One of the good things about digital is the fact that you can put part of your mix through console emulation and leave other parts untouched. Any system that forces you to put all the mix through it is silly in my opinion. Who says that console emulation is actually good. Some people are getting worked up to the point that they think they cannot live without it which is rubbish.
 
I am doing a lot of mixing right now and probably turning out mixes way superior to others here who are intent on using console emulation. It could be said it is over rated. It is a way for companies to get your money that is the short of it. They are playing on the fact that people think they cannot produce a great mix without it which is also untrue. The reality is it introduces distortion plain and simple and sometimes you don't need or want the distortion.
 
Don't worry I am not in the 32 bit is inferior camp either. Some people are getting all worked up about 64 bit (Freddie) but the truth is I could match any mix he is doing in 32 bit. 32 bit won't hold you back anywhere.
 
For myself and many the Harrison DAW is not a good idea. I use a lot of external Midi so yes it is inferior to me. It means I cannot use it. You do not need to transfer stems or tracks over into another DAW to get a great analog sound going these days. There are so many fabulous analog modeling VST's out there. UAD are leaders in this and have been for a long time. The finest tape simulator is not in the Harrison DAW either. It is elsewhere. Anyway who says you even need tape simulation. (I have got a real taperecorder too but I never use it)
 
The better your mixing gets the less and less you actually need in terms of processing to get it there. As I have said in previous posts on this, people make the mistake of thinking that the analog sound is the benchmark and we should do everything to strive for it. In many respects analog actually sucks. When you make digital the benchmark instead, everything changes and you start to realise just how bad analog can sound and how good digital sounds. Once you start pulling stellar mixes in an all digital world your desire to emulate any form of analog gets less and less and you save money too. The hard part is learning how to do the stellar mixes in digital.
 
I have owned several DAW's too and got into that using multiple DAW's to create music and produce etc..starting in one, transferring over to another etc but in the end all that sucks too. As I said before under pressure there is no time to do that actually and it is stupid as well. After all that I have ended up using one only (Studio One) and yes it can do everything.
 
Harrison are making you think it is built in and cannot be achieved any other way. I think it is a ploy to get you to spend money and buy their DAW. Simple as that. Others have produced very good console emulators without it being built in  to any DAW. Don't forget it is an all digital world and anything Harrison are doing ie built in can be done in any DAW as well. The only thing that is really built in is a real Harrison console. BTW I have fully restored an old Harrison desk and it is a bit over rated in my opinion too. It is very noisy in places and the Mic Pres and not that great compared to any decent modern Mic Pre as well. Yes the EQ circuits are nice but so are many today including emulations. There are so many places where faults can lurk too. (It also draws 1200 watts of power!!!The one I was using needed a special air con for the power supply otherwise it would have self destructed, it got so hot and it blew up regularly!) We have technology now that far exceeds any old Harrison mixer so get with it and use it! (Note: I have mixed quite a lot on an analog Harrison mixer with a 2" 24 track tape machine so I know it very well. So you say I have never used it but in fact I have used the real thing, something many here would not have experienced. Now I have a Yamaha digital mixer and DAW and to be honest it eats it alive!)
 
There is some old basics here. Great mixes produced on Harrison consoles are the result of the great people doing the mixes, not the console. Those great people today mixing on any modern technology are going to still get a great or even better mix.

I'm winding this down....because it's ridiculous...
 
A Neve Console does not "sound" like an SSL 4000...
An API 550 A Console does not "sound" like a Neve Console
A Harrison Console does not "sound" like any of the others either,
as a it doesn't sound like a "Trident" console...or a Helios Console...or a REDD Console....ad nauseum...
 
Your point is it's not FOR YOU because YOU use and need MIDI....so just say that and stop jumping through the "hoops" 
and calling the product "inferior" because it doesn't do what you want it to do or would use it
for...it's NOT inferior because it lacks a "FEATURE" that YOU require - THAT IS AND HAS BEEN MY POINT!

No SANE Mix Engineer would deny that a "sound" is the result of the MANY factors,
including the ANALOG signature of the desk...as well as the signatures for the outboard
gear used as well.....to say otherwise is LUDICROUS....

I'm glad you've patted yourself on the back for your outstanding mixes...great...
if that makes you happy...wonderful...
 
But don't bash a product you've never used (the DAW) and call it "inferior" without having tried it
or used it...just because it doesn't have a "feature" that you REQUIRE....

Sonar doesn't have VST 3...that doesn't make it "inferior" to others...
it simply makes it lack a FEATURE....

Did you ever consider the REMOTE possibility that the Harrison Board you "restored" was done "improperly"
or, heaven forbid, you made an "error" and THAT is why it overheated on a regular basis?

I don't think MAJOR MOTION PICTURES STUDIOS and MAJOR RECORD LABELS would pay that kind of 
money (millions) for a console that didn't do SOMETHING that others don't....IJS...(and they don't overheat either, at
least not that I'm aware of)
 
To me it's a PURE DUH moment....

People are just HELL BENT on being ****ed to "prove" their point, regardless of "reality"
and reality says that consoles sound different..and THAT is what
this ENTIRE discussion was about in the first place...and THAT
is why there are so many "EMULATIONS" of CONSOLES.....DUH....
not to mention the fact of how the "summing" of a "Console" effects the Stereo Field...
 
So we've learned from this discussion that YOU
 
a) have VASTLY superior Mixing Skills
b) don't like ANYTHING that you DON'T use, regardless of it's QUALITY
c) have no "objectivity" whatsoever
d) if it doesn't do MIDI it is "INFERIOR" as YOU require and use MIDI
e) YOU use UAD, so they are what should be used
f) you restored a Harrsion Desk, and YOUR restoration FAILED and OVERHEATED
    while LITERALLY hundreds of other Harrison Desks are out there producing MAJOR MOTION PICTURES
    and MAJOR HIT RECORDS without overheating and are VERY HIGHLY RESPECTED AND USED BY INDUSTRY PROFESSIONALS

I guess that about sums it up...

I just posted about the update, and answered your question about the LOGIC
of purchasing it.....and got a response from you that called the product inferior...without YOU ever having used the program...

THAT WAS MY POINT....

Harrison didn't MAKE me (or ANYONE for that matter) think anything BTW....I BOUGHT and USED the program and I can HEAR the difference!!
As I stated previously....and many others here also (who have used the program) can HEAR the difference...and it's NOT Kool-Aid by any means...

And GREAT Mix Engineers will tell you  (and they do FREQUENTLY - i.e. Dave Pensado, Manny Marroquin, CLA, JJP, Eddie Kramer, etc) why they PREFER to use a PARTICULAR CONSOLE...


FOR THE SOUND IT GIVES....DUH (and THEY can hear the difference also...)!!!
 
And Strammy...I REALLY expected a little more "objectivity" from you...
have you even been reading this thread?

And all this pure stupidity and ranting over a $39 program that you've NEVER EVEN USED?  WOW....you boyz really need to get lives...

Oh, here's a tiny tidbit of information...YOU WILL NEVER EVER GET A MIX TO SOUND LIKE ONE OF THEIR MIXES!!!
Why? you may ask...because you don't have HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS of the REAL equipment to do the mix with...
because NO EMULATION and NO DAW and NO commercial Mixer will EVER sound like a mix done on a REAL CONSOLE and REAL hardware
for the same reason that NO Amp Simulator will EVER sound like a REAL AMP!!!

And YOU don't have a multi-million dollar MASTERING facility to utilize....

These guys only use plugins for "enhancement" to the hardware they use for their mixes....THAT is a fact...
and it is THAT hardware that IMPRINTS it's SOUND onto their DAW (@Null as you've pointed out)....and that creates HIT RECORDS...DUH!!!

They keep US out here looking for the MIRACLE plugin/DAW that will do what they do...and it's a pointless search, as we CANNOT!!!
(not to say that we can't do a splendid job...BTW)

I'm done with this thread...thank you very much and good night!

interesting thread! i guess the point Jeff is that you wouldn't use the Harrison Mixbus if you wanted a clean mix as its only purpose must be to colour the sound (add distortion/3rd order harmonics or whatever) to supposedly make a more pleasant summed sound; exactly the same idea as the ProChannel console emulator, the Slate VCC etc etc.
These things can sound great on certain genres whereas you probably wouldn't want it on your wind quintet recording. 
Where i do agree with you totally Jeff is why they wouldn't make it either a plug-in or Rewireable so you can use it to route your audio through from within whatever DAW is your main thing...

mgh
interesting thread! i guess the point Jeff is that you wouldn't use the Harrison Mixbus if you wanted a clean mix as its only purpose must be to colour the sound (add distortion/3rd order harmonics or whatever) to supposedly make a more pleasant summed sound; exactly the same idea as the ProChannel console emulator, the Slate VCC etc etc.
These things can sound great on certain genres whereas you probably wouldn't want it on your wind quintet recording. 
Where i do agree with you totally Jeff is why they wouldn't make it either a plug-in or Rewireable so you can use it to route your audio through from within whatever DAW is your main thing...

Harrison MixBus uses a program called JACK to connect to another DAW so you can mix with it....

'Jack' while looks interesting may not be the solution either. On their website it says Windows installs a simple version of Jack which other apps do not see. What does that mean? Does it mean that Jack can see other apps but not the other way around.
 
Later on the website it mentions that 'Jack' can be connected with other apps as long as they are Jack compatible. Sort of rules out apps like Studio One for instance.
 
I would be impressed with Mixbus if you could still run your own app and route audio through Mixbus and back. That would be a step in the right direction. Does not look like it though, yet anyway. And only if you wanted it remember.
 
I meant they are not making consoles for audio production so much these days. They seem to be into high end motion picture consoles and TV and broadcast stuff which is great but does not help the humble audio engineer. Probably why they have created Mixbus instead to replace it. Bit like the Fairlight. They don't make synthesisers anymore either but now are into something very different. (TV and Film Post Production workstations) Although they did bring back the Failrlight synthesiser for a brief time but did a very limited run and I am sure they were all snapped up too.
 
It is very easy to get carried away with all the blurb on their website. I can point you to a hundred other websites that convincingly detail and praise their products just as much. And all with glowing reviews too.
 
 
 
 

cclarry
And Strammy...I REALLY expected a little more "objectivity" from you...
have you even been reading this thread?

Every word Larry - I'd already posted in this thread (after coming over from the similar thread in the SONAR forum).
 
I think I'm pretty objective, and I'm enjoying every aspect of the differing opinions in this thread. I certainly didn't 'agree' with what Jeff said, I merely commented on how interesting his post was. I've picked up a lot of great advice from Jeff over the years, and I have a lot of respect for him - he certainly knows his stuff, and has the knack of getting it across to others.
 
I totally respect your views in this thread as well, and the post from which I've extracted this quote really sets out a logical and intelligent argument to the points Jeff raised.
 
It seems you both have the intellectual ammunition to back up your opinions, and I'm simply enjoying the discussion, mainly because I am seriously tempted to purchase Mixbus at the $39 blow-out price to add another string to my mixing bow.
 
Anyway, I hope we're still cool Larry.
 
 

cowboydan
Hello everyone.
 
Let's not get overheated like the power supply.
I believe the whole subject being addressed here is starting to go south in a big hurry.
I own mixbus and I really notice a difference in the tracks I put in and what comes out of my monitors. I am getting the idea that no one is really using those two floppy things on the side of their head in order to discover the difference.
Those two floppy things are (believe it or not) EARS.
But now we come to the realisation that everyone has a different feel of sound. That is probably why there are so many Genre's to choose from. And it is also a fact that some people have lost part of their hearing and therefore cannot hear everything that a DAW brings.
 
As for the power supply I believe that the power supply should have a normal working temperature of about 50 to 60 degrees. If the supply has been too hot all the time means thet it is either constructed wrong or that the wrong parts were used. Behringer has this same problem with it's equipment. Not enough cooling.
 
I guess what I really wanted to say is to enjoy  music. You have to use your ears and be able to hear differences in what your working on or listening to.
You could have a 2 million dollar studio with everything you wanted in it, but if you can't use your ears what good is it.
 
Just make,mix,master music and be thankful you can still hear what you're doing.
 
Danny

Thanx Danny...I agree wholeheartedly...

Thanx for the info Scook!!
 
I sit corrected...=P

...Do you know how many authorisations you can have with MixBuss?...
 
I didn't see that this question early in the post ever got answered, so from their site:
 
What is the Mixbus user license?  If I have a desktop and a laptop computer, can I install it on both?

...Yes.  Mixbus is licensed to a "single user".  This means that as long as you are the only user, you can install it on all of your personal computers. If multiple people will be using the software, you will need to purchase a license for each user.  Commercial businesses and educational facilities should purchase a license for each computer...  
 
HTH

I got Mixbus because it seemed like a good deal for 40 bucks, but when I scan for my vst's I keep getting--" WARNING : Cannot get VST information from etc. etc." (etc being my folder locations). I really need my ARC, but it doesn't see it. Anyone else had this problem? Thanks.

Thanks Carl. I tried making a seperate folder as well, but it didn't work. I'll try again. It's almost like Mixbus is scanning all vst folders no matter which one I choose for the path, and is getting confused by the 64 bit plugs I have.

THanks for your reply, Jeff. The problem is the plugs aren't loading at all and are not shown in the list of available plugs in the insert dialogue. It's strange that some like IKM CSR are loading ok, but IKM TRacks plugs are not and they are all in the same location. I'll keep pluging (pun intended) away! Thanks again. Milt.