mikebeam
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Har-Bal? Anyone use it?
Does anyone use this? It's significantly cheaper than, say, Ozone 7... http://www.har-bal.com/
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Leadfoot
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Re: Har-Bal? Anyone use it?
2016/01/20 08:44:16
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I heard that it's good, but I also seem to remember that there were some people who were spoken to pretty disrespectfully by their rep. I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure I'm remembering correctly.
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bitflipper
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Re: Har-Bal? Anyone use it?
2016/01/20 08:58:19
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It is indeed cheaper than Ozone, but is by no means a replacement for it. If those are the two products you're flipping a coin over, forget Har-Bal and spring for the real thing. If Ozone's cost is prohibitive, there are several less-expensive alternatives.
And yes, Leadfoot is remembering correctly.
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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mikebeam
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Re: Har-Bal? Anyone use it?
2016/01/20 10:03:37
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What are the less-expensive options? Bad reps are a big red flag for me! Any juicy stories?
I'm not really flipping between products, just thinking about what I could possibly need and why. As far as plugins I only have what came with Sonar - and I'm getting decent results. But curious to see if there are tools out there that would help up the results a little bit. (and I understand that it's probably more about practice and ear training than any plug-in...) I read somewhere that Har-Bal was great for learning - so that piqued my interest.
I was also looking at getting a couple of Waves Plug-ins. I downloaded the Ozone demo and wasn't blown away...
The only problem I'm finding with my Mastered Projects is that it lacks a "smoothness" quality... That's the best way I can describe it...
I'm still learning!
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mikedocy
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Re: Har-Bal? Anyone use it?
2016/01/20 10:04:57
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Har-Bal is an equalizer and limiter only. Not a complete mastering environment like Ozone.
Har-Bal would be used as a part of your mastering sequence.
The Har-Bal equalizer is unique in the way it operates. It gives you the average frequency response of your entire song displayed on the graph. You are then able to apply changes to EQ and get immediate visual feedback from the graph. When you are done adjusting the EQ you render the file. Note: Har-Bal is a stand-alone application only, not a plug-in.
I own and use Har-Bal but only use it on the more difficult jobs. It is a tool. It does what it is supposed to do.
FabFilter's Pro Q-2 has a similar feature named "Spectrum Grab". FabFilter Pro Q-2 displays the accumulated "peak" EQ while Har-Bal displays the accumulated "average" EQ.
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mikebeam
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Re: Har-Bal? Anyone use it?
2016/01/20 10:10:10
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What about Voxengo vs Waves vs Ozone vs Har-Bal?
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JonD
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Re: Har-Bal? Anyone use it?
2016/01/20 10:14:05
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I'm surprised the website still works. I hadn't heard any news from them for so long, that quite honestly, I thought they had closed up shop.
SonarPlat/CWbBL, Win 10 Pro, i7 2600K, Asus P8Z68 Deluxe, 16GB DDR3, Radeon HD5450, TC Electronic Impact Twin, Kawai MP11 Piano, Event ALP Monitors, Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro, Too Many Plugins, My lucky hat.
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charlyg
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Re: Har-Bal? Anyone use it?
2016/01/20 10:19:38
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For those of us still at the beginning of our Sonar journey, Nectar and Ozone give us presets to get us in the ballpark, and they deal with the heavy lifting. I pick a preset and fine tune....I wouldn't have a clue without them...
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mixmkr
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Re: Har-Bal? Anyone use it?
2016/01/20 10:20:29
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I've used HarBal a lot in the past, mainly to make backing tracks I used in live situations, be more consistent to each other, both in volume and EQ. That task was a tad tough at times with the variety of music I was playing, and using HarBal got them pretty well manageable and I wasn't just totally relying on the sound guy to keep my bass freqs in tact and volumes all over the place.
As far as the juicy...HarBal has been around for quite awhile and when it first hit the market, there where SO MANY nay-sayers, dissing the product. It's a very "visual" product, as you can see pretty much what is going on, but all the "golden ears" were saying you don't master with your eyes. Of course all the "minor league" [home] mastering guys that professed to make a living at it, totally slammed it, for obvious and some not so obvious reasons. There was also the idea with Harbal's inventor that you'd a reference track as a base, and then match up your [similar] music to it. Of course that idea was totally thrown to the dawgs.
Then..."Mr Harbal" made a couple of comments as a 'newbie' on the forums, and totally was piled on. No need to research. Imagine one of your more "vocal" forums and someone saying ProTools is for fools, and defending that concept.
If used LIGHTLY, the program is great and I believe actually works well. It has a unique EQ and does the job. It is a very visual learning experience and gives you the potential to see what's happening in HarBal...and then fix it in a 'better' program....as many have suggested. For home-brew mastering on the quick, it's fine but I think being overtaken by more full featured products. Heck...I don't see going out of SPlat in the near future for my measley home creations...
So...that's all I have to say about that!!!
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mikebeam
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Re: Har-Bal? Anyone use it?
2016/01/20 10:21:18
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mikedocy
Har-Bal is an equalizer and limiter only. Not a complete mastering environment like Ozone.
Har-Bal would be used as a part of your mastering sequence.
The Har-Bal equalizer is unique in the way it operates. It gives you the average frequency response of your entire song displayed on the graph. You are then able to apply changes to EQ and get immediate visual feedback from the graph. When you are done adjusting the EQ you render the file. Note: Har-Bal is a stand-alone application only, not a plug-in.
I own and use Har-Bal but only use it on the more difficult jobs. It is a tool. It does what it is supposed to do.
FabFilter's Pro Q-2 has a similar feature named "Spectrum Grab". FabFilter Pro Q-2 displays the accumulated "peak" EQ while Har-Bal displays the accumulated "average" EQ.
FabFilter Pro Q-2 seems pretty awesome!!
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mikedocy
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Re: Har-Bal? Anyone use it?
2016/01/20 10:23:12
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mikebeam
As far as plugins I only have what came with Sonar - and I'm getting decent results. But curious to see if there are tools out there that ...
The first thing that you need (if you don't already own one) is a good mastering limiter. Ozone, IK Multimedia, Voxengo, Waves, are the most common.
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mikebeam
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Re: Har-Bal? Anyone use it?
2016/01/20 10:27:48
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mikedocy
mikebeam
As far as plugins I only have what came with Sonar - and I'm getting decent results. But curious to see if there are tools out there that ...
The first thing that you need (if you don't already own one) is a good mastering limiter.
Ozone, IK Multimedia, Voxengo, Waves, are the most common.
Yes - I was thinking about starting there... I've been using the Nomad Factory plug-ins. The BT-Equalizer BX2S-3 seems to do the job of a mastering limiter - no?...
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mikedocy
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Re: Har-Bal? Anyone use it?
2016/01/20 11:05:06
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mikebeam
mikedocy
mikebeam
As far as plugins I only have what came with Sonar - and I'm getting decent results. But curious to see if there are tools out there that ...
The first thing that you need (if you don't already own one) is a good mastering limiter.
Ozone, IK Multimedia, Voxengo, Waves, are the most common.
Yes - I was thinking about starting there... I've been using the Nomad Factory plug-ins. The BT-Equalizer BX2S-3 seems to do the job of a mastering limiter - no?...
The peak limiter built into the BX2S EQ is certainly better than nothing but I think there is room for improvement if this is your current mastering limiter. Look for a "brickwall Limiter" or "Mastering Limiter". I know there is a free one available too but I can't think of the name. Somebody else (Bit?) please chime in here and let us know the name of the the free vst mastering limiter.
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batsbrew
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Re: Har-Bal? Anyone use it?
2016/01/20 11:13:02
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I use Har Bal.
older version.
works great.
i mostly use it to check my stereo premastered mixes..... the longer i've used it, the less i've needed it.
in other words, a great mixing tool..
i use it ONLY for subtle EQ changes.....
things that i can't dial in with my room and monitors...
i use WAVELAB to actually master,
and WAVES plugins, Linear phase EQ, linear Phase multiband, and L2 limiter comprises my entire chain.
i use PAZ analyzer across my master buss as i mix,
if i find any PHASE issues, i fix it in the mix,
and rarely have any,
and i also use DC cut as part of my tracking,
typically my stereo files have almost no DC showing up on the analysis.
to my ears, it sounds completely transparent.
i've never picked up on an anomalies, artifacts, nothing.
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mikebeam
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Re: Har-Bal? Anyone use it?
2016/01/20 11:13:49
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There is a Brick Wall Limiter and a Master Limiter as well... So, are the plug-ins that are available for purchase reaaaalllllyyyy better? I mean - is it worth shelling out the cash?
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Trankonia
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Re: Har-Bal? Anyone use it?
2016/01/20 11:18:09
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I have used both but with earlier versions. The main thing I remember about HarBal was the matching algorithms for imposing an EQ that matched a specific recording example. Ozone does that as well now but didn't at the time I used both. Ozone, IMHO, is quite good and there are numerous tube videos from various mix producers that show you how to best use it. It is Far more comprehensive than HarBal. As usual, it typically comes down to cost vs features and quality. I defer to others for suggestions of lesser priced solutions that may give the bang for the buck you are looking for.
I personally am very pleased with Ozone 5 Advanced edition but you have to look at any of the presets as just starting points.
Good luck
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mikedocy
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Re: Har-Bal? Anyone use it?
2016/01/20 11:26:35
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mikebeam
There is a Brick Wall Limiter and a Master Limiter as well... So, are the plug-ins that are available for purchase reaaaalllllyyyy better? I mean - is it worth shelling out the cash?
Brickwall Limiter and Mastering Limiter are synonomous for the purpose of this post. Go to your favorite search engine and search for "free vst mastering limiter". Here is a free one that gets good reviews: https://vladgsound.wordpress.com/plugins/limiter6/
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mikebeam
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Re: Har-Bal? Anyone use it?
2016/01/20 11:30:49
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Thanks. I bought a book on mastering a while back the mastering chain suggested was exactly what batsbrew is using... I kind of like that you've needed it less and less - you've learned from it. That's worth the money for me because I'm not entirely sure what I should be looking for...
Ozone advanced has too big of a pricetag for me... I'd rather buy individual plug-ins and piece together something. Especially since I'm in a learning phase...
Do Soundforge or Audacity factor into this discussion at all? Can they be used for mastering?
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charlyg
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Re: Har-Bal? Anyone use it?
2016/01/20 11:34:56
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The price tag was too big for me too, until the holiday/end of year specials brought it into my price range!
Just be patient and a lot of expensive software gets massively marked down......and get the LE/ essential versions of stuff so you can take advantage of upgrade sales next time....
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mikebeam
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Re: Har-Bal? Anyone use it?
2016/01/20 11:44:16
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mikedocy
mikebeam
There is a Brick Wall Limiter and a Master Limiter as well... So, are the plug-ins that are available for purchase reaaaalllllyyyy better? I mean - is it worth shelling out the cash?
Brickwall Limiter and Mastering Limiter are synonomous for the purpose of this post.
Go to your favorite search engine and search for "free vst mastering limiter".
Here is a free one that gets good reviews:
https://vladgsound.wordpress.com/plugins/limiter6/
Yeah - I'm going to work these until I see some mark downs or sales. I just picked this up - http://www.yohng.com/software/w1limit.html
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bitflipper
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Re: Har-Bal? Anyone use it?
2016/01/20 12:00:55
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That's actually a pretty good one among the freebies. Also grab LoudMax and Limiter No. 6 as long as you're experimenting with free plugins. I'd suggest waiting awhile and learning more about the process before investing in a top-tier limiter, so that when the time comes you'll be armed with knowledge to make an informed decision.
All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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mikebeam
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Re: Har-Bal? Anyone use it?
2016/01/20 12:11:42
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bitflipper
That's actually a pretty good one among the freebies. Also grab LoudMax and Limiter No. 6 as long as you're experimenting with free plugins.
I'd suggest waiting awhile and learning more about the process before investing in a top-tier limiter, so that when the time comes you'll be armed with knowledge to make an informed decision.
Agreed! I couldn't get the W1 to work. I did pick up the Loud Max and Limiter No. 6... As far as my ears can tell - the Blue Tubes Master Limiter sounds better on the track I plugged it into than the LoudMax, but who knows... I could get similar read-outs on my free analyzer.. Haven't delved into No. 6 - there's a lot there... Are the Top-Tier ones really better?
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bitflipper
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Re: Har-Bal? Anyone use it?
2016/01/20 15:22:56
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Yes, they are. But all of them give you enough rope to hang yourself with if you don't understand what it is you're trying to accomplish, how to go about getting there, and what compromises will be required in the process. It's not a small subject.
But if you want quick results with minimal learning curve, Ozone can't be beat. Even that one's not a walk in the park, but IMO is the best bet for beginners because so much of what it does is unseen, under the hood.
All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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NeoSoul
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Re: Har-Bal? Anyone use it?
2016/01/20 15:43:19
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For Limiting, I would strongly recommend looking into this: http://www.toneboosters.com/free/ basically you can get it for $5 if you buy a digital version of their current magazine, then go to the vault website they show in the magazine (enter specific question information to prove that you have the magazine) and then download it.
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mikedocy
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Re: Har-Bal? Anyone use it?
2016/01/20 16:08:01
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If you sign up for Computer Music on Google Play/Newstand, Google Play/Newstand gives you a 30 day trial for free.
So just sign up then cancel your subscription before the 30 days and you keep the issue and the vault for that issue.
I did it. Then I ended up resubscribing when they had the $1.00/month holiday offer.
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mikebeam
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Re: Har-Bal? Anyone use it?
2016/01/20 16:12:59
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NeoSoul
For Limiting, I would strongly recommend looking into this:
http://www.toneboosters.com/free/
basically you can get it for $5 if you buy a digital version of their current magazine, then go to the vault website they show in the magazine (enter specific question information to prove that you have the magazine) and then download it.
Thanks - I might just do that... bitflipper
Yes, they are. But all of them give you enough rope to hang yourself with if you don't understand what it is you're trying to accomplish, how to go about getting there, and what compromises will be required in the process. It's not a small subject.
But if you want quick results with minimal learning curve, Ozone can't be beat. Even that one's not a walk in the park, but IMO is the best bet for beginners because so much of what it does is unseen, under the hood.
What would be your opinion of the best... I'm not interested in minimal learning curve - I'm fine with a big learning curve and lots of practice... (I understand that's very subjective. Just curious)
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mikedocy
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Re: Har-Bal? Anyone use it?
2016/01/20 16:38:13
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mikebeam
What would be your opinion of the best... I'm not interested in minimal learning curve - I'm fine with a big learning curve and lots of practice... (I understand that's very subjective. Just curious)
At this point, Ozone would be the best for you. It contains everything required for mastering, including a mastering limiter. The next choice would be the T-racks mastering suite. It also contains everything you need including a mastering Limiter. If you only want a mastering limiter, get one of the free ones mentioned, prefer: Limiter #6. The best non-free are FabFilter, Voxengo, IK Multimedia. The internet is full of video resources on mastering. Watch as many videos as you can. Groove 3 also has a good series on mastering. Watch the videos then try applying these techniques to your recordings.
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NeoSoul
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Re: Har-Bal? Anyone use it?
2016/01/20 17:26:51
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mikedocy
If you sign up for Computer Music on Google Play/Newstand, Google Play/Newstand gives you a 30 day trial for free.
So just sign up then cancel your subscription before the 30 days and you keep the issue and the vault for that issue.
I did it. Then I ended up resubscribing when they had the $1.00/month holiday offer.
wow, I certainly would have subscribed for $1/month. Now I just pick them up periodically as they add something interesting. Excellent resource for quality plugins.
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Eddie TX
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Re: Har-Bal? Anyone use it?
2016/01/20 17:46:41
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The "best" mastering suite for any particular user depends on a lot of factors. That's why you ought to try several solutions to see which one best fits your needs.
I'll agree that the latest version of Ozone is certainly a contender for "best" in a lot of situations. Very hard to beat it with anything with a reasonable price. It's easy enough to get started with, and deep enough to do just about anything you'll ever need. The other suites mentioned above are worth a look, since you may prefer those. Never hurts to try other things.
Cheers,
Eddie
Sonar X3 Producer / Win 10 The future exists in all directions.
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S.L.I.P.
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Re: Har-Bal? Anyone use it?
2016/01/20 19:18:27
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Does anyone know if the Concrete Limiter is good for this?
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