Helix Native at 96k - Wow! (1ms total round-trip latency with Presonus Quantum)

Posted this on The Gear Page... but wanted to share it here:
 
Recently picked-up a Presonus Quantum (audio interface)... as I was looking for something that had ultra low round-trip latency. 

Using Studio One v4, I loaded Helix Native... and created a patch based on the "Placater" (Friedman BE100).

• Set the Placater model's gain to 8 and the tone controls pretty much flat
• Loaded a stereo pair of my own Cab IRs
• Enabled a Reverb

Wow! The sound was stellar. No extensive tweaking/etc...
I owned Helix Floor for about 2 years. 
Was pretty happy with it, but I don't remember it sounding/responding this good. 
In literally a couple minutes, I had a Marshall style heavy-crunch tone that played/sounded as good as (if not better than) any of the top-tier modelers. I've owned them all...

With the Quantum set to 32-sample ASIO buffer size/96k, total round-trip latency was 1ms.
Super tight timing... and audio completely glitch-free.
Have to give mad respect to Line-6!  (Not for the low RTL but for the sound)
What started as more of a stress-test for the Quantum... ended up totally throwing a monkey-wrench in my work-flow. 
I don't know if it's the 96k sample-rate, the A/D D/A on the Quantum (good but not amazing), or the 64Bit double-precision float summing in Studio One... but Helix Native sounds/responds incredibly good.

Note:
You've got to have a fast machine to effectively run this type of load at 32-sample ASIO buffer size.
This machine was running a 8086k with all six cores locked at 5GHz.
 
The Quantum reports Round-Trip-Latency accurately. 
RTL was confirmed using RTL Loopback Utility (Oblique Audio). 

• 93-samples
• 0.93ms

It's not just Studio One.  

• You can do the same in Reaper (CPU use is significantly lower in Reaper).
• You can do the same in CbB.
• You can do the same in Cubase v9.5 (CPU use i higher)

ProTools 12 won't let you use an ASIO buffer size smaller than 64-samples when working at 96k.
 
What Presonus did with Studio One v3.5+ is implement a "Hybrid buffering" scheme.
Tracks that are merely playing back are processed with a larger buffer size (much more CPU efficient).
Tracks that need to be monitored in realtime are processed with small buffer size (low round-trip latency).
Best of both worlds...
 
BTW, "Hybrid buffering" is nothing new.
Logic did this *years* ago... as did Samplitude. 
 

Wow, indeed!

Hey Jim. I have owned a 44VSL since getting my DAW going here (6 years now). My roundtrip at 128 samples 24bit 48khz. is 7.3ms.
I'm starting to think about upgrading my interface because it is no longer supported, and Cakewalk will not work here with Win 10 (7 still works just fine) at all.
Got any advice?
I'm glad to hear you're digging Helix. I still use a Amplifire 6, or S-Gear.

Genghis
Hey Jim, how do you find the Quantum interface compares to the RME UFX+.  On paper it looks pretty nice and a whole lot cheaper. The main advantage I see with RME is that it goes with USB3 or Thunderbolt 2.  Since I got the upgraded laptop with Thunderbolt now, that part really doesn't matter so much.

Hi Genghis,
 
The Quantum's forte' is lowest possible round-trip latency.
It has zero onboard DSP for mixing/routing.  Thus, all monitoring has to be done via software. 
There's also no means of (internal) loopback recording... you have to physically patch S/PDIF output>S/PDIF input or do the same with Lightpipe.
Otherwise, there's little to criticize.  The converters sound pretty good (especially at ~$900).
The ASIO buffer size can be set as low as 16-samples. 
Right now, machines aren't capable of sustaining much of a load a 0.5ms total round-trip latency.  
But... the setting is there.  As machines get faster, you'll ultimately be able to run at 0.5ms total round-trip latency.  
 
Presonus chose to strip Quantum down to the bone.
It's simple to use, the drivers are rock-solid, and it yields super low round-trip latency.
 
There's nothing to dislike about the Fireface UFX+ (other than the ~$2800 cost).
Total-Mix is extremely flexible.  If you want/need onboard hardware based monitoring, this is a major advantage over Quantum.
If you're moving the interface between machines, the Fireface UFX+ supports both USB and Thunderbolt connection.
 
As far as the onboard preamps, I'm going to call that a wash.
Both are neutral sounding... and yield pretty decent results.
If you're used to higher-end outboard preamps, they're not going to be at that level of quality.
 
For those who want lowest possible round-trip latency, it's hard to beat the Quantum (especially at ~$900).

thepianist65
Gonna seriously consider this as my next upgrade, was looking at upgrading my MOTU interface with another MOTU, but this is intriguing to me. More for the money, it seems. Any comparison with say, MOTU 624 (Thunderbolt 3 and USB 3) or other MOTU devices. Or RME UCX or UFX? Thanks.

Fidelity wise, I'd say it's pretty much a wash between the MOTU 624, Quantum, and Fireface UCX/UFX.
The onboard preamps are also a wash.  All are neutral sounding, will do reasonably well... and are reasonably quiet.
Quantum has zero onboard DSP for monitoring/routing.
Both MOTU and RME offer extensive routing, onboard DSP for EFX/processing, and hardware based monitoring.
Quantum has a very slight edge when it comes to lowest possible RTL.
MOTU and RME Thunderbolt units all have onboard DSP.  That increases RTL by a very slight amount.
MOTU and RME have the advantage of connection via USB or Thunderbolt.  Quantum is Thunderbolt only.
MOTU and RME both offer excellent RTL performance when connected via USB (but not quite as low as Thunderbolt).
 
You really can't make a bad decision with any of the above.
If you absolutely want onboard (hardware based) monitoring... or internal loopback recording, that rules out Quantum.  If lowest possible RTL is a primary concern... and your other needs are simply I/O, the Quantum offers great bang-for-the-buck.
 

I do use the 44 with USB 2.0, and have my monitors and headphones plugged into it. I don't use any outboard gear. Everything is inside the box.
 

I couldn't afford/justify a RME Fireface 400 when they came out. But I bought a used one within the last year or so and am surprised at how well this thing still operates.

I now see why it costs so much. It's an older unit that has no DSP on it. But the routing options and ability to get low latency when recording is the best I have ever had.

And RME is still putting out updated drivers for it.