Ron Vogel
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Hands of God
A buddy of mine that I've worked with in the past hit me up on facebook about this. He's a recording engineer turned regional sales manager for a professional sound systems manufacturer. He has a pretty loaded PT studio in his house up north, and wants to try getting a mix out of this mess that I can't! So I took one last stab at it before I shipped him the files (I posted this a month or two ago). This is the new mix, and it's not bad I think. Please let me know if anything sticks out like a sore thumb. I plan on sending him my final mix as a rough draft for him to improve on. Link: http://www.soundclick.com/util/getplayer.m3u?id=7074218&q=hi
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rockyrose
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RE: Hands of God
2008/12/22 00:02:21
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Hey Ron, I love the tune , the bass and acoustic sound really nice and the wha is a cool touch. The thing thats catching my ear is the snare, it may have a little too much verb and it could probably come up a hair too.
Richard
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Bob Oister
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RE: Hands of God
2008/12/22 02:12:15
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Hi, Ron, cool song, really well written and nicely performed. I really like the layered vocal harmonies that come in around 2:27. The guitars sound great and the mix is clean. I do agree with Rich that there's something a little distracting about the sound of the snare drum, I can't quite put my finger on it, but it could probably blend a bit better with some slight EQ experimentation to keep it from "sticking out" so much.
Really nice job! Best wishes for the holidays!
Bob
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No How
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RE: Hands of God
2008/12/22 09:37:00
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Ron, this is a very good job. Reminds me a tad of Kansas. Very good band from 70s. Mix sounds good except drums (well played) sound a bit thin like they're in the kitchen or something...maybe just a tweek in the kind of verb. It'll be interesting to hear what your friend does with it. 
s o n g s – Beauty lodged in a bad hotel has no value. Raymond Lull
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Ron Vogel
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RE: Hands of God
2008/12/22 10:26:54
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Glad it's not just me then. The drums are and have been an issue to sit in the mix right. Doesn't help that I added some wall treatments in my room, and I'm getting used to how verb's sound so dry now. I added a lot of mids/upper mids to the snare so it would cut through and have more of a "crack" to it....Looks like I'll back those off. The other thing is the Ride/crashes/high hat. I pplayed with EQ a lot on those to get them to fit, and they just seem abnormal. They sound good alone, but not with the mix...but when I cut them the mix sounds dull. I may add some tamborine to experiment, it may give me the brightness I need, but sound a little tighter.
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No How
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RE: Hands of God
2008/12/22 10:45:49
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Ron,
I'm no pro at this but i was wondering if you put some compression on drums (snare) to give it an edge in the drum mix so you can then bring the mids and highs down a tad without losing it's presence. You may be able to put a dash of comp on the kick too if it sounds good. I've been experimenting with lots of different kinds of eqs and the 30 band seems to work in these situations...(although you've probably already been doing this).
Also...as you said, they sound ok by themselves but not in mix...try a 30 band on master buss for kicks too.
s o n g s – Beauty lodged in a bad hotel has no value. Raymond Lull
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ed_mcg
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RE: Hands of God
2008/12/22 10:55:14
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The biggest problem with the mix is the arrangement. The bass and the kick aren't on the same page during the main section so there's no pocket and the lead guitarist is doing he's own thing without listening to the others. But, you can't do much about that at the mix stage. Mix-wise, as noted the snare sounds trashy, I think some cut at 800Hz, a little more at 200Hz for some body and definitely less verb. Maybe cut some out of the bass at 250hz, it sounds a little woofy. The 2nd vox could come down a little to keep the lead out front.
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Philip
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RE: Hands of God
2008/12/22 13:42:51
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0.00000002 cents: I seriously cherished your last mix more than this one. (I thought it had the same name or something?) The 'vocoder' fails for me, mood wise ... then the lead-vox kicks in mid-way. (Frampton and rappers somehow get away with cheezy vox-boxes and mouth-tubes, but you and I might use them more sparingly) 2:28 ... your excellent hook/vox and may even replace the gimmicky vocoder (which I'd ditch). I know Rush and Stix save their renowned hook-chorus for last, oftentimes. Yes sometimes starts with the harmony-chorus. And you've only used the hook once!  Finally, there's just too much masking going on that fights every dominant element, vox, vox-box, guitar(s), etc. I'd add tape and 4-8 kHz presence to the vox, automate (room) reverb to everything in the lead-vox's way, pan-widen instruments to greater extremes, introduce your chorus at the start. JMO!
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Mamabear
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RE: Hands of God
2008/12/22 15:03:24
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Great tune. I love the passion (and killer vox) that come in at 2:27. Wow!
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Ron Vogel
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RE: Hands of God
2008/12/22 15:04:07
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ORIGINAL: Philip
0.00000002 cents:
I seriously cherished your last mix more than this one. (I thought it had the same name or something?)
The 'vocoder' fails for me, mood wise ... then the lead-vox kicks in mid-way. (Frampton and rappers somehow get away with cheezy vox-boxes and mouth-tubes, but you and I might use them more sparingly)
2:28 ... your excellent hook/vox and may even replace the gimmicky vocoder (which I'd ditch).
I know Rush and Stix save their renowned hook-chorus for last, oftentimes. Yes sometimes starts with the harmony-chorus. And you've only used the hook once!
Finally, there's just too much masking going on that fights every dominant element, vox, vox-box, guitar(s), etc. I'd add tape and 4-8 kHz presence to the vox, automate (room) reverb to everything in the lead-vox's way, pan-widen instruments to greater extremes, introduce your chorus at the start.
JMO!
Whoa, that's too much to do...lol The "vocoder" I think you mean is the slide guitar with a wah pedal on it. At this point, I am not going to rearrange the song. I know it is an unusal format, however it's really in essence a "protest" song. It isn't intended to be top 40 type stuff, it's just a widget between other compositions. I hear you on the vox...I am not into the sound on there. I wanted to squash and limit the crap out of them...but I tried that and it's not sounding like it does in my head. Either my equipment is not up to snuff, or my use of the compressor isn't! I took my original midi notes going into SD2, routed them to the TTS1, then bounced them to audio tracks...essentially doubling the drum instruments. I can mix the original lillty SD2 drums with a dry TTS1 layer. It really tightened up and beefed up the sound. I'm trying to work on it, but the wife is brow beating me to not "play" in the basement today. Hopefully I can get her to take the kids out for a little bit, then I can get back to "playing".
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Ron Vogel
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RE: Hands of God
2008/12/24 01:02:58
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Alright...took me longer than I thought it would due to unforeseen computer issues...but got back in the saddle tonight.
I doubled all the drum parts...so I used the original SD2 drums as my "wet" drums, and TTS1 for the dry...really tightened it up. And I went a little nuts with some backwash stuff you will probably never hear!
I just uploaded the new mix on soundclick, the original mix is on my Myspace page for comparison sake.
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Ron Vogel
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RE: Hands of God
2008/12/29 23:47:25
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Last bump, it just got a pretty decent review too!
I added tubular bells behind the slide guitar, and a sample to emphasize the transition to the chorus...it was the last addition before doing a little more EQ work. I think it's done!
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rockyrose
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RE: Hands of God
2008/12/30 00:32:29
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Sounds great Ron !! the snare sits alot better now. awesome vocal performances too.
Richard
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