AnsweredHaving quite a few issues with Sonar X2a

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fHumble fHingaz
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2013/06/10 00:22:28 (permalink)

Having quite a few issues with Sonar X2a

Hi all,  I'm having some problems with Sonar X2a and was wondering if anyone might be able to help
 
The first, most annoying one is that when I close some of my projects without saving (which I often do if I want to just check something I did in a mix & leave it untouched), it freezes.  I have to close Sonar down completely.  Then it refuses to open again until I shut my computer down & restart.  Having said that, I can open X1 (or some other DAW I have installed) in the intervening period, work on it for an hour or so, then X2 will open again.
 
Another issue is audio dropouts that occur in specific sections of songs.  Now, these are not due to lack of CPU power - as you can see from my details below, I have a powerful computer, & I'm running at a latency of 1280 samples for mixing.  I have worked out that the dropouts are occurring due to conflicts of some kind happening in the clips in my project.  For example, I will usually clean up, or time-align clips by breaking them up into smaller pieces - these usually have crossfades on them where they start & finish & join together. Sometimes I can remedy the problem by bouncing them down to one clip.  However sometimes, they refuse to bounce down & I get an error message.   
 
These problems only started occurring in X2, & have continued with X2a - I ran X1 on the same computer with relatively no problems.  It seemed to open much faster too.
 
I really love many of the improved things in X2, but these issues are becoming very time-consuming & frustrating.
 
Here are my details:
OS: Win 7 Professional 64 bit (Service Pack 1)
Processor: Intel Core i7 2600CPU @ 3.40GHz 3.4GHz
RAM: 16GB
Interface: M-Audio ProjectMix I/O
Also running a UAD2 Solo PCI Card for some plugins.
 
Thanks in advance!

https://fytakyte.bandcamp.com/
https://soundcloud.com/coldroom-studio
 
 
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    robert_e_bone
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    Re: Having quite a few issues with Sonar X2a 2013/06/10 01:42:50 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby fHumble fHingaz 2013/06/11 07:31:13
    Can you please detail any error messages you get?  Your post indicated sometimes you are getting a message)
     
    Also, I certainly do not know if this applies, but I found this on the UAD site:
     
    "due to plug-in host differences between DAWs — and our own rigorous testing standards — Universal Audio only officially tests and qualifies the latest UAD software with:
     
    Avid Pro Tools 10
    Apple Logic Pro 9
    Steinberg Cubase 6.5 and Nuendo 5.5
    Ableton Live 8.4 and 9.0.2"
     
    Can you perhaps (just for an experiment), temporarily remove the UAD stuff and retest?  I am wondering if any of the above may apply.  I am just trying to isolate your issues, that they may be better diagnosed.
     
    In addition to the above, I had looked into the 'hanging Sonar' issues you describe, where Sonar won't open after closing, and all of that.  It seems that quite often, in those cases, one or more Sonar-related task was still running, even after Sonar itself was closed.  This seems to be often where Bitbridge is still out there, and it apparently goes away after a while, and using Task Manager to kill it also seems to work.
     
    So, in the projects you are having trouble with - particularly the ones that exhibit the behavior above, are you using 32-bit plugins (either effects or synths)?  If so, just for testing can you try to swap those out for 64-bit plugs?  Again, I am just trying to isolate the issues.
     
    I found an example in the FAW section of the UAD site, where there stuff works with one release of Cubase but not a newer one, and am wondering if this kind of thing may be occuring with your UAD stuff and X2a - versus it working fine in X1:
     
    "
    Q: Will UAD version 7 work with Steinberg Cubase 7 and Nuendo 6?
    A: We are working directly with Steinberg to resolve a Cubase 7 and Nuendo 6 issue with UAD Powered Plug-Ins and we currently do not recommend using these hosts with any version of UAD software. UAD Powered Plug–Ins version 7 is fully qualified with Cubase 6.5 and Nuendo 5.5.
    The issue: Sample rate and/or buffer size errors can occur when using UAD plug-ins and Cubase 7/Nuendo 6 is set to anything other than a sample rate of 44.1 kHz and an I/O buffer setting of 1024. After the error occurs, the UAD plug-in does not process audio and "disabled" does not appear in the UAD Toolbar, so there is no way to determine if the plug-in is functioning (other than listening to it).
    Note: If Cubase 7/Nuendo 6 are constrained to use only the 44.1 kHz sample rate AND the 1024 I/O buffer size, UAD Powered Plug-Ins may work, but again these hosts are unqualified and are not supported."
     
    Bob Bone
     

    Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!"
     
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    #2
    fHumble fHingaz
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    Re: Having quite a few issues with Sonar X2a 2013/06/10 23:18:42 (permalink)
    Hi Bob,
     
    Thanks for your reply - I really appreciate you taking the time.  In fact, I tried to reply yesterday, but the Cakewalk forum repeatedly crashed & so I lost all the stuff I typed.
     
    Just to clarify, I don't get the message when the project drops out - it simply stops playing...
    To remedy this problem, I have to find the wave file sections that are causing playback to stop & then re-bounce them down. The error message that I get when I try to bounce certain cut up tracks down is "Internal Error".  I'm not bouncing down the tracks with processing - just bouncing the raw tracks down.  The plugin processing remains independently adjustable.  It seems, when I find the culprits that are causing the problem, I have to re-bounce the sections down individually rather than as "batches", otherwise I get the "internal error" message.  Once I find & rebounce the culprits, the project plays without stopping.
    Can you perhaps (just for an experiment), temporarily remove the UAD stuff and retest?  I am wondering if any of the above may apply.  I am just trying to isolate your issues, that they may be better diagnosed.
    I will give this a try - UAD has never given me issues before, but it's worth looking into. 
     
    In addition to the above, I had looked into the 'hanging Sonar' issues you describe, where Sonar won't open after closing, and all of that.  It seems that quite often, in those cases, one or more Sonar-related task was still running, even after Sonar itself was closed.  This seems to be often where Bitbridge is still out there, and it apparently goes away after a while, and using Task Manager to kill it also seems to work.
    Ok, tha makes sense - I'll try that. 
     
    So, in the projects you are having trouble with - particularly the ones that exhibit the behavior above, are you using 32-bit plugins (either effects or synths)?  If so, just for testing can you try to swap those out for 64-bit plugs?  Again, I am just trying to isolate the issues.
     
    I'm using both 64 & 32 bit plugs, so bitbridge could be causing some problems.
     
    Thanks again.
     

    https://fytakyte.bandcamp.com/
    https://soundcloud.com/coldroom-studio
     
     
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    stevec
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    Re: Having quite a few issues with Sonar X2a 2013/06/11 00:26:07 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby fHumble fHingaz 2013/06/11 07:31:43
    Do you see any improvement if you decrease latency?  With your system I'd imagine you should be able to try using something significantly lower just to test. 
     
    Also, how does your disk and RAM usage look?
     

    SteveC
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    robert_e_bone
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    Re: Having quite a few issues with Sonar X2a 2013/06/11 04:52:53 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby fHumble fHingaz 2013/06/11 07:35:04
    I saw a small number of prior threads posted on the internal error message, and they did not seem to end up resolved, so unless it ends up as one of the things I suggested earlier as possible reasons for your woes, I am out of ideas.
     
    I look forward to your posting back on the results of the additional things you were going to try.
     
    Bob Bone
     

    Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!"
     
    Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) 
    Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22
    Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64
    Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others
    MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es
    Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms  
    #5
    fHumble fHingaz
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    Re: Having quite a few issues with Sonar X2a 2013/06/11 07:38:03 (permalink)
    Do you see any improvement if you decrease latency?  With your system I'd imagine you should be able to try using something significantly lower just to test. 
     
    Also, how does your disk and RAM usage look?
     
    Thanks Steve, I'll try reducing latency & see what happens.  I'll check out disk & RAM - I don't seem to recall having a problem with either, though.
     
    I saw a small number of prior threads posted on the internal error message, and they did not seem to end up resolved, so unless it ends up as one of the things I suggested earlier as possible reasons for your woes, I am out of ideas.
     
    I look forward to your posting back on the results of the additional things you were going to try.
     
    Bob Bone
     
    Thanks Bob, that's good to know - I'll try it & get back.

    https://fytakyte.bandcamp.com/
    https://soundcloud.com/coldroom-studio
     
     
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    wizard71
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    Re: Having quite a few issues with Sonar X2a 2013/06/11 09:13:58 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby fHumble fHingaz 2013/06/13 08:14:47
    Sonarpdr.exe still a running process after sonar has crashed? If so then I believe that is a soundcard driver issue, especially if its M-audio.

    http://www.youtube.com/SpaceTimeAces
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    fHumble fHingaz
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    Re: Having quite a few issues with Sonar X2a 2013/06/11 09:35:11 (permalink)
    wizard71
    Sonarpdr.exe still a running process after sonar has crashed? If so then I believe that is a soundcard driver issue, especially if its M-audio.



    No, Sonar X2 will not re-open after it has crashed (until I re-start the computer) - the soundcard however, still works with other DAWs that I have installed on my computer (eg. Sonar X1, Reaper, Mixcraft 6) immediately after Sonar X2 has crashed without the need to restart.  
     
     

    https://fytakyte.bandcamp.com/
    https://soundcloud.com/coldroom-studio
     
     
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    wizard71
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    Re: Having quite a few issues with Sonar X2a 2013/06/11 09:55:59 (permalink)
    Well if its not sonarpdr.exe being open still that stops the restart of sonar then I'm clueless, sorry. AFAIK it's because sonar after crashing does not always release the audio drivers. Whether or not this affects any other version if sonar opening I wouldn't know.

    Good luck

    Bibs

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    Sonar Platinum - Win 8.1 x64 - Haswell 4770k - ASrock Z87 pro3 - 32gb ram - Fractal design R4 case - 3x HDD 1 USB 2.0 external 1x cr M4 ssd for samples - Octa-capture - Sontronics Aria - Sontronics STC-1s - BX8 monitors - ARC 2 system - Kawai CA63 piano - Kawai MP6 Stage piano - Fender custom Telecaster FMT - Yamaha LL6 - Fender P bass


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    stevec
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    Re: Having quite a few issues with Sonar X2a 2013/06/11 13:40:54 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby fHumble fHingaz 2013/06/13 08:14:30
    fHumble fHingaz
    No, Sonar X2 will not re-open after it has crashed (until I re-start the computer) - the soundcard however, still works with other DAWs that I have installed on my computer (eg. Sonar X1, Reaper, Mixcraft 6) immediately after Sonar X2 has crashed without the need to restart.  
     
     


    I think Bibs meant that SONAR may be still running in the background; i.e., in Task Manager.  If so, that would prevent it from loading up using the shortcut.  Apparently MAudio drivers have a tendency to lock the SONAR executable under certain conditions, even if other apps are able to access the drivers after the fact.
     

    SteveC
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    http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=39163
     
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    Focusrite 18i6 (ASIO);
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    brconflict
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    Re: Having quite a few issues with Sonar X2a 2013/06/12 10:50:55 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby fHumble fHingaz 2013/06/13 08:14:26
    One thing I noticed when dropouts occur at the same place every time is that there's new clips starting up during the song, and I have a sudden increase in plug-in CPU consumption because 4 or 5 CPU-intensive plug-ins are being "kicked-in". In this case, I simply freeze the track, so that it will go ahead and calculate all plug-in processing for complex tracks (especially those with lots of Lanes). That helps me reduce or eliminate the expected drop-outs.

    Brian
     
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    Studious
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    Re: Having quite a few issues with Sonar X2a 2013/06/12 15:33:52 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby fHumble fHingaz 2013/06/13 08:14:20
    fHumble fHingaz Hi all,  I'm having some problems with Sonar X2a and was wondering if anyone might be able to help
     
    The first, most annoying one is that when I close some of my projects without saving (which I often do if I want to just check something I did in a mix & leave it untouched), it freezes.  I have to close Sonar down completely.  Then it refuses to open again until I shut my computer down & restart.

     
    I also sometimes experience the freeze/crash when closing projects.  I don't reboot, I just kill the sonar process (and sometimes the dreaded bitbridge process) and I can again open Sonar.  I've also been experiencing other Sonar crashes and the intructions from tech support was to do a full uninstall/re-install.  Will be doing this later .
     
    P.S. Be sure to check the Windows Event log (Application section) to get details on your crashes.  It may help you find the root issue, and it's useful info to give to tech support, if you choose to contact them
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    markyzno
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    Re: Having quite a few issues with Sonar X2a 2013/06/12 16:35:05 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby fHumble fHingaz 2013/06/13 08:14:14
    stevec
    fHumble fHingaz
    No, Sonar X2 will not re-open after it has crashed (until I re-start the computer) - the soundcard however, still works with other DAWs that I have installed on my computer (eg. Sonar X1, Reaper, Mixcraft 6) immediately after Sonar X2 has crashed without the need to restart.  
     
     


    I think Bibs meant that SONAR may be still running in the background; i.e., in Task Manager.  If so, that would prevent it from loading up using the shortcut.  Apparently MAudio drivers have a tendency to lock the SONAR executable under certain conditions, even if other apps are able to access the drivers after the fact.
     




    Correct
     
    I can confirm this first hand.

    Sonar Platinum 64 bit > Pro tools 10.3.2 >Intel i7 3770K > 16Gb Ram > Gigabyte Z77-D3H Motherboard> NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660 2 GB > ATi RADEON HD5700 > 240GB OCZ Agility 3 SSD> Win 10 home 64 bit> Delta 1010 > MOTU Audio Express > MA-15D's > NI Ultimate 9 > NI Kontrol S61 1.1 > NI MAschine Studio 2.3 / KORG MS-20 Mini - Arturia MicroBrute > KORG SQ1 - KORG Kaoss Pad KP3 > iPad and IO Dock 2 running various bits > Bunch of guitars >

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    SilverfoxUK
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    Re: Having quite a few issues with Sonar X2a 2013/06/12 18:41:00 (permalink) ☼ Best Answerby fHumble fHingaz 2013/06/13 08:47:32
    +1.
     
    Used to get this alot when I had crashes with my M-Audio keyboard plugged in.
     
    little tip for you: try 'logging off' and 'logging back on' in windows, much faster than rebooting

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    #14
    fHumble fHingaz
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    Re: Having quite a few issues with Sonar X2a 2013/06/13 08:14:55 (permalink)
    Ok, thanks for the help everyone! - you've given me a lot to check out.

    https://fytakyte.bandcamp.com/
    https://soundcloud.com/coldroom-studio
     
     
    #15
    fHumble fHingaz
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    Re: Having quite a few issues with Sonar X2a 2013/06/13 08:49:45 (permalink)
    little tip for you: try 'logging off' and 'logging back on' in windows, much faster than rebooting
     
     
    Thanks - This worked really well!

    https://fytakyte.bandcamp.com/
    https://soundcloud.com/coldroom-studio
     
     
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    karma1959
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    Re: Having quite a few issues with Sonar X2a 2013/06/13 09:28:58 (permalink)
    +1 on audio drivers not being released as something to check out for this symptom - I've had this as well historically, but with a different audio interface.  Once a new version of their driver came out, the issue was resolved completely.
     

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