NeckHumbucker
Max Output Level: -86 dBFS
- Total Posts : 202
- Joined: 2007/07/30 11:21:11
- Status: offline
Help a long-time Sonar 6 user getting started with Sonar x3
Hi there,
I have been happy with Sonar 6 for a long-time, recently bit the bullet and upgraded to X3.
Wow. X3 is a different animal. It doesn't feel like Sonar anymore, it is a completely different DAW. Feels like I am trying to adapt to a new DAW. Well, I'll push through, I am sure It'll get better...
I have a couple of simple tasks that I can't seem to complete with success, if you guys can help me overcome the difficulties that would greatly appreciated.
1. Bounce to Clip: I made a comp in a track that spans over several take lanes. It plays back the way I want it. But when I bounce it to clip starting points of each audio clip moves. I wouldn't say quantized, but it is something like that. I turned off snap , but result still the same. Same thing happens even if I select the comp only and export. In Sonar 6, bounce to clip creates an identical audio. It is so identical, when I play it back with the original with phase inverted, they'd cancel each other out.
What's happening here? Oh, I stretched some of the audio clips in the comp about 120%.
2. Take Lanes: Is there way to set them up and use them like layers in Sonar 6? Take Lanes decides so much on my behalf, I don't like that.
Thanks,
Nick.
|
Fog
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 12302
- Joined: 2008/02/27 21:53:35
- Location: UK
- Status: offline
Re: Help a long-time Sonar 6 user getting started with Sonar x3
2015/02/24 19:19:09
(permalink)
it is a big change, but you can get various videos to speed things up , karl does some for SWA (?) and there is the groove3 ones Eli did. yes both cost, but they will also save you a lot of time.
|
Steve_Karl
Max Output Level: -50 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2534
- Joined: 2003/11/06 20:53:26
- Location: Pittsburgh, PA USA
- Status: offline
Re: Help a long-time Sonar 6 user getting started with Sonar x3
2015/02/25 07:42:59
(permalink)
NeckHumbucker
2. Take Lanes: Is there way to set them up and use them like layers in Sonar 6? Take Lanes decides so much on my behalf, I don't like that.
I'd like to find that one also. Take lanes are really annoying to me compared to layers.
|
dcumpian
Max Output Level: -34 dBFS
- Total Posts : 4124
- Joined: 2005/11/03 15:50:51
- Status: offline
Re: Help a long-time Sonar 6 user getting started with Sonar x3
2015/02/25 08:20:19
(permalink)
Particularly for midi work. I like take lanes okay for audio though.
Regards,
Dan
Mixing is all about control. My music: http://dancumpian.bandcamp.com/ or https://soundcloud.com/dcumpian Studiocat Advanced Studio DAW (Intel i5 3550 @ 3.7GHz, Z77 motherboard, 16GB Ram, lots of HDDs), Sonar Plat, Mackie 1604, PreSonus Audiobox 44VSL, ESI 4x4 Midi Interface, Ibanez Bass, Custom Fender Mexi-Strat, NI S88, Roland JV-2080 & MDB-1, Komplete, Omnisphere, Lots o' plugins.
|
pentimentosound
Max Output Level: -60 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1535
- Joined: 2005/08/15 23:37:34
- Location: Honor, Michigan
- Status: offline
Re: Help a long-time Sonar 6 user getting started with Sonar x3
2015/02/25 08:46:55
(permalink)
Did you bounce your stretched clips first? Before bouncing them all to one? That might be why they are out of sync.
Regarding going from 6 to x3.
I went from 5.2 to X1, then immediately X2 and then didn't get anywhere, but more and more frustrated! LOL
I ended up at X3 and now I'm at Platinum and still "catching up". The biggest help to me, getting over being so lost(!), was the little CW Quickstart booklet and even more so the Quickstart card! I started looking at it a lot and then felt way less "dis-empowered". There are so many options now that CW has grouped them and you have to know where to "reach" for "what". That is the biggest step; understanding how the tools are grouped, now.
I bought a bunch of CW, SWA, and Craig Anderton videos. Like Fog, I find Groove 3 has really been useful! I got a free CW deal and then started a monthly subscription, which was so rewarding that I jumped on their $99/year All Access Pass for the past 2 years. They have videos on almost everything (other vendors) I own and now they even have lessons for various instruments. Cool!
AND... I still have to have a copy of Scott Garrigus' Sonar Power book handy. That has been my main path of learning since he started writing them!
Michael
|
Anderton
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14070
- Joined: 2003/11/06 14:02:03
- Status: offline
Re: Help a long-time Sonar 6 user getting started with Sonar x3
2015/02/25 09:41:35
(permalink)
☄ Helpfulby Steve_Karl 2015/02/25 15:49:25
NeckHumbucker
2. Take Lanes: Is there way to set them up and use them like layers in Sonar 6? Take Lanes decides so much on my behalf, I don't like that.
You may find this article helpful. Take Lanes lose some of the functionality of layers, but the tradeoff is comping that's off the hook wonderful (once you figure it out, which took me a few tries - the tutorial on speed comping is what did it for me). And yes, the X-Series is a different DAW, so sorry to say there is a learning curve. However, the time you lose climbing that curve now will be more than compensated for in the future once you become familiar with the program. Pre-X-series versions feel quirky and inefficient once you get comfortable with X-series versions.
|
garrigus
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 8599
- Joined: 2003/11/05 17:23:21
- Location: www.garrigus.com
- Status: offline
Re: Help a long-time Sonar 6 user getting started with Sonar x3
2015/02/25 09:51:42
(permalink)
|
pentimentosound
Max Output Level: -60 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1535
- Joined: 2005/08/15 23:37:34
- Location: Honor, Michigan
- Status: offline
Re: Help a long-time Sonar 6 user getting started with Sonar x3
2015/02/25 10:55:11
(permalink)
They have indeed, Scott! I keep it handy and look up questions I see here or on your DigiFreq forum to spread out my thinking. There are always alternative paths and whatever I don't use, might still lead me somewhere, new. I know I have habits/preferences and there are certainly areas I may never use in Sonar, but I like knowing there are other options and how they work. It gives me "to be explored" places.
Michael
|
NeckHumbucker
Max Output Level: -86 dBFS
- Total Posts : 202
- Joined: 2007/07/30 11:21:11
- Status: offline
Re: Help a long-time Sonar 6 user getting started with Sonar x3
2015/02/25 13:19:21
(permalink)
Thank you all for tips, advise and encouragement. I am watching/reading as many tutorials as I can. But can't stop thinking I might as well migrate to another DAW. I like Studio One.
When I first started with Sonar, I fit me like a glove, when I needed something I'd right-click and bamm it was there, it was a lot more intuitive than other DAWs I tried at the time such as Cubase. But I feel it lost its intuition for me.
Hopefully I'll regain my confidence soon.
Michael, I'll try bouncing stretched clips first. Is there a global audio quantize setting?
Anderton: That's the first article I read. Helped a little. but new take lane requires a chance in work style
Another question I have: in Sonar 6 if snap is set to 1 measure, and if I copy a clip that, say, starts on 1:01:480, and paste it somewhere else it'd start on X:01:480. But in X3, it snaps to 1st beat to start X:01:000
What am I missing?
As for take lane, my first impressions are terrible. It decides so much on my behalf, that's how I feel. When I select a clip and move it with arrow keys, it deletes everything on its way. It is so annoying. Because moving with arrow keys has advantages over mouse as it obeys to snap setting.
I think I'll use track folders for now to get the work done.
|
williamcopper
Max Output Level: -68 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1120
- Joined: 2014/11/03 09:22:03
- Location: Virginia, USA
- Status: offline
Re: Help a long-time Sonar 6 user getting started with Sonar x3
2015/02/25 14:06:03
(permalink)
Over-zealous snap/quantize is another feature of X series that bothers me. Just like you: I want a quantize sometimes, but I also want to cut a specific range and paste at a specific point. Instead of "paste", using "paste special" works better for most purposes. But you have to mouse up to the menu, or set and remember a new key command to get that option by default.
|
Beepster
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 18001
- Joined: 2012/05/11 19:11:24
- Status: offline
Re: Help a long-time Sonar 6 user getting started with Sonar x3
2015/02/25 14:16:18
(permalink)
williamcopper
Over-zealous snap/quantize is another feature of X series that bothers me. Just like you: I want a quantize sometimes, but I also want to cut a specific range and paste at a specific point. Instead of "paste", using "paste special" works better for most purposes. But you have to mouse up to the menu, or set and remember a new key command to get that option by default.
Turn off Snap (press N) or Change your Snap Resolution. You can also set the Snap "magnetic strength" lower in Preferences (press Shift + N to open snap preferences).
|
bapu
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 86000
- Joined: 2006/11/25 21:23:28
- Location: Thousand Oaks, CA
- Status: offline
Re: Help a long-time Sonar 6 user getting started with Sonar x3
2015/02/25 14:21:40
(permalink)
Beepster
williamcopper
Over-zealous snap/quantize is another feature of X series that bothers me. Just like you: I want a quantize sometimes, but I also want to cut a specific range and paste at a specific point. Instead of "paste", using "paste special" works better for most purposes. But you have to mouse up to the menu, or set and remember a new key command to get that option by default.
Turn off Snap (press N) or Change your Snap Resolution. You can also set the Snap "magnetic strength" lower in Preferences (press Shift + N to open snap preferences).
Beeps beat me to it. 
|
pentimentosound
Max Output Level: -60 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1535
- Joined: 2005/08/15 23:37:34
- Location: Honor, Michigan
- Status: offline
Re: Help a long-time Sonar 6 user getting started with Sonar x3
2015/02/25 14:36:33
(permalink)
I guess those are the "closest answers" regarding audio quantize. If that's available now, I've never heard of it/used it. I would bet on the Snap settings. You can right click on the Snap button (in it's tool bar) and go right to Snap settings or in Preferences under Snap to Grid. I'd check those settings first before deciding on another DAW. Michael edit**** I had read about it , in Sonar Power, but never used Audio Quantize. At the time it seemed uninteresting, now I can think of a use for it.
post edited by pentimentosound - 2015/02/25 16:33:05
|
williamcopper
Max Output Level: -68 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1120
- Joined: 2014/11/03 09:22:03
- Location: Virginia, USA
- Status: offline
Re: Help a long-time Sonar 6 user getting started with Sonar x3
2015/02/25 14:48:00
(permalink)
Thanks. Don't know about the OP, but the notion of "magnetic quantize" for a mouse click seems kind of pointless. In sonar 5, I constantly turned on and off quantize, probably hundreds of times in a 3-4 hour input session, in the PRV. It was right there in the view, a short mouse move away, so I never even felt the need to hunt up a key command. But getting used to the "N" shortcut will probably come in time ...
|
Beepster
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 18001
- Joined: 2012/05/11 19:11:24
- Status: offline
Re: Help a long-time Sonar 6 user getting started with Sonar x3
2015/02/25 15:10:46
(permalink)
williamcopper
Thanks. Don't know about the OP, but the notion of "magnetic quantize" for a mouse click seems kind of pointless. In sonar 5, I constantly turned on and off quantize, probably hundreds of times in a 3-4 hour input session, in the PRV. It was right there in the view, a short mouse move away, so I never even felt the need to hunt up a key command. But getting used to the "N" shortcut will probably come in time ...
There IS a Snap area in the PRV. It's the little blue (if on) grid in the upper right corner. Bonus: You can set up your PRV Snap resolution for MIDI differently than the Track View PRV by using that. Also I'm pretty sure you can change snap res using the HUD (the pop up tools bars... press T). Seems to me you just need to spend some time familiarizing yourself with how Sonar works these days. It is very different than before. Go through the tutorials at the start of the manual then click through to more advanced topics when you are done. The turorials take like 20 minutes for a seasoned user to do. This is what we refer to as "pilot error".
|
Beepster
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 18001
- Joined: 2012/05/11 19:11:24
- Status: offline
Re: Help a long-time Sonar 6 user getting started with Sonar x3
2015/02/25 15:14:54
(permalink)
Also I HIGHLY recommend Karl Rose's SWA video series on X2/X3. It goes on sale from time to time. Snag it and it'll show you where pretty much everything is.
|
NeckHumbucker
Max Output Level: -86 dBFS
- Total Posts : 202
- Joined: 2007/07/30 11:21:11
- Status: offline
Re: Help a long-time Sonar 6 user getting started with Sonar x3
2015/02/25 15:15:26
(permalink)
Thank you again. I'll look at the snap/magnetic settings.
In my case, turning off snap completely is not an option, because I want it to snap. Say, I have an audio clip that I sliced somewhere between beats, and I want to copy it a few more times else where in the timeline. In Sonar 6, I'd press ctrl and click on the clip and move the mouse, and I can visually see while I am dragging, it snaps to same spot between the beats in every bar I am dragging over (given snap set to one measure). In X3, it doesn't snap completely, it looks like it snapped, but when I wiggle the mouse it changes its snap location.
This is very frustrating, because I don't feel confident that it snapped where I'd think it should. then I go to every clip I copied and check their starting point, and they are all over the place.
|
Beepster
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 18001
- Joined: 2012/05/11 19:11:24
- Status: offline
Re: Help a long-time Sonar 6 user getting started with Sonar x3
2015/02/25 15:22:00
(permalink)
NeckHumbucker
Thank you again. I'll look at the snap/magnetic settings.
In my case, turning off snap completely is not an option, because I want it to snap. Say, I have an audio clip that I sliced somewhere between beats, and I want to copy it a few more times else where in the timeline. In Sonar 6, I'd press ctrl and click on the clip and move the mouse, and I can visually see while I am dragging, it snaps to same spot between the beats in every bar I am dragging over (given snap set to one measure). In X3, it doesn't snap completely, it looks like it snapped, but when I wiggle the mouse it changes its snap location.
This is very frustrating, because I don't feel confident that it snapped where I'd think it should. then I go to every clip I copied and check their starting point, and they are all over the place.
I'm not sure what you mean. If you have placed it where you want why are you wiggling the mouse with the button still pressed? Also if things seem to be snapping in weird place check to makesure you do not have snap set to "Landmarks" and or check whether you have it set to Move To or Move By. Snap is actually kind of complex beyond the basic functionality. Once you get into those other Snap modes things can get a little weird if you don't know what's up. Take a good look at the Snap Preferences dialog as well (where the magnetic strength is set). There's a bunch of other cool (or not so cool if it is set wrong) stuff in there that controls snapping. Cheers.
|
Beepster
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 18001
- Joined: 2012/05/11 19:11:24
- Status: offline
Re: Help a long-time Sonar 6 user getting started with Sonar x3
2015/02/25 15:25:32
(permalink)
☄ Helpfulby Steve_Karl 2015/02/25 15:52:25
Oh and this may be obvious but you gotta watch your selections using Ctrl. Sometimes you hang on to previous selections so when you do something with your new selection the old ones get moved to.
I am CONSTANTLY hitting Ctrl + Shift + A to be CERTAIN nothing else is selected as I work. I absolutely hate when I accidently screw something up because I neglected to clear previous selections.
Probably not your issue but perhaps so I think I'd mention it.
|
NeckHumbucker
Max Output Level: -86 dBFS
- Total Posts : 202
- Joined: 2007/07/30 11:21:11
- Status: offline
Re: Help a long-time Sonar 6 user getting started with Sonar x3
2015/02/25 16:28:47
(permalink)
Thanks Beepster.
To your question about wiggling: because it wiggles tiny bit left or right, and I can't be sure which one is the right one. In Sonar 6, it doesn't wiggle with mouse, but jumps to prior or next bar.
"Landmark" could be it. I use many markers, assume those would count as landmarks.
Oh yes, I hate too when previously selected stuff is moved too. I also hate when previously selected tracks get deleted. You know the blue marker on track title.
|
pentimentosound
Max Output Level: -60 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1535
- Joined: 2005/08/15 23:37:34
- Location: Honor, Michigan
- Status: offline
Re: Help a long-time Sonar 6 user getting started with Sonar x3
2015/02/25 16:39:02
(permalink)
Back to jumping several versions at once.
Everything has more options nowadays, including Snap, so it is imperative to find where the bakers have moved/grouped things. That seems to be the main difference between then and now; way more options/functionality and grouping of tools.
|
Beepster
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 18001
- Joined: 2012/05/11 19:11:24
- Status: offline
Re: Help a long-time Sonar 6 user getting started with Sonar x3
2015/02/25 16:44:08
(permalink)
Hmm... Sounds like maybe you have your snap resolution set to very small increments maybe or you have the Smart Grid snapping enabled (which makes your snap res change as you zoom in or out... I find it annoying).
You should be able to snap like you are describing from S6. If you want it to land on the Measure lines right click the Resolution drop down in the Snap Module and select measures (or whatever you want). While you are in there check to see if Smart Grid is enabled. If it is it will have a checkmark beside it so click it to disable it.
Now Snap will follow only what you tell it to instead of changing all the time as you zoom.
Sorry if that's not your issue but it's worth mentioning. Smart Grid was a new feature in X2 I believe.
Cheers.
|
Anderton
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14070
- Joined: 2003/11/06 14:02:03
- Status: offline
Re: Help a long-time Sonar 6 user getting started with Sonar x3
2015/02/25 19:11:47
(permalink)
You might want to disable "snap to audio zero crossings" in preferences NeckHumbucker
Say, I have an audio clip that I sliced somewhere between beats, and I want to copy it a few more times else where in the timeline. In Sonar 6, I'd press ctrl and click on the clip and move the mouse, and I can visually see while I am dragging, it snaps to same spot between the beats in every bar I am dragging over (given snap set to one measure).
Do you have "Move to" intesad of Move By" selected instead? Or maybe I don't quite understand what the problem is, snap works as expected for me.
|
annifarkle
Max Output Level: -88 dBFS
- Total Posts : 136
- Joined: 2007/01/06 22:47:05
- Location: The Seattle area
- Status: offline
Re: Help a long-time Sonar 6 user getting started with Sonar x3
2015/02/26 02:59:02
(permalink)
Don't let the learning curve stop you from using Sonar. I started with CW with Pro Audio 8 and went through a lot of incarnations. Once you learn to use X3 you will be a very happy camper. Things get smooth and quick. And once you've let go of reaching for the familiar place things were in S6 and learned the new spots you won't look back with any fondness. X3 is so much more powerful than S6. Hang in there NeckhumBucker! 
|
FastBikerBoy
Forum Host
- Total Posts : 11326
- Joined: 2008/01/25 16:15:36
- Location: Watton, Norfolk, UK
- Status: offline
Re: Help a long-time Sonar 6 user getting started with Sonar x3
2015/02/26 03:03:50
(permalink)
Beepster
Also I HIGHLY recommend Karl Rose's SWA video series on X2/X3. It goes on sale from time to time. Snag it and it'll show you where pretty much everything is.
Thanks for the recommendation Beepster. For the OP - There are also some helpful freebies on my Youtube page. Link in my sig.
|
Steve_Karl
Max Output Level: -50 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2534
- Joined: 2003/11/06 20:53:26
- Location: Pittsburgh, PA USA
- Status: offline
Re: Help a long-time Sonar 6 user getting started with Sonar x3
2015/02/26 03:15:29
(permalink)
|
FastBikerBoy
Forum Host
- Total Posts : 11326
- Joined: 2008/01/25 16:15:36
- Location: Watton, Norfolk, UK
- Status: offline
Re: Help a long-time Sonar 6 user getting started with Sonar x3
2015/02/26 03:33:43
(permalink)
|
NeckHumbucker
Max Output Level: -86 dBFS
- Total Posts : 202
- Joined: 2007/07/30 11:21:11
- Status: offline
Re: Help a long-time Sonar 6 user getting started with Sonar x3
2015/02/26 11:53:24
(permalink)
Thanks again for suggestions and encouragement to stay on course.
Michael: Timing anomalies in bounced was caused by stretched clips. I first bounced the individual stretched clips, then bounced the whole selection. First step of bouncing did the same timing anomalies, but second did produced the exact audio. I guess that's reasonable. Because I'd guess algorithms for real-time rendering and offline bouncing are different. Thanks for help.
Beepster: Turning off Smart Grid was one of the best things. Thanks.
Anderton: I haven't checked "move to/by". I will. Let me try to explain my problem more accurately.
I've done a couple of tests. But I still can't get the following behaviour work:
Here are the settings. Smart Grid off, Snap set to 1 Measure (not whole note, because time signature is 9/8, whole note isn't equal to one measure)
Say I have a sliced clip that starts at 10:01:240
In Sonar 6, if I copy it by ctrl+drag to next bar, it lands at 11:01:240
In X3, it lands at 11:01:000
In X3, I have to copy it and then nudge it, this works clip start on a nudgable grid like :240, but doesn't work if it start at something random like :233
or I have to stretch the beginning of the clip to 10:01:000, then copy it over.
If I have 10 clips in 10 tracks to be copied 20 times, it becomes tedious.
Thanks.
|
Beepster
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 18001
- Joined: 2012/05/11 19:11:24
- Status: offline
Re: Help a long-time Sonar 6 user getting started with Sonar x3
2015/02/26 11:57:23
(permalink)
To do that switch to "Snap By". That will move the clip in increments of 1 measure so it should land right where you want. "Snap To" will snap it to the actual measure.
Cheers.
|
NeckHumbucker
Max Output Level: -86 dBFS
- Total Posts : 202
- Joined: 2007/07/30 11:21:11
- Status: offline
Re: Help a long-time Sonar 6 user getting started with Sonar x3
2015/02/27 12:43:41
(permalink)
Yes, that's it! Thank you! I feel embarrassed now. Because I looked at those settings. I have to review each setting one by one and see their effect.
I have one more question: How can I make Soft Synth Folder Template?
In a new project, I customized 8 audio and 8 midi tracks for a soft synth. I'd like to be able to save it, and insert it in other project when I need it.
Thanks again.
|