Headroom in and gain staging in X2

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KeeblerElf
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2012/12/17 12:04:10 (permalink)

Headroom in and gain staging in X2


My tracks usually peak anywhere between -6 to -3 db, which is fine on tracks, but of course the master buss gets overloaded. My question is, is it okay to just turn the trim  on the master down so it peaks at around -6 db, or should I mix everything so that the master stays well below 0 without turning down the gain? Or does it even make a difference?

Thanks :)

Did you spill something on your keyboard, or are you just happy to chat with me?
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    KeeblerElf
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    Re:Headroom in and gain staging in X2 2012/12/17 12:05:41 (permalink)
    To be sure, I'm not touching the master fader, which I always keep at 0. I'm talking about the gain knob (some people call it trim) in the channel strip.

    Did you spill something on your keyboard, or are you just happy to chat with me?
    #2
    Bristol_Jonesey
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    Re:Headroom in and gain staging in X2 2012/12/17 12:08:57 (permalink)
    Theoretically You can get good results from just turning down the master fader, but I would always go back to the tracks and make sure the master - set at 0dB - is only peaking to about -9dB

    Don't worry about the lack of "loudness" at this stage

    You should be aiming to peak no higher than about -9dB - or lower - when tracking.

    Make sure you're recording at 24 bit, not 16

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    SuperG
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    Re:Headroom in and gain staging in X2 2012/12/17 14:01:10 (permalink)
    KeeblerElf


    My tracks usually peak anywhere between -6 to -3 db, which is fine on tracks, but of course the master buss gets overloaded. My question is, is it okay to just turn the trim  on the master down so it peaks at around -6 db, or should I mix everything so that the master stays well below 0 without turning down the gain? Or does it even make a difference?

    Thanks :)


    -6db peak is okay for tracks, as you point out. There is no problem with tweaking the gain on a bus to dial it in. The signals that arrive on a bus are summed together, and that is why they peak over limit.


    You may want even more attenuation on a bus if that is to be the final output. Many people use the K-system as their guideline for final mix levels.

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    AT
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    Re:Headroom in and gain staging in X2 2012/12/17 14:15:27 (permalink)
    When mixing you start from the master fader (bus) backwards.  If you recording tracks are hitting -3 dB (which is pretty loud and might include overs) you need to pull your channel faders down rather than mess w/ the master bus.  Theortically there is nothing wrong w/ pulling down the trim, but it is better practise to pull down your channel faders.  That is why they are called faders.  In the old days of analog you had trim knobs so you could set the hardware fader around 0 where it had the most precise movements - or most movement w/ the least amount of vol change for setting levels and riding levels.

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    Bub
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    Re:Headroom in and gain staging in X2 2012/12/17 14:27:06 (permalink)
    KeeblerElf

    My tracks usually peak anywhere between -6 to -3 db, which is fine on tracks, but of course the master buss gets overloaded. My question is, is it okay to just turn the trim  on the master down so it peaks at around -6 db, or should I mix everything so that the master stays well below 0 without turning down the gain? Or does it even make a difference?

    Thanks :)
    I keep my levels around -18db on each track. Doing that leaves you enough room to adjust your effects properly. If your signal is too hot, you could be getting saturation from say, the PC-Tube Sat Knob without every moving the knob up.

    Try a test some time ... enable the PC-Sat Knob and leave the knob all the way down, and then turn the trim way up on your track. It's the same as turning the Sat Knob up. So, in my opinion, it's best to start with a lower signal so you can make those adjustments on the VST.

    Just an observation, but it seems that the default settings of some effects seem to be based on having a -18db input.

    I always set my levels using the meters in the control panel of my sound card. I adjust the levels externally with my pre-amp's and outboard compressors so that all my level sliders are at 0db, but I'm capturing a -18db signal.

    Even with my tracks at -18db, I try to keep the level at my Master around the same so I can add mastering effects and have plenty of room for limiting.

    You don't want your master at 0db. You need to leave room for mastering effects and limiting.

    This is how I do it, but I don't think there are any set rules.

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    drewfx1
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    Re:Headroom in and gain staging in X2 2012/12/17 15:10:47 (permalink)
    From a purely technical standpoint, there is absolutely nothing wrong with just reducing the bus input-level/trim.

    But some people don't like this approach from a "mixing strategy" point of view.

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    m4thlab
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    x 2012/12/17 17:11:42 (permalink)
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    post edited by m4thlab - 2012/12/18 15:18:18
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    KeeblerElf
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    Re:Headroom in and gain staging in X2 2012/12/17 17:13:03 (permalink)
    drewfx1


    From a purely technical standpoint, there is absolutely nothing wrong with just reducing the bus input-level/trim.

    But some people don't like this approach from a "mixing strategy" point of view.


    That's really what I was asking ... about the technical aspects of doing it this way. When I said that all my tracks peak at -3db, that's a bit misleading. I'm referring to the loudest parts, such as the kick drum. Of course there are tracks that rarely go past -18db, say a string part for example. Anyway, I was just wondering if there was any impact on the audio when using the gain knob on the master vs. lowering all the track faders. I don't care about "strategy" or "standard practice".

    Thank you :)

    Did you spill something on your keyboard, or are you just happy to chat with me?
    #9
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