiring diagram that no one has addressed is the requirement for a Nuetral (White) wire. This is different and seperate from the ground wire. I mention this because your comments indicatre that maybe some of the wiring methods in your home may be questionable. The ground wire will obviously protect the user from getting shocked. The netural is necessary to facilitate the correct operation of lamps in the oven, any control wiring or a clock for example. As a safety concern please verify that you have a seperate neutral and ground wire.
Rich
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Crg
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Re:HVAC Wiring question
2012/11/07 18:10:02
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Psalmist35
Bub,
One thing that I noticed in the wiring diagram that no one has addressed is the requirement for a Nuetral (White) wire. This is different and seperate from the ground wire. I mention this because your comments indicatre that maybe some of the wiring methods in your home may be questionable. The ground wire will obviously protect the user from getting shocked. The netural is necessary to facilitate the correct operation of lamps in the oven, any control wiring or a clock for example. As a safety concern please verify that you have a seperate neutral and ground wire.
Rich
Yep, that's important. 120/240-120/220. Two hot wires and a neutral and ground from the breaker box.
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