Has anyone used the ARC2 mic for anything else?

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sharke
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2014/06/11 11:38:54 (permalink)

Has anyone used the ARC2 mic for anything else?

I tried it on some acoustic guitar last night and it sounded alright. Not as nice as my AKG, but different. I was thinking about using it to try some stereo guitar recordings since I have no experience with that. Are you supposed to point them up at the ceiling as per the manual, or is that just for taking ARC measurements?

James
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    Karyn
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    Re: Has anyone used the ARC2 mic for anything else? 2014/06/11 12:22:03 (permalink)
    The ARC mic is nothing special in itself, it's just an omni-pattern condenser.  What makes it special to ARC is the software knows the precise frequency response it should have and thus can give a good approximation of a "flat" measurement mic.
     
    To use any thin pencil shaped mic for recording you should point the thin end towards the source and the cable away from the source.  When used for room measurement you have the cable towards the ground to get the least interference in the sound waves created by the mic body, stand and cable.
     
     

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    sharke
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    Re: Has anyone used the ARC2 mic for anything else? 2014/06/11 14:29:13 (permalink)
    Ah that's interesting, I did not know that, thanks.

    James
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    Beepster
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    Re: Has anyone used the ARC2 mic for anything else? 2014/06/11 15:10:06 (permalink)
    If I spent the cash on ARC I'd probably keep the mic in hermetically sealed box (or as close to one as I could get) until I was going to test my room again to keep as new as possible. I'm assuming any kind of dust, wear and tear or other degradation could reduce its effectiveness at properly doing its job.
     
    That's just me though and I don't really understand how such things work. ;-)
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    The Maillard Reaction
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    Re: Has anyone used the ARC2 mic for anything else? 2014/06/11 16:16:26 (permalink)
    "The ARC mic is nothing special in itself, it's just an omni-pattern condenser.  What makes it special to ARC is the software knows the precise frequency response it should have"
     
    Minor correction: The ARC software sorta, kinda knows the generalized frequency response of the cheap Chinese omni mic they send out with the kit. How do I know? I asked IK_Obi to ask his *people* and that's what he told me.
     
    I have a similar cheap omni Chinese mic that I use with my RTA, but I sent my mic off to a test facility and it came back with a calibration file that I loaded into the RTA, which means that for a couple of months my software knew the precise frequency response the mic should have Now, it is probably just sort of close but it's a lot closer than the systems that rely on a broad generalization.
     
    best regards,
    mike
     
     
    edit grammar
    post edited by mike_mccue - 2014/06/11 18:40:45


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    sharke
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    Re: Has anyone used the ARC2 mic for anything else? 2014/06/11 16:25:55 (permalink)
    Beepster
    If I spent the cash on ARC I'd probably keep the mic in hermetically sealed box (or as close to one as I could get) until I was going to test my room again to keep as new as possible. I'm assuming any kind of dust, wear and tear or other degradation could reduce its effectiveness at properly doing its job.
     
    That's just me though and I don't really understand how such things work. ;-)


    I've thought about that but have decided that when the time comes, I'll just give it a quick blow across the top. Should be sweet.

    James
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    Karyn
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    Re: Has anyone used the ARC2 mic for anything else? 2014/06/11 17:36:52 (permalink)
    mike_mccue
    "The ARC mic is nothing special in itself, it's just an omni-pattern condenser.  What makes it special to ARC is the software knows the precise frequency response it should have"
     
    Minor correction: The ARC software sorta, kinda knows what the generalized frequency response of the cheap Chinese omni mic they send out with the kit. How do I know? I asked IK_Obi to ask his *people* and that's what he told me.
     
    best regards,
    mike
    mike, I did say, and you included it in your quote, that the software knows the frequency response the mic should have...

    I have a Beyerdynamic MM 1 that I use for RTA with my PA. You shove it on a stand roughly where most of the audience will be and an auto setup routine will set the graphic eqs on all the outputs and add any delays to sync the mains and any repeaters with the back line...

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    The Maillard Reaction
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    Re: Has anyone used the ARC2 mic for anything else? 2014/06/11 18:43:01 (permalink)
    Point taken Karyn!
     
    I should  have recognized that detail.
     
    :-)


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    Guitarhacker
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    Re: Has anyone used the ARC2 mic for anything else? 2014/06/19 08:55:57 (permalink)
    I used the ARC mic to record some acoustic guitar. It captures a slightly different sound than my Rode, but aside from that, it's a mic and therefore can be used for recording.
     
    Ultimately, what it comes down to, is your ability to use EQ and whatever other things you work with to get a good tone out of the speakers.
     
    One thing I have noticed over the years here in the cake forums is that we have people here using all sorts of mic from the very nice, and costly ribbons and high end condenser mics to the bargain bin el-cheapo "this is all I can afford" mics that are routinely priced under $100. Heck, I recall someone several years back bragging on a $59 condenser they had bought and recorded with, and yeah, the mic did a fine job.
     
    So, if you want to use the ARC mic, my thoughts are, have a go at it. You certainly won't hurt it. Additionally, with time, and experimenting, you may find that it actually does a fine job on certain instruments where a more expensive mic won't.

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    Danny Danzi
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    Re: Has anyone used the ARC2 mic for anything else? 2014/06/20 16:35:50 (permalink)
    sharke
    I tried it on some acoustic guitar last night and it sounded alright. Not as nice as my AKG, but different. I was thinking about using it to try some stereo guitar recordings since I have no experience with that. Are you supposed to point them up at the ceiling as per the manual, or is that just for taking ARC measurements?



    We have two different ARC mic's, Sharke. I have the first one for ARC 1 and we bought the other for the other studio which came with a mic that has a different serial number. You know how the software asks you which mic you have? We have both since we bought at different times.
     
    We've actually used both mic's on acoustic guitar with very good results. I have a little test idea around here somewhere. If I can find it, I'll post it up. Honestly man, you can make any mic sound decent with the:
     
    a) right guitar
    b) right player
    c) right execution
     
    We happened to have just set the mic's up while not paying attention to them, noticed they were both "hot" and played a guitar near them. I gotta find the file...it's pretty cool considering we did absolutely nothing and didn't even strategically place them or anything. :)
     
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    Danny Danzi
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    Re: Has anyone used the ARC2 mic for anything else? 2014/06/20 16:59:53 (permalink)
    I found it Sharke!
     
    https://dl.dropboxusercon...20By%20The%20River.mp3
     
    My engineer at the other studio Joey was playing this and it later became a pretty killer tune that we wrote. Just the ARC mics and an old Ibanez acoustic right into Sonar with a little light compression going in by default. All our input channels have a little comp enabled while going in. This was like a 2:1, -10 thresh, 4.0 ms attack, auto-release.
     
    We used a very small amount of Breverb when it first came out in whatever version of Sonar that was and we were just messing around. It's not great or anything, but it's not terrible either. The only thing we did to it was eq it to sound decent. You know...high pass/low pass and just eq to taste. But we didn't do any major processing or turd polishing. :)
     
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    The Maillard Reaction
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    Re: Has anyone used the ARC2 mic for anything else? 2014/06/20 19:20:41 (permalink)
    Danny Danzi
    it's pretty cool considering we did absolutely nothing and didn't even strategically place them or anything. :)
     
    -Danny




    That is the beauty of an omni mic. They usually sound pretty good and sound very much like what you hear with your ears. They are similar to your ears in that their placement is much less critical than something like a hyper cardiod pattern microphone.


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    sharke
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    Re: Has anyone used the ARC2 mic for anything else? 2014/06/20 23:07:32 (permalink)
    That actually sounds amazing Danny. I need to experiment more with placement etc. I only tried it very briefly with a nylon string guitar. The results sounded pretty nice but not fantastic. I had it pointed about 6-8 inches away from the 12th fret. Basically I'm a complete newbie when it comes to miking up acoustic guitars so this is a whole new area for me. Since I started getting back into music I've primarily messed with synths and samples, largely because of the convenience and the fact that I don't have a lot of time in the day to be musical. But it's a shame because if I do say so myself, I'm actually a pretty accomplished fingerstyle guitarist. I really need to get it together to have my steel string repaired. It's an amazing sounding hand made job and it got neglected for years because I became a classical nut for a while. Once I get it fixed I want to get into recording guitar. I've been tempted by all of these expensive and great sounding acoustic guitar libraries, but what's always stopped me from forking over the cash is this loud inner voice which says "Are you nuts? Did you spend the last 25 years playing guitar like a banshee just to click guitar parts into a piano roll with a mouse?"....lol!

    James
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    Danny Danzi
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    Re: Has anyone used the ARC2 mic for anything else? 2014/06/21 13:34:20 (permalink)
    sharke
    That actually sounds amazing Danny. I need to experiment more with placement etc. I only tried it very briefly with a nylon string guitar. The results sounded pretty nice but not fantastic. I had it pointed about 6-8 inches away from the 12th fret. Basically I'm a complete newbie when it comes to miking up acoustic guitars so this is a whole new area for me. Since I started getting back into music I've primarily messed with synths and samples, largely because of the convenience and the fact that I don't have a lot of time in the day to be musical. But it's a shame because if I do say so myself, I'm actually a pretty accomplished fingerstyle guitarist. I really need to get it together to have my steel string repaired. It's an amazing sounding hand made job and it got neglected for years because I became a classical nut for a while. Once I get it fixed I want to get into recording guitar. I've been tempted by all of these expensive and great sounding acoustic guitar libraries, but what's always stopped me from forking over the cash is this loud inner voice which says "Are you nuts? Did you spend the last 25 years playing guitar like a banshee just to click guitar parts into a piano roll with a mouse?"....lol!




    Thanks Sharke. :) Definitely play it live brother and don't get into those libraries unless you really have to. I think the thing that keeps me going in this field is challenging myself to play new instruments. God has definitely blessed me with the ability to make noise on a few instruments which adds to the fun. For example, the most fun I have when recording...is playing bass. I absolutely love it. Though programs like Trillian are cool, there's nothing like the real thing while PLAYING the real thing. It not only makes your production sound better, it brings (for me) some fun into the equation. :)
     
    One thing I will say....and this is nothing against the ARC mics....but that guitar sounds good no matter what we put on it. This is more proof that the instrument is just as important as the capture. Honest when I tell you, we did nothing to that print. As a matter of fact, one side is hotter than the other because of the placement and the mic's aren't the same model #. Not sure how much THAT aspect comes into play, but the left one sounded a bit better to me where the right one was the older mic. In any case, they are definitely cool to record with if you need them. They have even worked for me in an over-head situation and I even used one of them on hats one time.
     
    It's weird Sharke...I have this incredible mic locker yet in certain situations, the nice mic's will ruin a mix so fast it will make your head spin. Sometimes you get clients in with really cheap instruments. I try to get them to use some of my stuff whenever I can...but that would be like me using someone else's stuff, so I get it. But with the lower quality instruments....it can make them sound even worse with really good mics. Sometimes lower grade mics actually can hide some of the bad stuff sort of like tape compression/saturation low passing some annoying digital highs. So it's good to have mic's like this in certain situations.
     
    I'd think your nylon string guitar would probably sound really dark with the ARC mic. Try this if you get a minute. Stay at the 12th fret like you're doing, but go as close as you can without touching your fretting fingers. If the sound appears a little dark, tilt the mic towards the headstock a little at a time while still keeping it close to the neck. Think of your neck like a speaker cab. Tilting towards the bowl makes it darker...towards the headstock makes it a little brighter. You can try tilting up or down as well.
     
    OR....with lesser quality mics, this has always worked for me. Put it where your ears hear it the best and literally set the mic up side-ways like your ear canal is so the mic is not shooting directly at the sound. 45 degree or 90 degree sometimes works...other times, shoot it directly at the sound source and see how you fair. You'll have to use a bit more pre-gain if you get distant and will get a little room in the print, but sometimes it's just what the doctor ordered. Best of luck brother. :)
     
    -Danny

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    michaelhanson
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    Re: Has anyone used the ARC2 mic for anything else? 2014/06/21 14:41:26 (permalink)
    Ha! I share your bass enthusiasm Danny, it's the track that I enjoy working out and playing the most; I look forward to that part of the songs construction.

    You also hit the nail on the head with the quality of the instrument being a BIG part of the track captures quality.

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    Guitarhacker
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    Re: Has anyone used the ARC2 mic for anything else? 2014/06/22 08:22:35 (permalink)
    There's definitely a different mindset going on when you have a neck in your hands and 4 fat strings under your fingers that can't easily be replicated on a keyboard with a sampler.
     
    Just how I see it.

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    sharke
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    Re: Has anyone used the ARC2 mic for anything else? 2014/06/24 01:15:52 (permalink)
    Danny Danzi
    sharke
    That actually sounds amazing Danny. I need to experiment more with placement etc. I only tried it very briefly with a nylon string guitar. The results sounded pretty nice but not fantastic. I had it pointed about 6-8 inches away from the 12th fret. Basically I'm a complete newbie when it comes to miking up acoustic guitars so this is a whole new area for me. Since I started getting back into music I've primarily messed with synths and samples, largely because of the convenience and the fact that I don't have a lot of time in the day to be musical. But it's a shame because if I do say so myself, I'm actually a pretty accomplished fingerstyle guitarist. I really need to get it together to have my steel string repaired. It's an amazing sounding hand made job and it got neglected for years because I became a classical nut for a while. Once I get it fixed I want to get into recording guitar. I've been tempted by all of these expensive and great sounding acoustic guitar libraries, but what's always stopped me from forking over the cash is this loud inner voice which says "Are you nuts? Did you spend the last 25 years playing guitar like a banshee just to click guitar parts into a piano roll with a mouse?"....lol!




    Thanks Sharke. :) Definitely play it live brother and don't get into those libraries unless you really have to. I think the thing that keeps me going in this field is challenging myself to play new instruments. God has definitely blessed me with the ability to make noise on a few instruments which adds to the fun. For example, the most fun I have when recording...is playing bass. I absolutely love it. Though programs like Trillian are cool, there's nothing like the real thing while PLAYING the real thing. It not only makes your production sound better, it brings (for me) some fun into the equation. :)
     
    One thing I will say....and this is nothing against the ARC mics....but that guitar sounds good no matter what we put on it. This is more proof that the instrument is just as important as the capture. Honest when I tell you, we did nothing to that print. As a matter of fact, one side is hotter than the other because of the placement and the mic's aren't the same model #. Not sure how much THAT aspect comes into play, but the left one sounded a bit better to me where the right one was the older mic. In any case, they are definitely cool to record with if you need them. They have even worked for me in an over-head situation and I even used one of them on hats one time.
     
    It's weird Sharke...I have this incredible mic locker yet in certain situations, the nice mic's will ruin a mix so fast it will make your head spin. Sometimes you get clients in with really cheap instruments. I try to get them to use some of my stuff whenever I can...but that would be like me using someone else's stuff, so I get it. But with the lower quality instruments....it can make them sound even worse with really good mics. Sometimes lower grade mics actually can hide some of the bad stuff sort of like tape compression/saturation low passing some annoying digital highs. So it's good to have mic's like this in certain situations.
     
    I'd think your nylon string guitar would probably sound really dark with the ARC mic. Try this if you get a minute. Stay at the 12th fret like you're doing, but go as close as you can without touching your fretting fingers. If the sound appears a little dark, tilt the mic towards the headstock a little at a time while still keeping it close to the neck. Think of your neck like a speaker cab. Tilting towards the bowl makes it darker...towards the headstock makes it a little brighter. You can try tilting up or down as well.
     
    OR....with lesser quality mics, this has always worked for me. Put it where your ears hear it the best and literally set the mic up side-ways like your ear canal is so the mic is not shooting directly at the sound. 45 degree or 90 degree sometimes works...other times, shoot it directly at the sound source and see how you fair. You'll have to use a bit more pre-gain if you get distant and will get a little room in the print, but sometimes it's just what the doctor ordered. Best of luck brother. :)
     
    -Danny




    Thanks for that Danny, I'm going to have a big sit down and play with miking my nylon string this weekend. You're right, it did sound dark with the ARC mic. I'm going to try tilting it toward the headstock this time. First things first though, I need to put on a new set of strings, those haven't been changed for a while 
     
    I know what you mean about high quality gear exposing the bad stuff...kind of reminds me of something a friend told me years ago. He worked in an audiophile hi-fi store and he'd often have kids come in who'd come into a bit of money and wanted to buy a kick-ass system. He'd tell them to come back with a couple of their favorite records to demo, and invariably they'd come in with something like Oasis, and wonder why it sounded better on their cheapo stereo back home 

    James
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